As you guys have seen, Adam has kindly invited me to Scotland for some very serious hunting. I personally sincerely hope everything works out, and that I will get there.

Now: My own average range for shots at deer-sized game (and moose) has been about 70-80 yds. Some longer, most shorter. Some really close. Now I wonder (and this goes out to all you fellas out there that hunt deer, antelope or whatever on open plains or in the mountains) what distances should I take into count when going hunting in the Scottish highlands?

Reason I ask is because Iīd shurely like to switch bullet weight (.30 cal) from 150 to 165 grns to better match the 168 Sierras I shoot at the range.

How far has YOUR average shot/s been in open terrain?

Per

-- Balltip (ace.rimmer@spray.se), May 30, 2002

Answers

In 32 years of regular red deer hunting in northern Scotland, where I live, I have never attempted a shot at more than 200 yards maximum (except when I have spotted a previously wounded animal and had to take a long shot to put it out of its misery). 150 yards is much more typical. That is my favourite zero when setting up a rifle for reds on the open hills. The 7x57 Mauser and the .270 Win. have probably accounted for more Scottish reds than all other calibres put together. Nothing more powerful than the .270 is needed, and many regulars get excellent results with the .243 Win. (A minimum 100gr bullet is a legal requirement for all deer other than roe.)

Roe are basically woodland animals, and 90 per cent of those I have shot have been at less than 100 yards. In Scotland we are allowed to use centrefire .22s on roe, and the .222, .223 and .22-250 are all popular and entirely adequate. (Elsewhere in the UK, a minimum calibre of .240 is mandatory for all deer species.)

Enjoy your trip! Colin

-- Colin McKelvie (traquai@aol.com), August 19, 2002.

Seems I might be as well off with my old load. I have a hard time finding room for any serious loading developement right now. 2― weeks left of my vacation, a shop to build and then smithschool until end of may next year.

But I wonīt swear on it!

Per

-- Balltip (perna90@hotmail.com), July 31, 2002.

i put one down at 300 metres with an L96 the biggest drama i found is that there are no man made objects around to gage distance on

-- dave (Dwimbush@aol.com), July 29, 2002.

Hi Per,I only started deer stalking last year and my first kill was a Fallow Doe.It was a heart shot taken at 120yrds with a 100gr .243, and since then i`ve made my average shots 120-150yrds on the hill.

-- ALAN.H.BURDEN (alan@patricksofcamelon.com), July 27, 2002.

Hello Per, Swap to the 165's mate, they will be less affected by the wind and be more decisive when they hit. The only possible draw back anyone has mentioned is high levels of meat damage... but the statement that 165grn bullets on roe deer will make "most of the carcase unedible" is simply not true. I have shot plenty of roe with the 165 ballistic tip in my 0.308win and never had a carcase refused or price reduced due to damage. A quick trip out the back of the game dealer to look in the scrap bin after they've just had a busy run will be very informative (infact, when you're over here we will do just that). Basically the entire ribcage gets chucked out after the backstraps have been filleted out, so a shot that enters the ribs, crosses the top of the heart and the lungs and then exits through the ribs, is going to damage nothing that a game dealer is interested in. There is no doubt that the exit wound is slightly larger, but that is because there is more material going into fragments which exit around the main permanent crush cavity. The 165 and 150 btip have the same shank, they increase bullet weight by extending the front part of the parallel section and keeping the same nose ogive. Over the sorts of ranges and impact velocities we are talking about with your 30-06, we should see 40-50% weight loss and full penetration....which is just about ideal for thin-skinned game (non-dangerous and dangerous too). Forget about so-called "energy deposit" in the animal.....you need a big hole that goes right through and hits vital organs and blood vessels on the way. I am really happy when my bullet deposits most of its energy into the safe back stop behind the animal. Consider this....a 100 grn "plain vanilla", cup jacket, soft-nosed bullet, at less than 100 yds from the .243 on an oblique shot through the shoulder may suffer a jacket separation and not get all the way into the vitals, possibly requiring a second better placed shot when the animal has moved. It did however "dump" all its kinetic energy. To know the energy "dumped" we need to know how much mass and velocity the bullet loses. If it does not exit it has dumped the lot. Now consider the same shot taken with my 7mmRemMag and a 150grn Partition. It will lose around 20-30% of its mass and still be doing over 2000 ft/sec as it leaves the far side of the animal......it actually "dumps" far less energy (velocity squared remember). However the effect on the animal is most likely to be a drop where he stood. Infact, for the sake of science, I took a roe buck last Saturday with exactly this combination at 145m ... he fell where he stood and died in mid mouth full. Wound profile was not much different from what a friend produces with his .243 and ballistic tips. Don't worry about bringing loads of ammo over with you.....just enough to not upset the Customs people. But bring your dies and a similar number of prepped un-primed cases. We can do the rest in an evening. Adam . . . out

-- Adam (fireforcefour@yahoo.co.uk), June 28, 2002.

The average distance to shoot deer in Scotland is 150-175 yards with 200 yards not unusual. A good deer stalker should be able to get within 100-150 yards of his target. A 165 grain bullet will do a lot of damage to a Roe Deer and make most of the carcass unedible. Most deer in the U.K / Scotland are fairly small and a calibre like .243 of 25-06 with a 120 grain bullet is more than exceptable. I use a .270 calibre with a 130 grain soft point and find it very usefull at ranges up to 300 yards (on a shooting range), I wouldn't consider a shot over 200 yards at a live target.

-- Dereck Cook (user875651@aol.com), June 24, 2002.

Open terrain, plains, walleys and mountains. But that is for the red deer hunt. Invitation also mentions roedeer, pheasants and goose. Hmm... Might decide on that combo gun Iīve mentioned before instead. Ainīt a lazer beam, the 7x57R. But with a 150 grns bullet, it should do just fine out to 250 yds. Wich is my own absolute max distance for shots at game anyway (under calm conditions, that is.) Shame I ainīt got it yet. Will be at leat another month. But with a Zeiss 2,5-10x50 it should be a dream to shoot. And without the scope, shotgun barrel would work fine for those birdies as long as I donīt bother with long shots.

Per

-- Balltip (ace.rimmer@spray.se), June 04, 2002.

Congrats on the hunt per. Well whats the terrain like in Scotland are there trees at all or just lots of grass and mountains or flat lands? In Oregon we have all sorts of areas in the mountains. I'd probably say about 350 would be about your max but you could push it a bit..just gotta watch the wind especially over the ravines and canyons and draws. Your 165's should do just fine. Have a great time. Jon

-- Jonathan Casper (shadowspy_51@hotmail.com), June 03, 2002.