Who are they, and how did they came into being ? Are they born again Jews(i.e. Jews accepting the Christian faith)?? Are they acceptable according to the CCC ?

I like their way of worship very much. I have heard a lot about them, they call Jesus as Yeshua, and their ways of practising the Christian faith is very much like the Jews. They also observe some of the OT festivals, like the festival of harvest, Sukoth.

Your opinions.

Peace & Blessings

-- Xavier (xavier_david24@yahoo.com), May 31, 2002

Answers

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-- Xavier (xavier_david24@yahoo.com), May 31, 2002.

Xavier:
Every soul is ''acceptable''-- and every soul, as the catechism will inform you, is to hear the Holy Gospel of Jesus Christ and embrace it. That is the way of salvation.

I have read only one paperback book titled ''Jews For Jesus'', Yeshuah. We've conversed with one or two individuals here on forum in the past, who claimed to have accepted Yeshuah as the real Messiah.

Whatever the Catholic Church says about sects that accept the Gospel, it must necessarily present them the truth. Being Jewish is not a requirement for salvation. One faith, one hope and one gospel means the life Christ gives us all in His Church.

Because He only founded the One Church, which we know as the Catholic Church. Messianic Jews are not entitled to arrive at the truth (Jesus is the Messiah), and then ignore His Holy Church. Being ''born again'' in itself is Holy Baptism. That is the scriptural definition, which many self-absorbed individuals fail to see. Baptism is first and foremost the sacrament of rebirth given by Christ to His Church.

Yeshuah is the author and SOURCE of Holy Baptism. He sent His apostles to all the nations, telling them to baptise all men; and that means Jews, Gentiles, men, women, free or slave. When you consider what ALL MEN signifies, we see baptism and the Church who first administered baptism as Universal. --which means Catholic. All men are made Catholics by Baptism. All the baptised are ''born again''. Messianic Jews are also called to hear the Gospel and be baptised as Catholics. Whether they see it this way in these new movements, I can't say. They are rejected by ''orthodox'' Jews; as turncoats. In the Church they would be instantly accepted.

We hope this will eventually happen. Therefore, I believe all of us should PRAY for them. God certainly loves each one of these people, and God is who has opened their eyes now to the glory of His only-begotten Son; Jesus Christ--Messiah and Lord.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), May 31, 2002.

One paperback only??

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), May 31, 2002.

One book, Jean. A good one, filled with individual testimonials of many who were devout Jews and came to the realization that Yeshuah is indeed the promised Holy One of Israel.

We might read forty such books and not see the immense importance of Israel, the chosen people, as Christ sees them. It's better to read each individual's personal story; the way he came to believe, and the love he now gives Yeshuah his Saviour.

Yet, I will only get enthused when I see the entire nation of the people of Israel, coming to the Messiah en masse. It will happen someday. He knows the day and the hour.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), May 31, 2002.

Eugene - that day will never come for they have alrady arrived in the Father who promised them their own land. Judiac beliefs I feel are one of the Many Mansions of the Father as told us by Christ.

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), May 31, 2002.

Many mansions never referred to this life. It is a prophesy of Christ's about the rewards of the next life. You have misconstrued the Scripture.

The land of Israel is altogether another promise-- We know that they've returned to the land of the prophets. But until they recognise the Holy One, they are awaiting the true promise of God. Jesus is going to descend in majesty and power right back to the Garden of Olives. The Nation of Israel will be there as ONE, to greet Him. We will be the Church-- and they shall be in the Catholic Church. It is written.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), May 31, 2002.

Eugene - It is obvious we have chosen seperate journeys here. I am one believes Heavens gift are here with us with total fulfillment after entering the portal.

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), June 01, 2002.

Yes, and I believe in the actual meaning of words spoken by the Son of God. Pardon my saying: If you find ''total fulfillment'' in the world, I feel sorry for you. We are both body and soul, Jean. The body will return to dust. The soul goes back to its Creator.

Fulfillment is eternal; with Christ and His Almighty Father, the Holy Spirit-- and your blessed ancestors --Catholics all, and the angels and saints. In heaven there are Many Mansions. In the world is suffering and trial. Go on, write a song about that.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 01, 2002.

Oh Eugene - To think the wonderful creation of this world with all it's beuaty is being held in check by yourself and others. You make me think of the " Little Prince " title of a book in which he lived a very samll planet whre he was able to simply move his chair to face the setting sun whenever her wished. Kind of a little life it appeared.

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), June 02, 2002.

