I have a question for the forum. I have a Leica setup. M6TTL, 50Cron, 50Noct, and 90Cron

I also have a Hasselblad setup. 500CM and 500CW, 180CF, 40CFe, 80CF etc.

I want the 35lux and I also want an XPan. On the grey market I can buy both at about equal prices. I want the XPan to shoot cool pano images. It rocks. But, the 35Lux is a lens I have been lusting over for some time.

I am a MFA/Photo student and both would be really cool to have. I am about to buy one, which would you buy first?

-- Robbie (none@none.com), May 24, 2002

Answers

Xpan.

-- Chris Henry (henryjc@concentric.net), May 24, 2002.

I can actually buy the XPan for $200 less than the 35Lux on Hasselblad's Educational Discount Program. The "HERO" program has the XPan Kit at $1419 w/body and 45mm Lens.

-- Robbie (none@none.com), May 24, 2002.

For the same price as a 35 'lux ASPH, you can get the XPan with the 45/4, granted, not as fast as the 35, but just as sharp and with a fantastic camera body in the bargain, one that shoots real panoramics. Consider the XPan used; it is even a better deal than grey market, or look for a Fuji TX-1, the Fuji clone in titanium with the Fuji badged lens. The 35 is a lovely lens, but a full stop slower than your present fast Leica lens. The pano option really gives you a capability no Leica lens can give.

-- Chris Henry (henryjc@concentric.net), May 24, 2002.

Remember, you will need to factor in the cost of a center grad filter with the 45mm xpan lens.

-- Chris Henry (henryjc@concentric.net), May 24, 2002.

Robbie;

From your post it sounds like you have already chosen the Xpan. Go for it, its a very great camera.

If you shoot b&w you can do without the centerfilter on the 45mm, color neg too...it doesn't need the center filter and you get the benefit of the full aperture without it. Color slide film is a different story.

Good luck,

MH

-- Michael Hintlian (michael@hintlian.com), May 24, 2002.

"I want the XPan to shoot cool pano images. It rocks."

Before you buy an XPan, do a little survey of the ratio of professional photgraphs (someone paid for ownership or use) that are "pano" to those that are "standardo." I think you will find that XPpan equates to "novelty camera" for most professional photographers. When they need pano, they also need camera controls (i.e. view camera). And I am not saying this just because I have a nice mint 35mm Summilux to sell you.

-- Jim Lennon (jim@jmlennon.com), May 24, 2002.

If you want to shoot panoramic, the xpan is a nice way to experiment. MF panoramic cameras are considerably more expensive or require adapters which limit your use of the camera to panoramics only. 6x17cm panoramic cameras, although the "professional standard", are also hideously expensive. If you find you don't like the xpan, you can resell it for little or no loss and you will at least have the experience. I wouldn't worry about who uses what if they sell their photos: all panoramic cameras, in every format, are niche cameras and could be regarded as "novelties".

-- Chris Henry (henryjc@concentric.net), May 24, 2002.

if i were in your shoes, i'd get the xpan. but that's just me. you will have to list the pros/cons of each and decide on your own. really, that's the only way to do it.

-- Dexter Legaspi (dalegaspi@hotmail.com), May 24, 2002.

The one person I've talked to about the XPan who actually shoots panoramics professionally sez his clients would roll on the floor laughing if he brought in anything smaller than 6x17.

But for fine-art work where you're shooting for your own vision? Why not?

But won't you get the same quality/framing by cropping a 40mm shot from the 500CM to pano format?

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), May 25, 2002.

If you want the xpan, you should also check out the fuji gsw690. it shoots a 6x9 from 120 film with a 35mm equivalent of a 28mm f5.6. the body is nothing fancy, but the lens is excellent. you can crop for a panoramic when you print. there is also a gw690 with a 35mm equivalent of a 38mm f3.5. used you can probably pick one up for under $1000. they have two very nice features. one is a built in level, and the second is a counter that keeps track of how many times the shutter has been tripped. this makes buying a used one less of a risk.

-- greg mason (gmason1661@aol.com), May 25, 2002.

Looking at your kit I would get the XPan, or I wouldn't. What I would do is get a Mamiya 7ii, standard or a wide lens, and the 35mm panoramic insert. That way you get a 6x7 rangefinder that fits in a Domke 803 bag, handles as well as your Leica (slow speed hand holding, smooth shutter, auto exposure, ergonimic, lens equal to the Hassy)AND it takes 35mm panoramic pictures! Just a thought.

