Trouble with your pesky mother-in-law? Romance problems got you down? Ask away and, surely, one of your fellow MATHletes can help you out.

-- Anonymous, May 28, 2002

Answers

What do ya do when a guy you like who didn't want a relationship tells you he was joking about wanting to mess around then being a jerk about the whole thing cause I believed he liked me despite the commitment issues?

Yes, this has been on my mind since Sunday; I seem to make it worse by telling him he should have been honest. now he thinks we should not speak.

Thank you MATHlete's if y'all can give me some advice to at least salvage things...where we can talk again without all the animosity.

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2002

Whoops; I sort've turned from second to first person...my bad. I do that alot :D I think y'all get what I was trying to ask though

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2002

Have you ever had to negotiate the whole "I'll call you" thing with a friend? Because I have one I just met recently who makes every indication that she'll get in touch with me, or agrees when I say, "Call me," and then doesn't. A week ago she said her boyfriend was in town and she thought he and I might get along, so I said, "Okay, call me if you want to have dinner or something." I haven't heard a peep from her and he's only in town for a few more days. And since it's just a friendship I feel silly making a fuss over it, but at the same time I'm insecure enough to wonder if she actually wants to hang out with me or just doesn't say no when I call.

As for Amber -- ooh, that sucks, and you have my sympathy. Have you read Sars's piece on wigging? Because she says "What the fuck, dude?" better than I ever could.

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2002

WG - I am in no way trying to defend your friend for her rudeness, but since I am very often guilty of the SAME rudeness, I can only say that it is not you, it's her. I am the worst at calling people when I am supposed to, something AB Chao will testify to with a mighty shout. It's not that I don't love my friends, it's just that I am lazy or something. I have no idea, and I am not making excuses, but it's one of my most deplorable personal traits. I am trying to get better about it, but it has taken many people say "DAMMIT, you said you were going to call me and you did NOT," throughout my life.

Amber - What you do in that situation is Reverse the Whip. Meaning: ignore him within an inch of his life. Don't call, don't write. If he wants to be around you, he'll have to adjust his behavior, which is currently unacceptable. If he doesn't call and ackrite, you'll know that it wasn't worth your time to worry about it in the first place.

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2002

So I shouldn't take it personally that you didn't call me, Al? :-)

Seriously, there are two issues here. One is her not calling, and the other is me being insecure, because I have been piss-poor at making friends up here. Because the last conversation we had was along the lines of me saying, "I thought we were going to hang out tonight," and her saying, "I know, I'm sorry, but my boyfriend's getting into town and I have to get ready -- hey, you two would probably get along," and me saying, "Okay, cool, I won't bug you, just let me know if y'all want to get together for dinner." And having said I won't bug her, I can't, you know, bug her. Unless I can, if you see my logic.

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2002

WG, don't look for "logic" -- you cannot call. Now that you have said "I won't bug you," you can't. And, I can't apologize either... I am in the Allison category, the Friend That Doesn't Call Back. It's totally inexcusable, but I can testify that you simply have to wait her out.

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2002

I am 27 and fairly certain I dont want to raise kids. Any advice on how to gently inform a new girlfriend that I feel this way? (not that I have one, I just want to be ready) Or should I hold off, and let the relationship develop before skipping WAY ahead...?

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2002

PG and Al, good ladies -- I guess my question is, since this is a very new friend, at what point do I vote for either "oh, that's just her, I shouldn't take it personally" or "well, I guess she actually doesn't want to hang out with me, then"?

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2002

WG, that's a tough one. With that new friend it's a fine line between "Should I give her another chance or am I just being a chump?"

I would say just hang back and let her initiate the next time. If there is no "next time", you have your answer. And I don't mean to speak as the Not-Calling Girl, like you should let yourself be walked all over because you are more considerate than the likes of me... I just would hate to see you be peeved/irritated/wondering-if-you-have- B.O. just because this girl is inconsiderate.

Brian: in re: how long to wait before talking about kids, I recommend 37 seconds.

This is some exaggeration, but not much. Kids as a concept is not a weird subject; it's not like on the first date with Dream Girl you would be talking about what cute babies you're going to make together, and "by the way, can we start practicing right now?"

IMHO, that's the kind of thing that shouldn't be taboo... especially because in my mind, it's a deal-breaker and I know women who feel the same way. I could never get serious about, or allow myself to fall in love with (at this age, as opposed to high school and college when it didn't matter), a man who didn't want children. I would want to know right away what his feelings were on that topic, so I could gauge my own level of the emotional Heisman.

