It's Not Only the Jewish Lobby : LUSENET : A.M.E. Today Discussion : One Thread

I read a blurp in the paper that noted that while the American Jewish community has always exerted pressure on our politicians to remain friendly towards Israel, there is an even greater pro-Israel force in the American community of conservative Christians. This has kept America pro-Israel for decades, and promises to continue to do so.

After seeing polls that show where regional American support of Israel is strongest, I'd say that it does roughly line up with the regions where evangelical Christianity is strongest.

I've always believed that the day our nation abandons Israel will be the same day God abandons us. After all, what has held back God's judgment to this point? I believe that it's the resources we continue to commit towards world missions, and the fact that we are Israel's only staunch ally.

Your thoughts?

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2002


I have to agree with you, brother. America would do well if she went to school on Israel, past and present. There is not one piece of information that they take for granted or label as mediocre. We don't hear about their plans until the plan has been put into operation and completed. Instead of us trying to tell them what to do, we ought to be learning what to do from them.

One of my grandmother's friends used to always say, "all the harm I does, I does it to myself." Point? America still thinks she's untouchable and in the process brings harm to herself by underestimating the enemy. They are within the camp and we let them in.

I must add that I can't imagine Israel yielding any property (i.e. West Bank, Gaza, or the Golan Heights) to the Palestanians for a state within the state of Israel. It's as unimaginable as African- Americans saying we want Southern California, Washington, DC, and Florida to be declared the United States of African America. Ludicrous!!!

-- Anonymous, May 20, 2002

Despite the rhetorical excess we find in mainstream media about the Middle East, the following facts remain:

1. Israel's right to exist is a non-negotiable item.

2. Israel's right to defend her citizens from terrorist aggression should not be compromised by touchy-feely Western critics.

3. Zionism is NOT racism.

-- Anonymous, May 20, 2002

How right you are, Bro. Dickens.

I hope and pray that we are including the prayer requests of Bro. Rob's to our prayer list and praying without ceasing that Muslims, whereever they are, will come to know Jesus.

-- Anonymous, May 20, 2002

Interesting thoughts, although I do not agree with it all. Please provide scriptural back-up to support the above, preferably from the New Testament. Thank you.

-- Anonymous, May 20, 2002

Please accept my apology. I am addressing my question to RP. I am referring to that portion of the US wheree evangelical Christianity is the strongest, and most specifically there thought and reasoning. Thanks again.

-- Anonymous, May 20, 2002

Well, I thought I was going to be neutral on this one but I find I cannot as there is much here that I totally disagree with.

America's freedom and prosperity has little or nothing to do with its support of Israel, but rather because of its faith in Jesus the Christ.

I once had a good friend--now dead--who happened to be Jewish (Non- Christian). He understood this more than those of us who called Jesus Our Lord. Lazlo Spreng was born in Hungry. He fluently read and spoke seven languages. Though he was a practicing Jew, he also read the Bible--both Old and New Testaments.

Lazlo was once confined in the Concentration Camps of Siberia simply because he was a Jew. When he finally returned home everything he knew and loved was gone except one brother. His brother relocated to Paris and Lazlo relocated to Atlanta. He often said to me, "Europe may be nice but there is nothing really great about Europe. Anyone can build a cathedral which will last 500 years, but to build an expressway where bridges and ramps are suspended one above the other in mid-air is truly magnificent indeed."

Lazlo said "America will always be great because Americans fill their houses of worship like no other nation in the world, and Americans truly follow what Jesus has told them to do." "Jesus, Lazlo said, told His followers to feed the hungry and love their enemies."

"American feeds the hungry all over the world. Even when America has been attacked and forced into war like Japan did at Pearl Harbor, America then turns around and rebuilds that nation, send them aid and feeds that nation till it is able once again to sustain itself. On every piece of currency and on every coin, America engraves. 'In God We Trust,' Thus, America follows Jesus and America will always be great."

Christians who lift Israel above other nation apparently have not read, "There is neither Jew nor Greek". They also seem to have never heard, "He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name."

Peace in the Middle East will never come until those living there come to understand what God really said. My Bible reads, "The Lord appeared to Abraham and said, "To your offspring I will give this land" (forever). Both the Children of Sarah and of Hagar are the children (seed) of Abraham. This means both the Arab and the Jew and their peace rests on the understanding of this fact alone.

On the other hand, World Peace and the Peace of America, therefore, come not from which nation America does or does not support. Such a decision is purely and economic one. World Peace and the Peace of America rests solely on the Prince of Peace (alone)--even Jesus Christ, Our Lord.

-- Anonymous, May 20, 2002

Sister Brooks,

I've seen the information about the evangelical support for Israel from several sources. I don't have the exact wire services, but I've read of it in my newspaper, and have also seen it reported on TV news. I think it was Fox. Also on the TV news were survey results showing levels of US regional support for Israel's most recent actions. These areas were primarily in the southeast and midwest, what's known as the Bible belt. Weakest levels of support were in the northeast.

Now why do evangelicals support Israel? Frankly it's because we believe that to do otherwise is eventual suicide. God is on their side even though He does punish them periodically. You'll simply be on the wrong side of history if you oppose Israel. From the Amalekites to the Philistines, from Nazi Germany to today's Arab states, the Jews have always outlasted their enemies due to God's providence.

Whether God has helped them to avoid defeat against tremendous odds, or whether He has allowed them to be destroyed only to raise up a remnant, the Jew goes on and on while their enemies are eventually destroyed. Where today is Rome, Babylon, Moab, or Edom? Absorbed into the world's constantly shifting people groups. There are also many prophesies throughout the Bible that tell of Israel's triumphs.

