Will the pictures be sharp even if the viewfinder is suffering from misalignment when focusing at infinity range (very minor. The viewfinder boxes doesn't match at infinity. Is it a must to sent the M4 or CLE for repair or such misalignment doesn't affect the picture sharpness at all??? pls help. thanks

-- alfred (cnka@pacific.net.sg), May 17, 2002

Answers

If theres nothing wrong with your lens cam, then setting it at infinity for a subject distance thats about 30 meters and beyond should be sharp.

-- Karl Yik (karl.yik@dk.com), May 17, 2002.

Have the rangefinder aligned by a competent technician. Shouldn't cost a fortune and will provide peace of mind.

-- Bert Keuken (bkkn@casema.net), May 17, 2002.

like i said, when i set lenses to infinity the viewfinder boxes doesn't match. Missed out be a little. Will i still continued to obtain sharp pictures with this so call "fault" ??

-- alfred (cnka@pacific.net.sg), May 17, 2002.

Have both the camera and lens checked and adjusted. We could give you all the verbal reassurance in the world, but something's still wrong. Have it fixed.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), May 17, 2002.

Alfred

It depends on the focal length of the lens and the aperture you are shooting at.

With just about any lens short of a 500mm tele, the depth of field should conpensate for any minor misalignment. With a 35mm or 50 , even wide open at infinity, there should be no notioceable difference. The problem arises if the error is throughout the focusing range. Try a roll at different apertures and distances and find out.

The only places I would trust here in Singapore are Gopes at Tanglin SC and Ron, in Adelphi, who can recommend someone.

Cheers Lah

-- RICHARD ILOMAKI (richardjx@hotmail.com), May 17, 2002.

Be sure you are focusing on something at least 2 miles away (clouds are a good thing) to determine your infinity setting. If it is only a minor misalignment then mid-range apertures DOF will cover up the OOF and you should be OK. For closer work (lets say 10 feet) once you align the image in the viewfinder then it will be in perfect focus. Personnaly I almost never shoot anything at infinity, all my M use is with 21,28,35 and 50mm lenses. These are the focal lengths that the Leica M works best.

-- Steve LeHuray (steve@icommag.com), May 17, 2002.

If your rangefinder is off, how can your photos be sharp? Get it adjusted.

-- Michael Darnton (mdarnton@hotmail.com), May 17, 2002.

Alfred: While you may be fine if you shoot at infinity all the time, how often do you actually shoot at infinity? I had the same problem with an M2 I bought. When I noticed it, I unloaded the film and sent it off to DAG for adjustment. There was a wee $50.00 price tag for a million $'s worth of peace of mind. Bite the bullet, my friend, and have it repaired. You won't regret it.

-- Ben Hughes (ben@hughesbros.com), May 17, 2002.

"If theres nothing wrong with your lens cam, then setting it at infinity for a subject distance thats about 30 meters and beyond should be sharp" - I can easily tell at wide apertures if my 50/F2 Summmicron is focused at infinity or at an object 30m away. Alfred - it all depends on what you mean by sharp! - if you shoot at F8 with a standard or wide angle lens and don't blow up pictures beyond minilab 6x4's then it shouldn't show up. However critical inspection of a fine grained film with a high mag loup or a high res scan will show an error. What you have to decide is is the error acceptable? If it's not then you have to work out if the lens or the camera is wrong - either can cause the same misalignment. If you have a couple of lenses and a couple of bodies a simple process of deduction should indicate where the fault lies -correcting it for the body can be done DIY but the only real way to set it is with a series of high res film tests and this can be time consuming - a repair tech with a colimator should be able to check and reset a body very cheaply. If the lens is out - not unknown but far less likely than a body RF misalignment. Its a bit more serious to fix. However a lens that focuses past infinity on an accurate body will still focus accuratley - you just wont be able to use the end of travel as an infinity setting - you will have to do it via the RF.

-- Johann Fuller (johannfuller@hotmail.com), May 17, 2002.

Alfred,

Short answer: NO. (

To verify: shoot ANY lens with aperture equal or larger than f2 at 1m, this misalignment will show up clearly on film. 90f2 or 75f1.4 are good candidates. Verfify and see if I am right.)

-- Allegro (A.Scala@yohoo.com.sg), May 17, 2002.

Alfred; Your infinity adjustment is off in your camera. Send the camera away for adjustment.