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2002

What do you think is the best way to figure out someone's salary and credit history, besides going through their bills and wallet when they're not home?

Because yes, the guy with the Jag is cute, but how does he afford what he's driving? And the guy with the huge house across the way is pretty hot, but is he in miles and miles of debt? How do you figure out if someone has solid finances, I guess is what I mean.

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2002

Yeah, I would present the I-don't-want-kids thing fairly early on, and in a way that makes it clear you are not looking for the "right" situation. Because your hypothetical lady will have to take that into account -- she may decide she doesn't want kids, either, but if she definitely does and you definitely don't, that's an issue that's not going to go away.

It may also depend on how serious you are and how old she is. If she's 22, she may not have made up her mind yet; if she's 27, she's more likely to know. Early enough that you don't know if you're going to see her again is probably too early, but once it's definitely been established that you two would like to keep seeing each other, it should be out on the table.

And PG -- thanks. Partly it's that I've had bad luck with female friends this year (entirely outside the confines of MATH+1, I should add) and that's probably contributing to my getting all Whiny McInsecure in this particular siutation.

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2002

Ask him. Look in his face to see if he's lying or not. The web is full of resources that can help you observe and learn

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2002

Keli - To figure out his finances, all it takes is a couple of dates. Find out what he does. Then you can guess at the salary he makes. Knowing that, see whether he charges everything while you're out. Never trust a guy that charges everything - he doesn't know how to handle money (sorry if any of you are like that). The bottom line is that it doesn't matter whether he has money or not. The bottom line is whether he spends it. If he's living in a huge apartment and has a Jag, etc., you can pretty much guess that he's living beyond his means. I mean, first year lawyers, for example, make a lot. But we don't make enough to buy Jags.

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2002

Jessa - I'm curious why you think someone who charges everything has trouble handling money? I use my charge card a lot and I have zero debt and never carry a balance. I just find the charge card to be more convenient. Plus, if I misplace a receipt I can always get proof of purchase from my credit card company. If I'm buying a $3 magazine? Sure, cash then, but if it's over $10 or so I use my Visa.

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2002

Keli, I also like to play the "401K game", in which I feign helpless feminine ignorance at all that number-crunching investment stuff. It's easy to bring up. Imagine any conversation where "e-mail" is mentioned, and fake an opening. Witness:

"Hey, my friend sent me an e-mail about how it's a great time to get into a Roth IRA. I replied, 'what do I look like, Charles Schwab?' and she said that it's like a 401K, sort of? Have you ever heard of this thing?"

It all lies in his answer. Even if he doesn't know about that particular IRA, he'll usually reveal his level of knowledge about the 401K. You can learn oodles about a person (and their finances) by what he/she knows about retirement planning. Unfortunately, the "401K Game" doesn't work so well in the opposite direction.

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2002

WG - thanks for the TN link ...I hadn't read the archives since I started reading and that one was just what I needed; I was amused :D

Al - thanks! yeaaaah, the last time he decided he didn't want to talk, I didn't say anything to him for a week and he just started talking again; at that point I had other prospects though, so it was easy to ignore him. I s'pose I'll attempt not to say anything in my lj either, cause though we haven't *spoken* since Sunday, he's replied to posts I made there and he's been talking to my friends who copy and paste stuff to me...sheesh

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2002

No Kids Discussion? Before you have sex with her.
How Solvent/Fiscally Aware is He? The more money he has, the less it shows in obvious ways. The more he flashes the money around, the less likely it is he really has any. If he refers to his car as 'his jag', his credit card as 'his gold card' and his suit as 'his Armani' he is probably 10 minutes from filing for bankruptcy.

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2002

I have to disagree with the credit card watching tidbit. In the age of debit cards, I don't know anyone who uses cash anymore.

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2002

Debit cards, in my opinion, are a lot different than credit cards. I mean, it comes right out of your account, so it's like using a check. I'm dealing with lawyers mostly anymore. So, generally, you know that a male lawyer my age has a hundred grand in debt and when you see him with the jag, charging the pack of cigs on a regular basis, it tends to be a sign of something else.

I also have a severe credit card bias. I grew up poor and was trained in the "you don't buy unless you can afford it right now, except for house and car" school of thought. Not for everyone, but I think I'd have constant problems in a marriage where I was always waiting nervously for the charge bill.

