Some say that you can hand hold RFs at slower shutter speeds than SLRs. Maybe it's me but the best I can hand hold a 50mm on M6 is 1/60.

Anyone can do better than that?

http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=735051

1/30s at high res just not good enough.

Nick

-- nick (nickchewwm@yahoo.com.sg), May 19, 2002

Answers

I must admit to not having tried with a 50mm on the M, but did once go to 1/2sec with the 35mm lux, though I feel more comfortable at 1/15th or shorter!

With SLRs the longest I've handheld so far has been about 1/15th or 1/30th at 200mm.

-- Tim Franklin (tim_franklin@mac.com), May 19, 2002.

This was taken wide open with 50/2 at 1/15, M4. I was bracing myself against a doorway. I've heard that 1/15 is very problematic with an SLR. It has to do with the fact that the vibrations from the mirror are caught just right by the shutter when it opens at that speed. This is one of my favorite shots, and it's right at the edge of acceptable in an 11X14 print, but the eyes are sharp and seem to have a life of their own. I think this is one of those instances where it took a Leica M to get the shot. Why, because I could hand hold at 1/15, and the lenses are good wide open. There is a diminishing quality as the shutter speeds increase, and only you can decide if the particular situation makes the picture work. For example, with a jazz player in a club, we might be more forgiving than when shooting a classic car on display.

-- Phil Stiles (Stiles@metrocast.net), May 19, 2002.

Just in case I still haven't been able to post a photo, here's a link to the photo.net page. photonet

-- Phil Stiles (stiles@metrocast.net), May 19, 2002.

I'd have to dig out the Kodachrome if y'all want to see it... but I once took a picture of two young men firing up a hot air baloon at nite. The envelope was already "up" and the guys were trying to get just a bit of lift for the gondola (the baloon was to remain tethered). I was able to get the image by the light of the burner, with K64 in my old and terrible M3, with the 35/2/Eyes. I remember that it was wide open, and about 1/8 of second. The mens arms had a some blur, but both faces, staring up at the burners, and the baloon itself was reasonably sharp (good enough for an 11x14).

-- Charles (cbarcellona@telocity.com), May 19, 2002.

Just push the film.

-- Yossi (yosslee@yahoo.com), May 19, 2002.

If I know I will be shooting indoors I'll use ISO 400 film, but on this day, I had ISO 100 in the camera. I shot two compositions, one vertical and one horizontal. The horizontal shot holds up well, due to the very stable hold on the bottom of the camera, but the vertical shot has some lack of sharpness. I like the composition of the vertical shot, but the sharpness of the horizontal makes it more effective, (even though it is somewhat "bull's-eyed").

So in answer to your question, I am comfortable with 1/15th of a second horizontal and probably 1/30th vertically. 50mm Summicron, 1/15th @ f/2.0

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), May 19, 2002.

Working at slow shutter speeds is a developed art, I think, much akin to sniper techniques used for shooting things at 1,000 meters. In that vein, the military technique called BRASS (breath, relax, aim, squeeze, shoot) works well. Proper bracing is also essential, of course.

Pardon a non-Leica image, but it's illustrative of the point. Tivoli, 8 seconds, hand held, early Bronica 6x6 (1967 - not sure I could do it now):

-- Ralph Barker (rbarker@pacbell.net), May 19, 2002.

I use a variety of RFs, not just Leica M's, but I don't think the brand makes much difference. About 75% of the time, I can handhold down to around 1/ 5th, 1/8th< /a>, or 1/15th sec. for results that are 11x14-worthy (1st 2 examples were shot w/35mm lenses, the 3rd w/a 40mm). Braced or leaning against something, I can go even slower. Of course, if your subject is moving, it doesn't matter how steady your hands are, you're still going to get motion blur (which some people will mistake for focus problems); if it isn't moving, a tripod/monopod should be an option (although I'm usually either too lazy or encumbered to carry 1 around).

-- Chris Chen (furcafe@NOSPAMcris.com), May 19, 2002.