I adjust my own leica M3 ; but have been working on repairs of surveying levels & optics work a while. The infinity horizontal adjustment is by the eccentric on the leica's roller cam. Vertical adjust is with a screw hidden below the front plate screw. The near 1 meter (or 3 meter ) adjustment is done next. The length of the roller cam's arm is adjusted. This allows the lens focus to be correct closeup also...There is an eccentric on the cam's pivot arm which varies the arm's length..There is yet another adjustment which requires one to bend the arm; this is abit hairy..Lastly there are end stops to set....The Infinity and close adjustments are interrelated; you set the infinity with a known good lens or fixture; and then check the close setting. If the close adjust is changed; it moves the infinity adjust. These two adjustments must be correct for focusing thru out the entire focus range.

It took 5 iterations of infinity/closeup eccentric adjustments to get my M3 fine tuned on my largest aperture lens; my Noctilux....I took photos of a yardstick 45 degrees to the lens at 1 meter away; 10 feet away; and infinity... It took 5 rolls of film to blueprint the camera & lens combo. All photos taking at F1.0 . the little girl at Walgreens 1 hour photo said "you usually take great photos"....Most of the time the close setting is set by just using the lenses scale reading versus the actual rangefinders focus point...I did this and got good but not great results....The "where the tire meets the road" method of actually taking photos is how I got my M3 spot on.. Kelly

-- Kelly Flanigan (zorki3c@netscape.net), May 17, 2002.

Ok; the yardstick was not actually used at infinity! ; I used some buildings visible in the backyard which are 1 1/2 miles away!

-- Kelly Flanigan (zorki3c@netscape.net), May 17, 2002.

alfred -- i think people may have misinterpreted your question. i think you are asking if photos taken at ANY distance will be adversely affected because your rf is off at infinity. your rf is not off only at infinity, but also at every other distance. you only notice it at infinity. the error will be most visible on film at close distances where a small turn of the helical changes the distance of the plane of sharp focus the most. stopping down will cover the error by giving you more DOF, but you should get it fixed. now, i am assuming that you have a HORIZONTAL displacement error (since you mention you notice it only at infinity). IF your displacement is vertical, rf function could be accurate, although the prob is still annoying. you don't have to send the camera to leica to have this repair made. many local repairers will be able to make this simple adjustment (indeed, it is easy to do yourself). the advantage of using a local repairer is that he can tweak the adjustment if necessary. call around. in the boston area, APC camera in haverhill is quite good with leica RF adjustments.

-- roger michel (michel@tcn.org), May 17, 2002.

So, in my case, with my 90 apo on my M6( both new) it focuses dead on at infinity but shows a slightly different distance on the lens scale when focussed at 10 mtrs over my 21,35,50. On my R2 the 90 goes just slightly past at infinty but shows the same distance on the lens scale when focussed at 10 Mtrsover the M6. So whats happening? BTW the 21,35 and 50 all focus dead on at infinity on the R2 and show the same distance at 10mtrs on the R2 as on the M6.

Help to answer this phenomenon appreciated.

Dave C

-- D J Chilvers (davechilvers@btinternet.com), May 17, 2002.

The Leica M series camera body rangefinder cam design is very straightforward.

The camera's cam roller pivot arm is about parallel to the lens mount when the lens is at infinity focus. Changing the length of the pivot arm here doesnt change the infinity focus rangefinder alignment much very much.

When the lens is focused a 1 meter; the lens block and lens cam surface must move away from the film plane. In a nominal 50 mm lens the lens block and lens cam surface move together as one assembly...the linear travel of the lens block is about 2.5 mm on a 50mm screwmount lens...In a 90mm lens; the lens block moves away from the film plane faster than the lens cam surface. In a wide angle lens; the situation is reversed...

Typically if the infinity rangefinder alignment is off; most all the focus postions are off too..

The infinity adjustment is very simple. The close focus adjustment is more involved; and requires one to readjust the infinity adjustment just a tad.

If the lens cam surface is badly worn or the lens was been dropped and has a dent in the cam surface; the rangefinder alignment will be off...when used on a properly aligned camera body The camera body can be aligned to the "off" lens; but this creates a problem with focus when using a good lens...Kelly

-- Kelly Flanigan (zorki3c@netscape.net), May 17, 2002.

Hi all, thanks for all the help. Will send it for adjustments for my M3 and M4 . But i still unsure of the CLE with a 50 summicron. Beocs it's suppose to use the 40 Rokkor. I will post another questions for all CLE users on that issue. Thanks.

-- alfred (cnka@pacific.net.sg), May 17, 2002.