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2002

My own bias would be that more than one of any type of card, say you have three Visas and two MasterCards, is possibly a sign that you start new cards to avoid the debt of the old ones. And I tend to think as someone who doesn't use credit cards that often (and almost never carries a balance) and I still have five cards that I can count off the top of my head -- MC, American Express, Discover, and two store cards. So I'm not sure that's a good yardstick on my part.

Really, I don't think there's a good way to tell. I'm Snoopy Snooperton, so I would've found out that my boyfriend is carrying some debt eventually, but it was better in the long run that he told me (fairly early on).

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2002

I am going to skip right over this credit card talk. Ahem.

WG - I would suggest calling your friend once her boyfriend is out of town. As you know, it's easy to get wrapped up in your man when you see him rarely and I'm sure her not calling has to do with that, not with you. Plus, I know with me, I start to feel really guilty when I haven't called someone back, which then makes me put off calling them even longer and I'm super relieved when they finally contact me. That's pretty crappy behavior, but true nonetheless.

Amber - Allison is wise in the ways of reversing the whip. Listen to her. You need to write this jag off. I know it sucks, and that you might be tempted to call/email him to ask "What the F?" but don't.

-- Anonymous, May 29, 2002

That should be "I tend to think of myself as someone."

Because I was at the office very late last night. Carry on.

(Or, related advice question: how do you stop yourself from procrastinating endlessly?)

-- Anonymous, May 30, 2002

Guess what? hah. he apologised last night. funny since I was just getting over it and then there he is ...I'm just glad that is over with for now (as long as it doesn't happen again seeing as we went right back to flirting at first....ugh).

WG - stop from procrastination? set a time to do the things ya have to do. like say "at exactly 7pm I will finish this up" or whatever. it works for me. having a routine is a good way to accomplish things. also don't play online games...once I spent half a day doing that and wondered where all the time went...hahah

-- Anonymous, May 30, 2002

I'm new here, but I've read Hannah Beth's entire journal so I belong...

Q: the guy i am going to marry has beyond-messy habits. we live together and we have separate bedrooms/bathrooms for just this reason. his room is not just clothes-on-the-floor messy, there are cardboard boxes full of junk everywhere, trash, papers, old computers, etc. you cannot walk across the floor. his bathroom is 10x worse. it looks like a bathroom you'd see in a raid on cops.

when we first met he said that his last girlfriend had given him guff about his room and that had hurt his feelings so i told him, hey, i'm not like that, its your room, your life, your vagina, whatever. big mistake, because now i have to stick to that.

but now that we are getting married, i have to wonder how we'll ever share the same space. i am not about to be his maid, but i don't want to be the rule-maker/nag either. i'm all for personal space and independence in a relationship.

so i'm worried that we'll never be able to share the same space. if we have a kid, do we all 3 have our own rooms? that seems freakish.

i certainly don't want to hurt his feelings, and i don't want tostart down a path where i am telling him what to do, but i am disgusted by his room. it makes me embarrassed for him. what would you do?

-- Anonymous, May 30, 2002

Sara: I'm new too, but I'll weigh in. It seems sort of unfair to you to just have him keep the doors to his rooms shut, although that might be a simple solution to the problem. Not to get all woo-woo therapy on you, but maybe you could, one evening after a lovely dinner, mention gently that while you respect his lack of enthusiasm for being nagged, you'd like to talk to him about how you're going to deal with the differences in your...standards. I mean, you live together, you're getting married, it's not like it's just going away, even if you do shut the door. Maybe you could mention that your discomfort with his mess rivals his discomfort with being nagged about it, and that you'd like to come to some sort of something about how to handle it. Ask him if he can help you, instead of accusing him...make it be like a problem you're working to solve together, instead of a indictment of his personal habits. Is that too woo-woo?

-- Anonymous, May 30, 2002

uh you know Jess, some of those lawyers come from rich families and didn't have mega debt student loans and considering that a mega firm lawyer can make anywhere from 80 to 120,000 year starting salary. I'm think that maybe that fella could afford the Jag.

-- Anonymous, May 30, 2002

I believe one of the concepts behind relationships and marriage is accepting the fact that you have to modify some of your behaviors. As Al has said before, there are now two people at the Center of the Universe, not one. So compromise is in order here, especially since you will be sharing space and/or this can turn into an on-going long term problem. I would offer the following.