In John 4:22 Jesus said that salvation is from the Jews. We also see in Rev 7: that there are to be 144,000 redeemed Jews that play an important role in the Last Days. I believe I've said it before, but Israel's prominent role in the Book of Revelation and other End Times prophesy indicates that she will be around to take part in the events. Groups who think they can extinguish this nation are deceived.

Israel isn't right in everything that they do, but they are God's chosen people. Even as David recognized the Lord's annointing on Saul even as Saul sinned, I recognize God's annointing on Israel. Like David I'm not going to touch God's annointed. This, added to the vile nature of her enemies, and the evangelical course of action is clear.

-- Anonymous, May 20, 2002

Sorry, but I believe the Revelation Prophecies spoken of here have already been fulfilled. Salvation has already come through the seed of Abraham. His name is Jesus. While we cannot know all of them, we know many of the 144,000. They are called Diciples, Saints and Apostles. In modern times the are sometimes called. "Jews for Jesus."- -Many of whom live in the USA.

Jesus began His ministry with the NEW Israel, A NEW Testament. A NEW Covenant--the former one having been fulfilled in Him. This consisted of 12 persons--one for each tribe of Israel. In his own lifetime Jesus increased this number 10 fold, as we are told 120 were gathered in the Upper Room on the Day of Pentecost. John in his Revelation saw this figure increase by 12 time 12 thousand. Looking again he saw a number which no man could number. God in His mercy will surly bring countless more to this fold--as the simile of the "Grafted Tree" illustrates He would do.

There is NO other nation, which we may lift up except the People (nation) of God--Abraham's seed by adoption--in whatever earthly nation or kingdom they may dwell. Perhaps as a child you even sang this song: "Father Abraham, Father Abraham, Many sons had Father Abraham. I am one of them and so are you. So let's just praise the Lord!

Though still in progress, "The Kingdom of this world is become the Kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ" He is "Alpha and Omega"-- the "Way the Truth and the Life."--(The Only Way). So it then behooves us to go into ALL the world and tell the story that God loved the WHOLE WORLD and desires, through Christ Alone to bless and save us ALL.

-- Anonymous, May 21, 2002

I concur with brother Robert Matthews exegesis of America's support of Israel. Our support of Israel as christians should be based on Israel's obedience to the covenant that God made with Abraham. As christians we should not regard every action of Israel as being beyond reproach and we should not give blind allegiance to this nation. If we truly love this nation, then we should pray that they too along with the Muslims will accept Jesus as the their saviour. I totally reject Zionism because it is not scripturally sound. The following scripture from THE BOOK supports my statement.

"Well then, has God failed to fulfill his promises to the Jews? No! [For these promises are only to those who are truly Jews.] And not everyone born into a Jewish family is truly a Jew! Just the fact that they come from Abraham doesn't make them truly Abraham's children. For the Scriptures say that the promises apply only to Abraham's son Isaac and Isaac's descendants, though Abraham had other children too. This means that not all of Abraham's children are children of God, but only those who believe the promise of salvation which he made to Abraham." Romans 9:6

Why should the nation of Israel expect to have peace in that land where Jesus Christ was crucified over 1900 years ago if they haven't accepted him as their saviour?


-- Anonymous, May 21, 2002

My earlier post is strictly a non-sectarian reply to the question. I believe it is wise to decouple religious exegesis from political uncertainties. Theologians are far from reaching any consensus about Biblical eschatalogy so reference to Revelations to shed insight on the current conflict creates additional challenges. The future of the state of Israel and lasting peace in the Middle East must be based on international law and the full implementation of Security Council Resolution 242 passsed by the UN in 1967. For those who have forgotten the historical implications of UN Res. 242, recall it was adopted after the 6 Day War (or Yom Kippur) when Israel displayed her military prowess by defeating a confederation of Arab States (Egypt, Syria, Jordan, etc.). Land and territories were acquired (spoils of war) along with deployment of an Israeli military prescence. The purpose of 242 was to allow for total Israeli withdrawal from the occupied territories to foster peace. This produced the consumate quid pro quo: Land for peace. The political problem has been the stubborness and intransigence displayed by both Iraeli and Arab representatives to fully implement 242. Contrary to popular Israeli-bashing commentaries, Israel has returned some important lands (Siani Pennisula, Golan Heights, etc.) which resulted in Camp David (Pres. Carter's Crown Jewel) and Egypt taking the first step to recognize Israel. The current State Department position looks to carry out the spirit and letter of UN Res. 242. QED

-- Anonymous, May 21, 2002

I agree that the return of the Sinai led to Egyptian peace at Camp David. But I thought Israel still occupies the Golan Heights, a gateway/barrier to Syria? Indeed, much of the 1970's-1980s trouble in Lebanon is derived from Syrian occupation and a search for an alternative entrance to Israel's north, isn't it?

As for eschatology and current events, there can be no peace without the Prince of Peace.

-- Anonymous, May 21, 2002

Jerryl: Thanks for the timely correction. I am guilty of overstating the case of the Golan Heights. Several years ago former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered to return the Golan back to Syria as a condition for peaceful relations along the border. A transfer was envisioned in about two years. Unfortunately, the intoxicating influence of Middle East politics prevented this from occuring. With former Syrian strongman Hafez Assad no longer in power the prospects of settling these disputes are better. On a related note I forgot to address Jazzman's critical but thoughtful commentary about Zionism. I believe rejection of Zionism runs the risk of discrediting one of the pillars of Old Testament theology: Establishment of an Israeli State. The very word Zion occurs in numerous O.T. references. Zionism, much like Pan-Africanism, is based on specific territorial claims which both adherents deem legitimate. Despite my disagreements with others on this topic it is nonetheless edifying to see a healthy debate in this thread. QED

-- Anonymous, May 21, 2002

Moderation questions? read the FAQ