I can't post very well at the new forum, but I still can read there ....it seems their new server had a lightning strike and they lost some of the latest posts for good....so....If all of the old archives from CS would have been put exclusively on the new site, would they have been lost also? And while I'm at it.... we all, have posted in the archives, why are the archives the sole posession of the new board and moderator and not shared by all the other forums still up and running?

-- Annie (mistletoe6@earthlink.net), May 28, 2002

Answers

AND....while I'm at it....I'm getting sick to death of being treated like a child and having the archives locked up by the new moderator of the new forum, for so long. If they ever get THEIR problems straightened out over there, leave the archives open!!! They are ALL of ours, not just a few.

( Diane, I broke my promise, I couldn't help it any longer) :)

-- Annie (mistletoe6@earthlink.net), May 28, 2002.

Hello, everyone! I've never posted here before, but I thought maybe this would be a good chance to ask permission to post here occasionally ...and to agree totally with Annie!! I've done some reading at Chuck's forum, but don't plan on posting there. Just stubborn I guess :-)!! But I really miss not being able to access the archives. It's always been like an online library for me whenever I need some info! I can access some of it through google, but not much.

Anyways, I hope I didn't poke my nose in somewhere where it doesn't belong!!?

-- Marcia (HrMr@webtv.net), May 28, 2002.

The archives are not the sole posession of the moderator. We took a vote, and the vast majority of the forum's users voted to transfer the archives and then shut down the old site for good. We have not transferred anything yet. We have a complete backup of the archives, and they will not be lost, regardless of whether or not the server crashes.

Some data was lost in the crash, but I may still be able to retrieve at least a part of it. I am working on it.

I am doing my best to run the forum in accordance with the wishes of the majority of its users. Naturally, there will be some who are disappointed, but I can assure you, this is not some power trip on my part. I'd much rather be out fencing the back 40 than spending hundreds of VOLUNTEER hours maintaining the forum. (that's another reason we moved to homesteadingtoday.com, it will _eventually_ be much less of a headache to administer.

I will do my best to make the forums archives open to all, while still abiding by our commitment to stop using the Countryside name. My best volunteer efforts to find a compromise in this matter are the best we're going to get.

Hang in there.

-- chuck in md (woah@mission4me.com), May 28, 2002.

Originally the Countryside magazine was just gong to shut the forum down completely: no forum, no archives, nothing. However they said they would give time to start a new site, and move the archives there. So I guess they really belonged to the magazine to start with and they could have been deleted several months ago, IF someone had not stepped forward and volunteered to move the site. I think people have forgotten that. If you look back to the announcement that was made by Ken, the whole site was going to just disappear.

-- Just look it up (abc@xyz.com), May 28, 2002.

Annie - - what an excellent point! Take the archives off Lusenet on a trumped up excuse they were in "danger" and then the real danger may have been in the "safe" place. LOL! !

And Chuck, I know *YOU* say it was the choice of the "membership" that voted to move/protect those archives. . . . but. . . . . the question was put to them in such a way they were led to believe the archives were in danger of destruction if they were not removed from Lusenet immediately, so it appeared there was really only one viable option.

Lightening! From the heavens no less! Goodness.

-- Granny Hen (Cluckin along@cs.com), May 28, 2002.

How did I lead anyone to believe that they were in danger?

-- chuck in md (woah@mission4me.com), May 28, 2002.

Chuck, did you really think that we are too stupid to figure out that you posted the poll on the new site so that you could pretty well guarentee the outcome? You're quite skilled at manipulation - not a skill much admired by most real homesteading folks. As someone who joined the forum early on; and spent a great deal of time on the frequent posters list; I am disgusted by your actions. Tell me this - How many of the founding members of the Countryside forum bothered to move with you? How many of the folks who freely gave of their time and knowledge to help others, followed you? We hear from you how much time it takes to maintain the forum - What credit have you given to the many early forum members who spent a great deal of time answering questions? I am simply grateful that I was able to obtain a copy of the archives from the moderator of this forum before you shut the forum down the first time. For, I do not trust you, in spite of your altruistic protestations; and I am thoroughly appalled to think that I, by participating on the forum long before you ever showed up, have provided you an opportunity to misuse my words for your own means.

-- Polly (tigger@moultrie.com), May 28, 2002.

I'm concerned about the fact that now since we're mostly posting on this site, the old site won't be getting as much attention, and is hacker (or troll) bait. I'd really get strung up by you all if I let the archives get crashed or something.

Posted: Sun May 12, 2002 7:06 pm Post subject: What to do with the old forum?

chuck Site Admin

-- me (wow@CS.com), May 28, 2002.