1. Ask if he could change a few things first. Asking him to change evrything at once is unproductive and ultimately doomed to failure. Maybe forget about the clothes and ask him to move some of the boxes to a closet.

2. Maybe offer to let him have a room or space that is just his and can keep however he wants on the condition that he keeps the shared space clean.

3. Offer to help. It may sound silly, but maybe he just doesn't have the organizational skills to do this alone. Maybe some guidance would help.

4. Do NOT fall for the old "Why can't you just love me for what I am?" crap. Because you can love him for who he is and still be unhappy at what he does. Who he is is the person you love and want to marry, what he does is leave his shit all over the house.

And that needs to change.

-- Anonymous, May 31, 2002

Wow, MOC! Everything you said is so right on, especially this one:

"Do NOT fall for the old "Why can't you just love me for what I am?" crap... Who he is is the person you love and want to marry, what he does is leave his shit all over the house."

I cannot even imagine tolerating somebody else's squalor in our shared home just because "that's the way they are." Bullshit! I am no Martha Stewart King, Jr. my ownself, but that doesn't mean I have to live in filth. Filth points to laziness in my mind, because it's not that damn hard to use some Comet (or get your wet towels up off the floor, or wipe down the goddamn counter, people!) every once in a while, you know? And Mama, don't let your babies grow up to be nasty, is all I'm saying.

-- Anonymous, May 31, 2002

what thoughtful advice, thank you all.

re: Offer to help. It may sound silly, but maybe he just doesn't have the organizational skills to do this alone. Maybe some guidance would help.

the above seems like the best approach for me/us because it seems like the least critical. but i'm not sure what to offer. i have offered "hey, you should throw a whole bunch of stuff away, bub", and he has agreed with me, but nothing happened. when he was out of town last month, i cleaned his bathroom and bedroom from top to bottom, threw away only things that i could absolutely identify as trash, and he was truly astounded & appreciative when he got home, but it has become a disaster area again.

i can tell that he loves how easygoing i am, because he always comments on how he's so glad i'm not controlling the way his ex was. and our relationship is wonderful, he is a doll, and i want to continue to be easygoing, it works well for us.

BUT what your collective advice says to me (esp. shoot-from-the-hip-chao), is that i am being a pussy. i need to not be so afraid of hurting his feelings, and just tell him that there is this thing about him that i find unappealing. i have to stop subconsciously trying to be the exact opposite of his ex. wow, i just wrote that sentence and it just became completely clear to me that that is what i'm doing.

i gotta be me! and me doesn't like slovenliness(?) and me needs to communicate that to him in no uncertain terms. and because he adores me, he will take that to heart. and if he doesn't attempt to change, well then i, well i don't really know, but i'll be hurt and i'll tell him so. so thanks!

-- Anonymous, May 31, 2002

i have to stop subconsciously trying to be the exact opposite of his ex.

An excellent, and enlightening observation.

-- Anonymous, May 31, 2002

Sara: That is so cool that you don't want to be the opposite of his ex; I think that can't help but make things better for you in your relationship. I hope you will have great success in getting cleaned up!

-- Anonymous, May 31, 2002

You could just get a sign that says "Bless this Mess" and then it's like God is on your future spouse's side.

Holy mess. It's how I'm livin'.

-- Anonymous, May 31, 2002

believe me, the sanctity of that room is not lost on me - if i could even turn around in there i would face mecca... and the bathroom? obviously the work of only the most sacred of cows.

-- Anonymous, May 31, 2002

This may be a problem too big for even Math+1. Let's try it anyway. Here's the deal: I hate law (school). I can't remember a single class I have liked. I liked working at the Domestic Violence Unit, but only because it's essentially interviewing victims and writing petitions - not law related.

So, my mom says to "find my passion" and then I can go do something else. Forgetting the money issue, I still don't know what that passion will be. But don't you like _______? Well, no, actually. I can't think of a single thing that I love to do and that doesn't feel like a chore - even something like watching TV.

How do you find out what you're supposed to do? It seems like everyone else already knows.

-- Anonymous, June 01, 2002

Oh no Jessa, baby, we don't. I have no real idea what it is that I want to do. Today, when I was out by the pool, the girl next to me was grading papers - 7th grade science from what I could tell - and I was slammed with this great sense of I-should've-been-a-teacher.

