Hiya I brought this camera as a second body to keep my 21mm + viewfinder on, i don`t like to keep the view finder on the M6 and it wastes time to keep on changing. I don`t use the 21mm as much as my other lenses but when I need it I need it fairly fast with the viewfider, hence the second body.

It arrived today, right out of the box it was clear that it wasn`t a `M` but i think it might be that it is lighter with a more rounded feel. It is lighter( not a lot but noticeable).A cross between the Leica and a Japanese camera and that is exactly what it feels like. Lenses attached very much like the M6 ( with eyes closed you could be fooled.) Viewfinder bright and clear but you do have to centre your eye more than normal.( but not a real problem)I think the M is slightly easier to focus. Shutter noise is louder than my M6 but not in a bad way, it reminds me off the R3 mot without the mirror slap and quieter. It`s unusual, like a very fast double click and I must admit that it`s the kind of sound that I like. Grip is good and with the thumb grip it feels secure. Metering is just about on par with the M6 as far as I can tell and the extra speed might come in handy with fast films. Loading is a bit of cake and a lot faster than the M ( although to be honest I have never found too many prolems with the M`s.) Winding on is very smooth even though it feels slightly higher geared than the M. Someone said that it would be a good entry level camera for the young or beginners and it would for sure but with only one outing under my belt I`m not sure that it cunjures up the same magic as the feel of a Leica but it is early days and as a second body for a specific purpose it is just fine. The 21mm asph mounts ok and the slight intrusion of the rear element doesn`t seem to have any adverse affect on the metering( which was my main worry)It falls of the cam at about 30 inches from the subject which is something I`ve had before but not sure if it was my CLE or CL but i don`t see this as too much of a problem. Infinity focus with the 21mm was spot on and distances in between seemed fine. My 35 Sum mounted ok and infinty was fine with in between distances ok. The 50 Sum was again ok on infinity and in between and all the above metered the same. BTW someone mentioned the LED`s being bright but they seem ok to me but then i like to keep an eye on them whilst lining up the shot. The 90apo went just a tad past at infinity( just a fraction)and metered ok but showed a different distance setting in the mid range (although there is always a bit of guess work) but it was not the same as the other three lenses. so, put the 90 on the M6 and it showed the exact distance as the R2 in mid range but focused dead on at infinity on the M6.( any remarks on this very welcomed)

So to summarise, for a second body with a wide lens and finder ( as I wanted)it fits the bill just right. It isn`t built like a Leica but then that was a foregone conclusion really but don`t get me wrong it does feel nice and the shutter although slightly noisier is sweet. I did think of using it for the 90 as well as the 21mm( and probably will once I`ve seen the results)but although the finder magnification is .7 as vs .58 on the Leica i think the slightly better range finder in the M will be the decider and if you own a .72 or .85 then it will be better than the Bessa on tele`s. One more important thing, I shoot 99% of the time hand held and for some reason i felt as if i could hand hold the Bessa better at slow speeds and that maybe because the shutter release IMHO is more predictable but it is early days. BTW Like most of us I`m fussy, but I`m fussy to a point of being obsessed with perfection in cameras. I will post results asap.This is not intended to be a camera test but another view point is always handy when you are considering a purchase. If the results aren`t good it will be on E bay so fast it`s feet won`t touch the ground.

Thanks for listening

Dave c

-- D J Chilvers (davechilvers@btinternet.com), May 16, 2002

Answers

Dave,

Thanks for sharing...

But it seems to me you miss an important point about the finder precision question.

The precision of a rangefinder is determined by what is called the effective base of the rangefinder.

The formula of this effective base is as follows:

Distance between the center of the viewfinder and the center of the rangefinder window X finder magnification.

The Bessa R and R2 finder magnification is 0.7 as you indicated (something not very different practically speaking than the 0.72 of the most widsperead current Leica M version) but the distance between both window centers is much less than with a Leica M and more akin what was found on a CL or CLE (I don't remember the exact value but something around 24 to 27 mm on the Bessa R2). So do not expect the same precision. If I correctly remember the distance between the two windows on a M (and an Hexar RF)is near to 70 mm assuming we take 30 mm for the Bessa R2 here are the results:

Bessa R or R2 : 21 Leica M 0.58 : 40.6 Hexar RF : 42 Leica M 0.72 : 50.4 Leica M 0.85 : 59.5

So despite a 0.7 magnification, the Bessa R2 is more or less twice less precise than an Hexar RF or a Leica 0.58 ! ...