How quickly you forget! I posted on CS since 1999...amazing how the whining by some of you has remained the same now as it was then! grow up for heavens' sake...How patronizing of you to assume that the folks who went to the new site are some sort of mindless sheeple, incapable of an independent thought, somehow mesmerized by a diabolical Chuck, while those of you "realiotrulio" homesteaders know the "truth"...please. I had a lovely time on the new site, walking down memory lane with over 40 other "pioneer" members of the CS forum who, like me, were delighted with the new site..the only former posters we missed who were named, were Gerbil and Brad..sorry. Those of you who didn't choose to leave we not bad mouthed at the new site by anyone..no need to..to each his own. There was genuine concern among the MAJORITY of folks, old and new, that the archives, if left open, would be filled with inane bible quotes out of context by the then-rampaging out of control "welp of satan"...if you don't buy that, oh well...your choice. Personally, when I heard that CS was going to dump the entire site, I made my own copy of the archives before that had a chance to happen..you see, we old timers think for ourselves.

-- lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), May 28, 2002.

And don't forget, Chuck sacks groceries with Elvis in Columbus, Ohio in his spare time. I saw it in the Weekly World News. C'mon, folks. I really think the folks running Countryside were gonna dump the site. And Lusenet has said that they weren't going to upgrade. And Chuck asked us our opinion. And we gave it. Are any of us ready to be the administrator when Chuck decides he's had enough? I, for one, am happy that SOMEONE is interested in keeping our colony alive.

-- Gailann Schrader (gtschrader@aol.com), May 28, 2002.

I fully realize that CS magazine was going to dump responsibility of the old forum. They no longer wanted to manage it. I also understand that they were not permitting use of the name "Countryside". But did they say no one could take the forum over and simply change the name? I also realize that some wanted to go to a secure sight for obvious reasons. I can understand that too. Start a new forum if you wish. Just has been done in the past. BUT...why the all or nothing? No where was the proposal put forth to elect a new moderator for those who wanted to stay, keep the archives where they were and simply copy them to the new site. They were already backed up by numerous cd's. I am not blasting Chuck at all. He simply did what those who wanted to leave, did. The mistake is being made that we are expecting Chuck to handle 2 forums. The old and the new. Not so. The new can carry on. Copy the archives to the new site and leave the old behind you. Simple.

I am not whining about anything. In fact I am really trying to understand all of this. The new site is great for those who want it. Some of us, don't. Seems we have had alot of fast judgments on handling all of this, and I am simply asking why. Why all or nothing.

-- Annie (mistletoe6@earthlink.net), May 28, 2002.

How many times .... first of all ... how many times does it need to be said that the archives ARE NOT in danger of being lost, trolled, stolen, "KA-POOFED" etc.? At least up to the most recent backup I have, being dated just before the "forced move" to the new site. At first my dander was up a little over Chuck not making it VERY CLEAR that the archives were safe and sound, regardless of what CS or Lusenet or whoever did. Find a new site, mirror the archives from the backed up CD onto the new site, and WALLA - the archives appear! However, concerning my dander, I've posted this very same info on several occassions, and still read the same questions and concerns over and over again - so my dander has settled. Over the Lusenet forum backups, that is.

BUT ... when I mentioned something in a post here about one of the things I wasn't too pleased with concerning the new site was not being able to do backups, he assured me they forums were being backed up DAILY. So ... okay, I figure - what's the worst that can happen ... lose one, maybe two days of posts and get a copy from Chuck if anything ever happened. Now all of a sudden there's all this information supposedly blown out of the sky by lightening without much of a chance of recovery. So the only real question is ... which was/is BS? My #1 concern is all the vagaries swirling around in all this. I've been as up front and honest as I know how, passing on all the information requested and attempting to insure the structure of what we have here in several forums is kept intact. If there's been a problem with that goal, I've attempted to pass it on to you folks - and that's all I'm asking of anyone else!

As for the "Chuck bashing" that's going on ... all I can tell you all is that being a moderator "can be" very time consuming and has pretty some pretty "tight ropes" to walk from time to time, IMHO. So it isn't a piece of cake ... but on the other side of the coin, it is VERY rewarding (to me, at least!!!). Only thing I can see "amiss" is a certain degree of "smoke screen" mentality - and I've been pretty leary of the whole deal ... attempting to walk the earlier mentioned "tight rope" in the foruming world. I guess I just have to grab the bulls by the horns, hang on and see where all this goes. For what it's worth from this ol' Okie transplant Kansas homesteader - I love being here and I value you folks and consider many of you friends! I sincerely hope that's what I've communicated - and I wish each and every one of you a peaceful, laughter-filled day in the midst of all this! My .02 worth!

-- Phil in KS (mac0328@planetkc.com), May 28, 2002.

You had to be a registered member of Homesteading Today to vote in the poll about the archives. So those of us who didn't want to move were shut out of the voting. No wonder the vote went Chuck's way. I do post on the new forum from time to time, but I refuse to register. I don't like the way it tells you what registered members are reading the forum at any given time. I don't want any Big Brother checking out what posts I'm looking at. It's as bad as those "customer loyalty" cards the supermarkets make you use now in order to get the sale prices.

-- Sherri C (CeltiaSkye@xaol.com), May 28, 2002.

OH! I agree with Annie and others ... I don't think it is appropriate to have the "all or nothing" mentality concerning CS forum. If someone were willing to take over the responsibilities here on Lusenet, the opportunity should be there! Once again ... just MHO!