There are lots of things I love, in small doses, like politics, but I don't know what my passion is. Part of this quit-my-job-move-to- Atlanta process was supposed to help me unearth what it is exactly I want to do, but right now, all I want to do is make money.

Sorry, I'm no help.

-- Anonymous, June 01, 2002

"I thought I wanted a career, but it turns out I just wanted paychecks." -- Bumper sticker on Idaho Sand and Gravel's backhoe.

I can't decide what I want to do either. The only thing that sounds appealing to me is coaching basketball, but, to get a varsity position at a high school, you have to teach SOMETHING...and I don't need the whole stigma associated with a PE degree, but can't think of anything else that I really enjoyed. Government, maybe? All I know is that there is nothing worse in the world than being an old flagger...I might have another four of five summers left before I burn out on it, but then what?

You aren't the only one that is lost, my friend.

-- Anonymous, June 01, 2002

Count me in the no career aspirations group.

I have things I want to do, but no ideas on what to do with the rest of my life. With the amount of time I have put into trying to follow my bliss, I could have a PhD in *something* by now.

-- Anonymous, June 02, 2002

Bliss. Where?

Okay I can say from my experience in clinics and working with lawyers prior to law school that the practice of law is nothing like law school. I hated law school. Even now that I'm done with it, I can look back on it and go "yep. That sucked" So all is not lost merely because you hate law school. Legal wise.

I don't like writing motions and briefs either but I've found them to be tools to help out a client. Since you seem to be liking the interviewing domestic violence victims, you might want to try a domestic violence clinic to see if representing ladies and the thought of "If I don't write this motion, I won't be able to get a restraining order and all hell will break loose" is enough motivation.

Granted you might just hate law in general. I can also name several people who used to be lawyers who are doing other things.

-- Anonymous, June 02, 2002

believe me, the sanctity of that room is not lost on me - if i could even turn around in there i would face mecca... and the bathroom? obviously the work of only the most sacred of cows.

That made me laugh so hard.

Sara, you could be like my mother who, when faced with living with my very messy father for 30 years, would just rampage until he cleaned it up. I mean, you have to have a certain kind of (scary) personality for this to be effective, but you could try it.

The MOC is a more organized person than I am, and to keep the peace, I try to keep my stuff orderly, whereas when I was living alone, I would sometimes let the place get messy (never nasty, though).

Now that we have lived together for nearly a year (!!!), I have to say - I have had an almost total lifestyle change in this regard. I now clean as much or more than he does. Especially now that we have a dog - I cannot deal with how messy our hardwoods get when he tracks dirt in. I feel like I must sweep every five minutes.

My advice is to combine these two theories of living and rampage around the house, cleaning it up yourself until he finally understands that the mess is contributing to a decline in your quality of life. Sounds dramatic, but living nasty is no way to live.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 2002

Well, even if you are doing a job that is your passion, that you love... you will STILL have plenty of days where you feel sick of it, you're tired, and you don't want to be there doing that. Just a warning. Doing anything for pay for years at a time will do that to you, I suspect.

Otherwise, I'm now again in the "what to do" boat with the rest of you. Thanks to layoffs, I've been done out of the field that used to be my passion, and I'm fumbling around and begging for secretary jobs in the meantime. Whee.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 2002

Alright, I have one for you MATHletes.

Every year we have a big party on or around the 4th of July because the nice old retirement home up the hill from us has a HUGE fireworks display that can be seen from our backyard. The fireworks display warrants that I have to invite children to this party. For the most part, the children always have a ball because I provide a lot of outdoor toys, etc. to occupy them. Now, mind you, we do not have children, so I do this out of the kindness in my heart. However, that kindness has dwindled over the past few years because our friends (and some family members too) will bring their children to our house and allow them to run rampant while their parents drink their faces off and socialize. What I am trying to say is that seemingly, because the children are now on my property, they are my problem. Over the past few years I have found stray children inside of my house jumping on couches, banging ceramic pots together, and once, removing my dining room curtains. Now, this is an outdoor party, there is no reason for anyone, much less children, to be in our house unless they have to go to the bathroom.

Now, is there any possible way, other than just not inviting children, that I can tactfully tell these morons that they are to be responsible for their children? It was so bad that one year, I overheard one of our friends tell someone else that it was ridiculous that our house is not child-proofed. At which point I intervened with, "Why should our house be child-proofed? We don't HAVE any children! If I can teach my dog not to touch it, why can't you teach your child?".