There is a thread just before yours called "Available Darkness" (Eric Kragtwijk) which shows a self-portrait using a Leica Tabletop Tripod. Take a look at that for some ideas. Being able to hold a Leica M at slow shutter speeds requires thought, technique, and practice. Leica practitioner's have been handholding the Leica RF at slow speeds forever. Fifty years ago, before the advent of the modern flash and super speed films, how do you think some of those shots were taken? The beauty of the Leica M is that it dampens secondary vibration so well. You should easily be able to hold the Leica M, with a 50mm, to 1/30 sec or a 1/15 sec. If you can only hold to a 1/60, then I think this would be an indication of faulty technique. Practice by dry firing your Leica, and putting a coin on the top plate. The coin shouldn't move. Once you're comfortable with this, try balancing a coin on the lens barrel while you fire. With some practice and a decent tabletop tripod, you should be able to reach very slow speeds. And not only will it help you at slow speeds but it will benifit your highspeed technique also.

-- Glenn Travis (leciaddict@hotmail.com), May 19, 2002.

Hand-held 1/2 sec, f2, 35mm ASPH Summicron, M6TTL, Fuji Press 1600 film (generally terrible film, but worked okay here).

-- Andrew Nemeth (azn@nemeng.com), May 19, 2002.

Andrew, I donīt mean to dude of your exposure but 15 to 16 stops below dayligth seems to me to much for a ligthed place like the picture you posted, (interesting pic anyway), any way I wasnīt there. or may be you mean asa 160 film, with a color corection filter 2 more f stops, 9 to 10 f/stops, may seem rigth for me. please donīt pay much atention just thinking loud. Are you sure 1600 asa?

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), May 19, 2002.

Are you sure 1600 asa?

Yep. The interior of the Australian War Memorial, espeically the new Anzac Gallery where the photo was taken, is kept really, really dark. This is part of a new "objects in space" museum design theory, where artifacts are lit by (weak) spotlights, but the rest of the room is almost pitch-dark.

See the notes for the project at 4020.net/awm

-- Andrew Nemeth (azn@nemeng.com), May 19, 2002.

Nick, I can't handhold a 50 less than 1/50 on an M6 either, to my satisfaction in terms of image blur, unless I brace myself somehow, even if it means sitting on the ground with the camera resting on my raised knees. With the aid of a table tripod and some obliging nearby solid object I can shoot even the 135mm at 1 sec and get sharp images. Nothing to be ashamed of.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), May 19, 2002.

Very interesting Andrew! letīs go back and finish seeing it...

one more, what about temperature of color, how did you correct it for such a dim ligth?

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), May 19, 2002.

what about temperature of color

(1) Shoot onto C41 colour negative film.

(2) Use the RGB panels in the "curves" dialog box in PhotoShop. Look for black, white and 50% grey targets in the photo and manipulate the curves until the RGB values in PShop's info panel are equal for each case.

It doesn't wipe out the need for correction filters in every case, but it works most of the time. Of course, where I'm using a tripod and shutter speed is no issue, then I would rather shoot through a 80B (or 30M or whatever) than without. But when hand-holding, then the Curves command in PShop is a god-send.

-- Andrew Nemeth (azn@nemeng.com), May 19, 2002.

Thankīs for the lesson Andrew, sunday still havenīt end.

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), May 19, 2002.

It may be a personal idiosyncracy, but I have found that I can handhold the camera at slower speeds when I am stupendously drunk. I think the drink calms my otherwise shaky hands.

-- Douglas Kinnear (douglas.kinnear@colostate.edu), May 19, 2002.

Yes, I am never happy about shooting a 50mm at lower than 1/60. Sometimes I do it, and sometimes works very well, but reliably that is my limit and even at 1/60 you sacrifice sharpness. One of things I always do is keep my speed up and my apertures wide. You can do this with Leica optics. I usually get out my table tripod and use it as a chest pod, below 1/125th unless I am trying to be inconspicuous. I did shoot a 1/15th shot recently with the table top on my chest and it was sharp - but it is always a risk. One person's idea of sharp is not necessarily the same as someone else's.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), May 20, 2002.