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East Timor gained independance today.!!! Im sure there would be plenty of coverage of this event in world media I thought I would just post it as Timor is a predominatly Catholic nation(Portugese colonised I believed) great to see our Catholic brothers gain freedom from Indonesia after many years of struggle. Please pray for their new country.

-- Courtenay (csisherwood@hotmail.com), May 20, 2002

Answers

make that gender inclusive "Catholic brothers and sisters"

-- Courtenay (csisherwood@hotmail.com), May 20, 2002.

Let's make it ALL inclusive; great to see PEOPLE gain their freedom irrespective of their religious affiliation or non-affiliation. I think Godde would be happy for all Her children.

-- Joan (godessss@mindspring.com), May 20, 2002.

fair enough

-- kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), May 20, 2002.

I think GOD is happy for all her children. Who knows, or cares, how "Godde" feels?

-- Carolyn (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), May 20, 2002.

Carolyn, you did mean to say this, didn't you?:

"I think GOD is happy for all His children. Who knows, or cares, how 'Godde' feels?"
You had a bit of a "typo," right? {_8^D)

And the answer to your question is, "No one in his right mind knows or cares how a non-existent being (Godde) feels."


Thank you, Courtenay, for that great news about East Timor. I have been following the situation there for a long time, though not in great detail. They have a heroic bishop, and many Catholics were martyred by Indonesian Muslims, correct?

God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), May 20, 2002.



John

Yes Carolyn did mean his children.

Blessings.

-- Fred Bishop (FCB@heartland.com), May 20, 2002.


John, you're absolutely correct. I made BIG typo!!!

-- Carolyn (fcb@heartland.com), May 20, 2002.

Don't worry Carolyn, the truth always rests in the subconscious.

But in honor of our moderator let us remember: "That which we call a rose, by any other name, would smell as sweet"

St. Thomas Aquinas offers a litany of names for God, all of which are taken from the Scriptures, but then adds..."And the Divine One is none of these beings insofar as God surpasses all things. In Aquinas's view, Godde can be named by any being in the universe because Godde is the cause of every being in the universe. But Aquinas also warns us ..."No name, absolutely no name, suffices for Divinity." Which is also to say, all names suffice for Divinity but on a limited scale.

My Godde vs Your God...what a terrible waste of time. God, Godde, Goddess, Allah, Buddha, Saviour, Lotus, The Tao... The Great Mother of the universe, Brahman, Sophia, Ground of all being, YHWH,....all should be respected and accepted. To attempt to control Godde by controlling a name of Godde is an act of idolatry, an act of freezing Divinity. It is what lies behind Meister Eckhart's radical prayer to rid himself of God. And..it may also lie behind the Jewish tradition that refuses to pronounce the divine name or to write it out in it entirety.

-- Joan (godessss@mindspring.com), May 20, 2002.


Joan

Take a hike you old wench. My wife does not care for your rubbish and IS NOT a femenist like you and HAS far more reespect for GOD than you will ever have. She is NOT a baby killer like you are. Now leave her out of your conversations. YOU HEAR ME!!!!!

-- Fred Bishop (FCB@heartland.com), May 20, 2002.


GOD

Joan DOES not have a sub-consciense--She dictates the heretic ideals of many others but the truths handed down by Christ. EYUK.

-- Fred Bishop (FCB@heartland.com), May 20, 2002.



So, in otherwords, Joan, your point is, "What's in a name?"

Obviously the word "God" is largely arbitrary; Our Lord knows we're speaking of him whether we call him "mi dios y mi salvador" or anything else.

But you've jumped to the erronious conclusion that any name will suffice--even a name given to something worshipped by people who never knew the God of Abraham. Heck, you would be just as happy to call him Ball of Lint or Duracel Battery or even Baal.

For you to make this jump, you must have forgotten a few things:

1. "God" as a word best expresses the mystery of the Lord--it is the least presumptuous of any other word to describe him--heck, even "him". Here is a short etymology of the word "God." You see, your "Godde" thing is even more presumptuous and falsely labelling than the generic "God." It takes a word that is distinctly gender-neutral and feminizes it. Yes, I've read your little process of invention, which is very cute. But quite frankly, it's not based in any good scholariship.

2. Despite the fact that you think the Bible is a collection of fairy tales, it truly is God speaking to us in precisely the words he wants to use. Do you presume that because it is an inspired text that God would let something be writen that contradicted him? What a weak deity that would be! The Bible might as well not have been compiled at all, if that were the case. But you see, the titles and names given to God there, while insufficient, give us our best and only hints about his nature. The name of Father and Lord--in whatever translation--are as integral to the Catholic soul as our love for the Trinity.

Just because the Trinity exists beyond human reason doesn't mean that it is unreasonable. Just because God defies human definition doesn't mean he has none. And truly, the only definition we can believe is what God has revealed himself to be. And our very best and only sources of such revelation are the Scriptures written by God's chosen people, the prophets and the Apostles, and the Tradition of the Church as guided by God in the Holy Spirit.

"Godde" is mere invention, and using it is like preferring a plastic diamond over a real one that took millenium to form. God, Lord, Savior, Father--these, and (I'm certain) any that Aquinas used have the advantage of a link to revelation. To say that "Godde" is a mere pile of feces would be too kind--at least excrement comes from ingested resources, a gift from God to the body. "Godde," however, came from no more than your solitary, rhetorically poisoned brain. It is, in fact, worth less than dung.

-- Jeffrey Zimmerman (jeffreyz@seminarianthoughts.com), May 21, 2002.


Sorry Jackiea but yet again Im going to veer off Catholicism a bit.

John my memory is not always the best but from what I know.. Indonesia, the largest Muslim nation in the world invaded Timor in 75 and was appeased because of its importance to the ANZUS alliance Australia, United Staes, NZ as I ally against communism. Timor was sacrificed like the Sudetenland. Since then over 200,000 Timorese have been murdered, including a number of clergy, who as you are aware were instrumental in the fight for independance. As an extra note NZ feels especially proud of this day because of our key role in *peace keeping* over the last few years in Timor which 3 NZ soldiers lost their lives. God Bless

-- Courtenay (csiherwood@hotmail.com), May 21, 2002.


Hi Joan.

From the begining, and ever since God reintroduced himself to the Jews and through to Christ, God has been the one the laid out the guidelines for what we call Him and what can be said of Him.

I studied Aquinas for four years, and I think you need to go back look again because your analysis of what he thought leaves a lot to be desired.

Or try St. Anselm: God is 'that which is greater than what can be thought'... well, he had good intentions I'm sure.

Anyways, from a philosopher's standpoint I can see what you are getting at... although the fact that we believe that God revealed himself to us puts a damper on it.

When the principles of faith are not used as premises in an argument, the conclusion of those syllogisms cannot be of the Divine Science of theology but can only be philosophical conclusions.

Havve a goodde evvening.

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), May 21, 2002.


Yeah....We have yet another Catholic nations. Most welcomed in this time when Catholicism is moocked. God definitely has plans for East Timor. My prayers and heart goes out to those who lost their dear ones in this fight for freedom and also to those who gave up their life in order to keep the fire of faith the Catholic church burning alive.

Blessed are you O LORD the God of our Fathers.

God Bless

-- Xavier (xavier_david24@yahoo.com), May 21, 2002.


Thank you, Courtenay, for that brief but welcome history lesson.
You are justly proud of what was accomplished by your countrymen.
JFG

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), May 24, 2002.


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