-- Phil in KS (mac0328@planetkc.com), May 28, 2002.

On a side note....I forgot my manners. Welcome to the board Marcia! Glad to have you here. Phil and Cheryl, our fearless leaders, are good people. We are usually a very laid back bunch, honestly. :)

-- Annie (mistletoe6@earthlink.net), May 28, 2002.

Hi Marcia ... just wanted to let you know that you are more than welcome here - post anytime and read all ya like - it's free for the takin' (grin)!

Right now there's a small bit of turmoil in the wind, but we're pretty laid back and helpful most of the time. Every once in a while one of us (or more) gets a "toothache" and rants a bit. IMHO, that's part of the fun - folks being folks in this great, topsy-turvy world we live in.

I think I speak for all of us here when I say we look forward to your visits and would love hearing whatever you have to share. We don't know it all here, but you can bet that if you ask a question you're sure to get responses that are most likely helpful (and sometimes entertaining, as well!). Once again ...

W-E-L-C-O-M-E!!!!!!!

-- Phil in KS (mac0328@planetkc.com), May 28, 2002.

Phil,

FYI, I was able to obtain the backup that I was talking about. This morning it wasn't looking so good, but after going to the web host's upline provider, we were able to get our hands on it. So we may have lost a day or two, but not much more.

And BTW, this whole lightning thing has gotten blown way out of proportion. This morning there was speculation that lightning may have been the cause of the problem, since we had one of the most severe thunderstorms I've ever seen here last night. However, as it turns out, the web host was performing an upgrade and accidentally reformatted the hard drive (or something) and crashed the whole thing.

I purchased a web hosting service that advertised "daily back-ups". As it turns out, it was more like every few days, but at least I was able to get the backed up database from them. Losing that kind of data is my worst nightmare. We may still lose a little data, but not most of it. The site should be back to normal in a day or two.

Phil, you understand the difficulty of this job more than many, and you are correct in saying that it is rewarding. What is most frustrating to me is being in a position where one is vilified no matter what one does. Having one's actions misconstrued to be malicious or self-serving when they are meant to be anything but, is very disheartening.

I will say it again here, as I've said elsewhere today. I am more than willing to allow the archives to stay open on LUSENET if someone can figure out how to transfer the archives to another site so that we won't be using the Countryside name. Figure out a way to do it and I'm there. Neither I nor any of the net-guru's that I know can figure out a way to do it.

-- Chuck (woah@mission4me.com), May 28, 2002.

Oh, and Sherri, the voting on that poll didn't go "my way." Personally, I voted to keep the forum open on a read-only basis.

-- Chuck (woah@mission4me.com), May 28, 2002.

Interesting how someone who is so very busy doing all kindsa altrusistic deeds for the world finds time to still hang around the LUSENET forums! Whatta guy! :)

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), May 28, 2002.

come on folks lighten up a little Chucs doing a hella of job throw him a little slack. Bob se,ks.

-- Bobco (bobco@kans.com), May 28, 2002.

Hey Phil,

I didn't know you were an Okie transplant - me too! Where in Oklahoma are you from?

-- Terry - NW Ohio (aunt_tm@hotmail.com), May 28, 2002.

Hi, Terry! I'll answer for him, since he's out mowing the pasture. Phil was raised in western OK around the Binger/Eakly/Burns Flat area. I myself spent a few early years in Tulsa, but for the most part was raised in OKC. We both love it here in KS, but I think Oklahoma will always be home in our hearts. :-)

So where are you from?

-- Cheryl in KS (klingonbunny@planetkc.com), May 28, 2002.

Hi Cheryl,

I was born in Muskogee and lived from 2yrs old-13yrs old in Tulsa and then lived in rural Ft. Gibson until I was 34. My Mom and brother still live in Oklahoma as do a lot of my aunts, uncles, cousins and maternal grandma.

The last time I was back there was the summer (two years ago) when the temperature was over 100 for days on end and there had not been any rain, ugh! That kind of weather, I don't miss :o).

-- Terry - NW Ohio (aunt_tm@hotmail.com), May 28, 2002.

Thanks for the welcome here, Annie and Phil! I'm looking forward to having another place to visit and read for "free" during my occasional sleepless nights! And I will appreciate any "entertaining" as well as helpful responses to my questions :-)!! Hopefully, I'll be able to share some of my limited knowledge!

-- Marcia (HrMr@webtv.net), May 28, 2002.

For what it's worth- a long, long time ago, before Chuck came along, Dave and Ken were threatening to just up and pull the plug on the forum without warning. Remember that? Their version of a temeper tantrum. They were willing and ready to let it all go down the drain. I started a new forum on Lusenet, called Archives, which was just what it sounds like, a place to paste the old archives onto so we could still access them.

Guess what! Doreen, maybe one other person, and myself were the only ones who were cutting and pasting anything there. We tried to get support and help, nobody else was willing to put in the effort. Now, maybe it's too late.

-- ducky (duxinarow3@yahoo.com), May 30, 2002.