No suprise you find the Leica M 0.58 easier to focus...

On the contrary, with a 0.7 magnification , the Bessa finder seems to be easier to FRAME with a 90 mm than an Hexar RF or a Leica 0.58...

Your 90mm f/2 may be more than once out of focus when used wide open with your Bessa R2,the CL CLE used an f/4 90 mm instead and the Voigtländer Apo-Lanthar is an f/3.5 beast...

Friendly

François P. WEILL

-- François P. WEILL (frpawe@wanadoo.fr), May 16, 2002.

Wow......just great, I think I speak for the whole group here, that was just.......wank.

I almost got to the third sentence, but I fell asleep.

Cheers Dave!

-- Phillapenis (philkneen@manx.net), May 16, 2002.

Phil dim,you speak for what you are,a yob with a can of beer,stick to shandy it might help.

-- allen herbert (allen1@btinternet.com), May 16, 2002.

Dave, thanks for post.I am looking for second body and the r2 is a serious contender.

Francious ignore Phil he has been at beer again and is off on one of his trips...sorry little soul really.

-- allen herbert (allen1@btinternet.com), May 16, 2002.

You see, there goes Allen, the voice of the forum. I can have a say can I not? Dave bored me.

-- Phileepo (philkneen@manx.net), May 16, 2002.

.............But not as much as allen bores me.

-- FRIP (philkneen@manx.net), May 16, 2002.

No, not when you use foul language!public place

-- allen herbert (allen1@btinternet.com), May 16, 2002.

Allen, go and f**k your sis**r in the *ss and then let her **ck on your coc*.

Foul? chickens?

-- Bugger (pfipandcheese@wank .me off), May 16, 2002.

Sad little soul who has drunk to much beer again.

-- allen herbert (allen1@btinternet.com), May 16, 2002.

Confused decided to save and wait and get a new m body.

-- allen herbert (allen1@btinternet.com), May 16, 2002.

Given the fact that most people scale focus a 21mm lens, the base length of the rangefinder is kind of irrelevant. I think that the ultra wide lens are where the Bessa cameras would be most effective. Have fun with the new camera!

-- John Elder (celder2162@aol.com), May 16, 2002.

Allen

What are you confused about my friend?Basically, if you need an extra body to stick your wide lens/finder on then it should be fine. As far as quality goes then it is well up on par with most cameras but we ARE comparing it to an `M` here ! if money isn`t an object then it`s got to be an M7 in my view.

Half the fun of contemplating a new camera is the contemplating. Take Care

Dave C

-- D J Chilvers (davechilvers@btinternet.com), May 17, 2002.

I briefly owned a bessa-r which I liked just fine, except for the fact that the light meter didn't work past 1/30. I do a lot of photography in "availiable darkness" so that just would not do. I called the american distrbutor in CA and they told me that was just a fact of the camera. Does the R2 meter past 1/30 or is it the same as the bessa-R? I would really like to know. I was really surprised that no one had mentioned that before on any boards.

-- Jason Eitelbach (JEitelbach@aol.com), May 17, 2002.

Jason

I just did an exposure in my study with the R2 and the lights down low 21mm f2.8 at 1 second with asa100! does that answer your question?

I must say I`m surprised that a modern camera( be it a simple one) can`t meter below 1/30th, i mean to say, you can almost guess exp down to that level, very strange.

Dave C

-- D J Chilvers (davechilvers@btinternet.com), May 17, 2002.

Yes, it does...I thought that my camera was defective at first, but a tech rep from schnieder told me that was just the way the camera worked...I thought it was strange a returned the camera...So unless the american distributor was feeding me a line, which always could be the case I suppose, the bessa-r meter doesn't work below 1/30...

-- Jason Eitelbach (JEitelbach@aol.com), May 18, 2002.

Jason,

I think you've been had. All Voigtsina Bessas have a metering range at ISO 100, EV 1 -19, f/ 1.4 at 1 Second to f/16 at 1/2000th, according to www.cosina.co.jp

-- Andrew (mazurka@rocketmail.com), May 18, 2002.