-- Steve Barnett (barnet@globalnet.co.uk), May 25, 2002.

I go with Andy. What can the Xpan that the 500c/40cfe can't? In both cases it's cropping a standard 6x6 lens image...! If you want a real pano effect go for a panning lens like the Noblex'! It gets whooping reviews and costs less, too. Cheers.

-- Lutz Konermann (lutz@konermann.net), May 25, 2002.

The Xpan uses a 6x7 image circle to make its 24x66 images; if you want to crop a MF image to make panoramic aspect ratio prints, then a Mamiya 7-II or Fuji 6x7 might be the way to do that. Hassy crops would be shorter. The 35mm pano adapter for the Mamiya requires you to shoot only panoramic while the device is in the camera; there is no option to switch between conventional 35mm frame and panoramic as there is with the xpan. With the 6x17 format, the cheapest you can get into is a used Fuji G617. All of the interchangable-lens 6x17 cameras start at about $3k (Noblex 175U-Rob't White) and go up from there. Did you consider the SWC?

-- Chris Henry (henryjc@concentric.net), May 25, 2002.

Thanks to everyone who posted. I knew posting this question to this group would produce a large variety in opinions for me to think about. I will let y'all know what I have decided. Once again, thanks.

-- Robbie (none@none.com), May 25, 2002.

Not so fast there Robbie. I think you need a few more Pros & Cons to consider, based on use, ( I shoot with both things you're considering). The X-pan presents problems if you're going to scan the film. 1)To my knowledge, no one makes a film holder/program that conforms to the X-Pans' proportions. 2)You must carefully seperate the X-Pan film from reg. 35mm rolls when giving them to the lab. 3) Despite comments here, the 45 isn't as sharp as the 35 Lux WHEN using the non-pano option on the X-Pan. However, counter what someone said, you can't get the same thing by cropping your Hasselblad 40 CFe negs. The W/A edge distortion on the 45 X-Pan is less pronounced because it's a rangefinder lens.

-- Marc Williams (mwilliams111313MI@comcast.net), May 25, 2002.

The poster above is right about the issue of managing output. When I bought my Xpan a few years ago, I was extremely happy with the quality of the transparencies and the ease of handling of the camera. What I was unable to resolve at the time was the need for reasonably priced scanning or a scanner that would do panoramics and also be compatible with my Mac. The only pro store where I lived then couldn't scan the output and couldn't print negatives in the panoramic format. I finally decided to sell the outfit since I wasn't able to get what I wanted: reasonable cost scans that I could print. I am not a pro, and I couldn't justify the expense of a MF or Imacon scanner for personal work. All the same, this wasn't the fault of the camera, and I still think it was a nice machine. I have the 35/1.4 ASPH. It is my favorite Leica lens of the four I own. There isn't anything I could find to fault it, and I was able to buy it at a price that was not objectionable, considering the high USA list for this lens. This would be the last lens I would part with of all the lenses I own.

-- Chris Henry (henryjc@concentric.net), May 26, 2002.

-- Kelly Flanigan (zorki3c@netscape.net), May 26, 2002.

The Epson 2450 Photo scanner will scan the Xpan strip as one image...Successfull usage of this scanner requires one to set the levels correctly before scanning; this requires alot of work and experience.....I have 7 different scanners; all have some weirdness.....Below is a 900dpi scan of Four 24x36 35mm frames that maybe enlarged:
-- Kelly Flanigan (zorki3c@netscape.net), May 26, 2002.

900 dpi scan of 4 frames




-- Kelly Flanigan (zorki3c@netscape.net), May 26, 2002.

The above scan is of 4 frames of a 35mm negative; scanned in as one image. it was scanned in at 900dpi..One can scan in at a maximum of 2400 dpi with the epson 2450 photo scanner..I have had good success; but have learned to do some smaller dpi scans as a preview to set the highlight and shadow areas.....This scanner many times gets a bad rap form the scan and go crowd; who dont want to think....By comparison my Canon 2720 35mm scanner is easy as cake; and WAY quicker but it will not take 2 1/4 square or scan the XPAN negatives wider than 36mm width,.... Kelly

-- Kelly Flanigan (zorki3c@netscape.net), May 26, 2002.

Buy a Linhof 617III with a 90mm lens.

Regards

-- Clark Tu (clarktu@giga.net.tw), May 27, 2002.