Sorry for the long post but please help!

-- Anonymous, June 04, 2002

Dawn - I don't see why you can't ask the parents to intervene if their child is misbehaving. Then you can ask them to keep an eye on junior. For your own sanity, it might be a good idea to childproof your house just for the day. I wouldn't go so far as to take down the curtains though.

I have sympathy for your plight - I don't understand parents who think they can just forget about their children. My son's pretty well behaved but I still keep an eye on him. When he was a toddler I never let him out of my sight, or made sure his father was right there. I have other failings as a parent, but I got THAT one right!

-- Anonymous, June 04, 2002

I would recommend that you let everyone know emphatically when you invite them: "In the past, guests have expressed the concern about our home being 'child-proof'. While we will be putting away the blow torches, handguns, and candy-flavored sedatives for the night, otherwise we do not plan on making extreme preparations for the children. Please be sure to keep an eye on your little ones while they are visiting us!"

Maybe you could take out that part about the guns and sedatives if you don't think people would find it as funny as I do.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 2002

Maybe you could take out that part about the guns and sedatives if you don't think people would find it as funny as I do.

Actually, I find it very funny PG and may even throw in dry cleaner bags for emphasis.

Dawn - I don't see why you can't ask the parents to intervene if their child is misbehaving. Then you can ask them to keep an eye on junior.

I have tried this in the past. The problem is that we invite close to 100 people to this party and roughly 25 of them are children. I know that seems extreme but we both have big families and we have a rather large extended group of friends. I try to keep a post on what is going on inside but it is really tough when I am also trying to put out food, clean up messes, greet people, and have a little bit of a good time myself. Although I do sometimes locate the parent to come inside and wrangle their child, they sometimes give me a bit of an attitude as if it is my fault that their child is standing on top of my china cabinet with a hot dog in his hand while they are outside enjoying a nice cold beer and good conversation.

Of course, not all of the children are like this but I'll tell you, last year, after the fireworks, I was in the kitchen washing dishes and heard screaming. I looked into the family room / dining room to find almost every child inside my house playing hide & seek. Two of them were swinging (I swear) from my dining room curtains which, of course, brought them & the rods to the ground. Not a single adult was in the house other than myself. You all don't even want to know the levels I reached at that moment.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 2002

How about having some activities for the kids? Either solicite a volunteer or hire a few of the neighborhood babysitters. If the kids are busy having fun they won't be in your living room sticking their heads in plastic bags and huffing glue.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 2002

Last year, I had $150 worth of toys and crafts for the rugrats. I had a crafting table set up and enlisted two of the parents to run the table.

And, the funny thing is that we have a HUGE playground less than a block from our house. The real problem children were generally the younger ones. For yet another example, my boyfriend's sister-in-law put together a plate of food for her youngest (3 years old then) child. She then took her inside of my house, in my family room, to eat at the coffee table. Never mind the fact that we do have a kitchen table and that there was a 30 foot long table under a tent in my backyard. It really was not a big deal...but, then she left her to eat there while she made plates for herself and their other 2 children. I walked in my family room to find my boyfriend's niece standing on the back of my couch with her plate dropping food onto the couch below.

Now, to me, this is unacceptable but maybe I just expect too much of people.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 2002

Ooooh, hiring babysitters is a good one, MOC. It wouldn't even have to be the really expensive older good kind, like the high school senior girl (who probably will be at the lake drinking Zimas with her friends anyway)... it could be even a 12- or 13-year-old, since the parents are actually there. I bet the parents would kick in $5 each too.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 2002

Oh, I'm in full agreement about the parent thing. It seems that a lot of parents have forgotten or just ignore the fact that young kids need constant looking after. If you take your kid to a party, your fun comes second to making sure the kid is OK and well behaved. If you don't want to do that, hire a babysitter and leave the kid at home.

I think it is the height of rudeness to assume that your host shouldn't mind if your kids wreck your house. That's being a crappy person and a bad parent.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 2002

The activities for the kids have to be really planned out. I used to work with large groups of kids and I know from experience you just can't give them toys. You need to plan out the events from start to finish. That might be where the babysitters come in. They could do games and hikes and crafts and all that stuff.