You give me too much credit, Mon Ami;

I can't hold the world's beauty or even the world's misfortunes in check. I only offer THANKS through Jesus Christ for the wonders of this Creation. I offer prayer up to Him, that His mercy be on those who are lost and have no hope. I'm not just talking about the poor and homeless. Many are indulging themselves in all the comforts and conveniences of this life; and losing their immortal souls. Some are in the power of the devil. For these also we must pray.

When I see a man in danger of losing his soul, my instinct is to step BETWEEN him and the devil. I want him to turn away from the devil. Not to please me. To save himself; and to give glory to Jesus Christ. Such a man is Jean Bouchard. He hasn't yet lost his soul. I hope he never does.

I'm glad, thankful; that JB opened up to us here and revealed his animosity toward the Catholic faith. It's good to confess. Now you must see your error.

In having admonished and corrected you, I wasn't serving myself-- my own rules and my own dogma. You are who I'm serving. It is your spiritual life that is important. It isn't important that I win any argument.

I would rather be put to shame and yet have you look into your conscience, and attend the words of Jesus Christ. You have lost all your scruples; and soon you'll lose what conscience you still own. Then your immortal soul. All because no one can speak to you with authority.

It was Satan who first said, ''Better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven.'' I hope that fixation isn't already permanent in your psyche.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 02, 2002.

Eugene - You make me laugh - I should refer to you with all your knowledge holiness and mighty scepter as Your Horseship.

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), June 02, 2002.

Thanks, Bouchardemon,
''I came, I saw, I conquered''. Lol!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 02, 2002.

I think I'm confused. wasn't the topic the background and beliefs of messianic jews, not who is the better person at insulting one another? Can we please get back to the subject? Messianic jews believe in the complete bible;old and new testaments. The earliest messianic jews were, of course, at the time of christ/Yeshua. The current movement began in the late 60's and early 70's during the J us movement. in fact,most of the current leadership came from that time period. Hope this helps.

-- michelle fleming (michelleimom@aol.com), December 21, 2002.

I know a few "Jews for Jesus" who are born again, but have never seen any in the Catholic Church - only protestant churches.

Maybe they are in our church, but I do not know any...and, yes, they are considered turncoats by other Jews.

ML

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), December 22, 2002.

I know a Jewish convert, to Catholicism, and that person is completely Catholic. Not born again, or Jews for Jesus, but strictly Catholic.

-- ed Richards (loztra@yahoo.com), December 22, 2002.

Dear Bretheren in Yeshua Hamassiah! Shalom I read your board and I thought I have to enlight this world as our Yeshua yes your and mine Yeshua because this is His real name in hebrew because He born as a jew and died as a Jew Messiah as was prophesized all over the Old Covenent before His physical birth as was also predicted by the prophets of Israel. and King David's psalms.The so called Church did not replaced Israel but Israel of today has to come to her own Meshiah Yeshuah. I'm from Israel and I'm Messianic Jew since 1962 when we were only a handfull jews in Israel believe in Him today they have 69 Messianic Congregations in Israel. God works in His Mysterious way. Love of God with you and if anyone like to know about this subject I'm more than happy to e- mail you your request just e-mail me shalom josi

-- Joseph Godlove (josephforchampio@aol.com), April 19, 2003.

Dear Joseph:
It's very kind of you to contact us; thank you.

Did you know, Sir, that the Holy Catholic Church not only adores Jesus Christ (Yeshuah Messiach--?) in the divine sense of adoration and worship; but also reveres many great souls who were born faithful to the Covenant of Moses, and rejoiced at the coming of this Man, the Holy One of Israel?

They were Jews in the highest sense of the word; sent to the nations as carriers of the Good News of salvation. Our first Pope, Peter (born Simon Bar Jonah) was a Galilean fisherman. Paul of Tarsis was born Saul the Pharisee, and studied at the feet of Gamaliel. These two were martyred in Rome in the early years of the Catholic Church.

We love and revere the holy mother of Yeshua, Our own Mother. No one has to tell you she was chosen over all women to become the mother of the Son of God. We honor her as Mother of God. The most Blessed Virgin Mary (Miriam, in your house.)

In His last days, Yeshuah gave all men a New Covenant; to endure forever and keep us for His own.

This is a Covenant in His own blood; who is the Lamb of God foreshadowed in Egypt to the Israelites. Moses was indeed showing his people the ''type'' in a spotless lamb given up for the Passover; whose blood protected the people of God during the passover of the Lord. The lamb was a figure of Jesus Our Savior.

