Hey Guys,

Why does Leica use/choose brass and/or Aluminum for their products and not more exotic metal like Ti, Mg or tougher/more durable. The incremental/machining cost would not be too much.

My engineering student boyfriend wants to know.

-- Allison Reese (a_b_reese3@hotmail.com), May 14, 2002

Answers

I bumped and dented my camera, but if it were made of Ti or Mg it would've been fine he says. He says Zn and Al is cheap too.

-- Allison Reese (a_b_reese3@hotmail.com), May 14, 2002.

now that leica is producing all of its body shells via CNC it can create body shells out of any material with small incremental costs. already leica has revived the traditional brass top plate for the m7. brass is good because it can hold almost any finish (including the beloved black paint), bends rather than cracks, is easy and cheap to machine, is traditional, has a nice heft, takes engravings well (special editions!!), etc. i wuld not be surprised, however, to see a true Ti camera in the future. and then maybe fiberglass. lots of possibilities.

-- roger michel (michel@tcn.org), May 14, 2002.

COST

-- Kelly Flanigan (zorki3c@netscape.net), May 14, 2002.

Nikon some time back had to stop using titanium shutters because the etching process was extremely environmentally unsound. Top covers and pannels are less so but if you start maching bits the cost to cover the process to comply with enviro guidelines would make an expenive lens even more so. So for Titanium it would not be negigable increase like your boyfriend says.

-- Joel Matherson (joel_2000@hotmail.com), May 14, 2002.

As far as titanium goes, it's not a very workable material. To Ti- plate a body shell, as Leica does, is one thing; to attempt to machine a part out of solid Ti is something else. I found this out years ago in the Air Force. The F-105 had titanium shells inside the engine exhaust nozzle. When the rep from Republic Aircraft told me what it took to drill each hole in one of these panels, I realized this is not a material you use unless nothing else will work. It takes 18 drill bits per hole. Since Leicas don't usually have to stand up to jet afterburner temps, there's little reason for Ti.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), May 14, 2002.

For the frames, Leica used to use brass stampings for the bodies because they could be brought to closer tolerances. When precision zinc castings became available, they went to using those.

For the covers, Leica used brass until the M4-2, when it went to zinc. It eventually came back to brass (via CNC) for some M6 commemoratives. No one knows why they used a titanium nitride finish for the "titanium" M6.

A lot of cameras have real titanium covers, such as the Contax T and the Hexar RF. Either they have found a way to stamp these, or there are no threaded holes in the parts (I believ this was the case when I took the top cover off a Contax T once). Body castings would be tough due to their complexity and the number of threaded holes they have.

-- Dante Stella (dante@dantestella.com), May 14, 2002.

Brass takes to plating very well, is easily machinable and has a give to it when bumped(albeit small),it will bend instead of crack. It is one of the best metals to use when you have metal sliding against metal because it takes minimal lubrication to keep from wearing. It is also relatively stable through a wide range of temperature.

-- Andy Wagner (awagner@midwest-express.com), May 14, 2002.

The use of Ti for cameras seems pointless to me. What's the sense in trying to strengthen the body shell beyond the capabilities of brass or an aluminium alloy? Most cameras' innards would be damaged by any blow hard enough to deform those materials, so Ti would seem to be an overkill, quite apart from the prohibitive costs involved in working with the metal.

-- Ray Moth (ray_moth@yahoo.com), May 15, 2002.

Just a clarification - the zinc top plates were introduced late in the M4-P run in preparation for the M6. ALL M4-2s and most M4-Ps are still brass.

The brass bodies have recessed front rf/vf windows. The zinc was/is not malleable enough for the detailed stamping needed for the recesses, so zinc bodies - including the last 4-Ps. have 'flush' windows.

Put simply, Leica (and other manufacturers) used brass for cameras and other optical instruments from the beginning. It is corrosion-resistant (hence its use in boat fittings) and engineers know its coefficient of expansion and other details inside-out. It is malleable and therefore more easily machined/stamped/bent into complex shapes (but also dents, as you discovered). Leica's brass gears contribute to the very smooth 'feel' of the M2/3/4. But are too soft for the pounding of a motor, so were changed to steel in the M4-2 and later cameras with winder connections.

In lens barrels brass and aluminum have a self-lubricating synergism, I believe, i.e. they don't tend to stick to each other. And aluminum is very lightweight, as you can tell by picking up the recent all-brass 'chrome' lenses.

Titanium was an unbelievably exotic metal until well into the jet age, and then a 'strategic' metal that was still hard to come by for civilian use until after 1980, which is about when the first Ti-shelled Nikon F2s showed up as very expensive limited-edition "Pro" cameras.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), May 15, 2002.

When Ti and Mg become 'old' metal technologies in 50 years time, Leica will most likely use them as it will maintain their classic appeal.

-- Karl Yik (karl.yik@dk.com), May 15, 2002.

please understand that the basic design of any rangefinder is more delicate than an slr with the rangefinder subject to misalignment due to bumps. the softer body allows the body to take some of the dings and save the interior, much like how the front of cars are designed to collapse and spare the occupants.

-- greg mason (gmason1661@aol.com), May 15, 2002.

Hey, Roger, Greg, what's going on? Don't they use capital letters at the beginning of a sentence following a period in your corner of the woods? Do you know how hard it is to read your posts? Thanks guys, :-)

-- Olivier (olreiche@videotron.ca), May 15, 2002.

Alison, it's a well know fact that Leica Engineers are tops at what they do. Cameras aren't all that Leica/Leitz does. What should be happening is that your little boytoy should be explaining to you, why they've done what they've done. Is he slow or what??

-- Glenn Travis (leicaddict@hotmail.com), May 15, 2002.