Maybe you could also make signs to designate child free zones in your house. Maybe make a few of those cardboard figures they have amusement parks with the hand that sticks out and write on it, "If you don't reach the hand you need a parent with you to enter this room." Ya never know.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 2002

Dawn, you are a better woman than I. I would throw the party but invite only the people who have shown that they can watch their children's actions (and the childless, of course).

Good luck, sweetie. Maybe you should pass the torch and let someone else's house get trashed for a change.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 2002

Maybe you could also make signs to designate child free zones in your house. Maybe make a few of those cardboard figures they have amusement parks with the hand that sticks out and write on it, "If you don't reach the hand you need a parent with you to enter this room." Ya never know.

I love this idea, Chris.

And, I am wrong in thinking that I should be able to legitimately charge the parents for all of these babysitters? Of course, I would never do that but the thought of it makes me feel better.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 2002

Dawn, you are a better woman than I. I would throw the party but invite only the people who have shown that they can watch their children's actions (and the childless, of course).

Boy oh boy, wouldn't I love that Robyn, but I think it would put me in some hot water.

By the way, did I tell y'all about the vacation house in the Outer Banks that I am putting together for a bunch of our friends? NO CHILDREN ALLOWED. I am already on the shit list for that one...I guess our friends with kids didn't appreciate that I specified that only adults and dogs were allowed.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 2002

And, I am wrong in thinking that I should be able to legitimately charge the parents for all of these babysitters? Of course, I would never do that but the thought of it makes me feel better.

I would think that if you let the parents know that you are going to be getting a babysitter, they would simply insist on kicking some in. I mean, right? This is how the world works.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 2002

You'd think you'd just be able to get around it by closing the doors to rooms you don't want people in. However, I know there are people - especially children - to whom a closed door means nothing.

I like the cardboard cut-out amusement ride signs. May I suggest Uncle Sam giving his sternest "I Want You" face for a patriotic twist?

-- Anonymous, June 04, 2002

I like the cardboard cut-out amusement ride signs. May I suggest Uncle Sam giving his sternest "I Want You" face for a patriotic twist?

It keeps getting better...I love this even more.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 2002

Dawn, do you have a tent, or one you can borrow? If you decorate it and make it Kidz Only, they'll be more interested in hanging out there than inside.

Alos, I am usually relieved when an invite is Adults only. It's not easy to socialize when you're busy making sure your kids are behaving.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 2002

Dawn, do you have a tent, or one you can borrow? If you decorate it and make it Kidz Only, they'll be more interested in hanging out there than inside.

Actually, we usually have 3 different tents set up. One for food, one for sitting at a 30' long table, and one for general stuff. I could definitely use that last one for the kids.

And, I would love to make it adults only but I am afraid that everyone would really balk because kids have been invited in the past, and the fireworks make me feel kind of obligated to have kids (especially the family kids) there.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 2002

Poor Dawn. Why do people suck?

You know what I would do? Rent a Port-o-John and absolutely with no exceptions lock every last person out of the house, including yourself. Keep a cordless phone outside in case you need to dial 911. Keep all the perishable stuff in coolers. Keep the hose running for washing hands, dishes, etc. One hundred people is just too large a group to keep track of, and they've already proven they have no respect for your home or your belongings or your limits. It's the only way you're going to be able to enjoy your party without constantly playing policewoman about which kids are in the house or which babysitters aren't watching the kids, etc.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 2002

Word, Keli. I appreciate knowing that there will be no children. Y'all know how I love children, but it's impossible to socialize with a parent who doesn't look at you or hear a word you say because they are trying to keep control of their child via winks and verbal commands.

Of course, it doesn't sound like Dawn's guests are distracted by child-watching.

There is nothing rude about not inviting children. There are only 2 kids who come to the Banks with us every year, and even that really puts a cramp on things. Each meal is planned around what is acceptable to the children (read as nothing. One child existed on macaroni and sugar cookies last year). You know we wound up in the bedroom next to the kids, too. About once a day there was a "where are the kids" freak out where at least three people scrambled down to the beach to make sure that there were no dead kid bodies floating ashore. The kids were usually sitting zombified in front of the TV, just ignoring their parents calling their names.

Stick to your guns, Dawn.

-- Anonymous, June 04, 2002

Y'all, thanks so much for the great advice....I will be sure to keep you posted as the invitations went in the mail this morning. Any MATHletes going to be in the Baltimore area on 6/29? Stop by and have a beer...or six.

-- Anonymous, June 05, 2002