Jesus Yeshuah fulfills on the holy cross the promise of salvation foreshadowed on the night God struck the Egyptians. The blood of Jesus is our salvation from the angel of death. He is the true Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

This is revealed from the beginning to the Church of the Apostles; who learned at the feet of Yeshuah. No other revelation is greater in the history of the world. We live for Him; and He will gather us all at last into one flock under One Shepherd. In the world it will be his apostle Peter. In His eternal kingdom, all will be one in union with Him. He reigns at the right hand of the Amighty Father; and lives within our hearts by the Holy Spirit. Yeshuah revealed for his Church the interior life of Yahweh; Father, Eternal Son, and Holy Spirit ONE God. Of all the mysteries hidden from before time began, this is the most profound and holy one. Yeshuah, the only-begotten Son of God shared it with His loved ones. His Church. He is Love incarnate; and laid down his life for you and for us. I hope you'll remain here for a time, and let us show you all the depth of the Catholic faith. We also are ''Messianic''; through Him also heirs to God's promise made to Abraham our spiritual father. God bless you-- Shalom!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), April 20, 2003.

Dear fellow forumites,
Over a few months now, the robot has not been able to forward my emails out of this site. I'll be getting an error message in my email to tell me no one is receiving the above post in their email. Since I'm not that cumputer literate, I'm afraid this visitor, Joseph the Messianic Jew will never see my reply. Unless he returns here. Maybe someone can forward my post? Just asking. Thanks.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), April 20, 2003.

Gene, I think that you are misunderstanding the messages that you are receiving. I get them too -- one for every post I leave here. I suspect that everyone else is getting them too. I believe that the reason is the following, though perhaps someone will correct me ...

The former moderator has things set up so that, whenever anyone posts a message, a copy is forwarded (by "robot") to an e-mail address he set up (Catholic_Moderator@hotmail.com). Now one of two things is probably true, and I think that it is the second:

(1) Free "hotmail" e-mail account storage is very limited, so it quickly fills up if a lot of messages come in and no one is there to move or delete them. It could be that no one has been maintaining the InBox of Catholic_Moderator@hotmail.com, so it is full and cannot accept "robot" messages. ... OR ...
(2) Due to the illness of the former moderator, no one accessed the Catholic_Moderator@hotmail.com InBox and folders that the "hotmail" system canceled the account completely and deleted it.

Either way, we get rejection messages from hotmail, over and over again.
I believe that our new moderator can fix this by preventing the Greenspun "robot" from trying to send copies of messages to "Catholic_Moderator@hotmail.com".

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), April 21, 2003.

Oops! #2 was supposed to read as follows:
(2) Due to the illness of the former moderator, no one tried to access the Catholic_Moderator@hotmail.com InBox and folders for such a long time that the "hotmail" system automatically canceled the inactive account and deleted it.

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), April 21, 2003.

Jesus did not die so that you could commit idolitry with Mary and saints and the remains of dead mens bones he came to atone for sins and to allow a relationship with the father. For Mary to hear all of the prayers she would have to like God be everywhere at once and this is something that not even Arck Angels could do. While you banter over the question are Messianic Jews really Christian you should look at the fourth century mixture of paganism with christian tenants that Constantine the not so great gave to us. You will not enter into heaven doing just the opposite of what scripture records.

Read the book of Acts notice that Paul offered sacrifices and was in every way a Jew. If this is confusing to you go to Acts 20 and notice what his peer's say about him.

I have noticed though that folks outside the will of God are hostile to what is recorded so this will most likely fall on deaf ears.

-- Alvin Crofts (n2messiah@popmail.com), December 28, 2003.

Alvin,
Catholics don't worship Mary or any saint as a deity. Catholics do not worship anyone but God.

From the Catholic Catechism:

957 Communion with the saints. "It is not merely by the title of example that we cherish the memory of those in heaven; we seek, rather, that by this devotion to the exercise of fraternal charity the union of the whole Church in the Spirit may be strengthened. Exactly as Christian communion among our fellow pilgrims brings us closer to Christ, so our communion with the saints joins us to Christ, from whom as from its fountain and head issues all grace, and the life of the People of God itself":

We worship Christ as God's Son; we love the martyrs as the Lord's disciples and imitators, and rightly so because of their matchless devotion towards their king and master. May we also be their companions and fellow disciples!

If you would like to do further reading on this subject, I recommend Fr. Mateo's Refuting the Refuting the Attack on Mary.

In Christ,
Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@hotmail.com), December 28, 2003.