I'm expecting a used M2 in the mail anyday now, and yes there is a return policy. Are there any problems I should look out for? How does one go about testing a used camera? (I'm assuming the obvious one is with some sort of slide film, right?)

thanks so much

-- ken (kk353@yahoo.com), May 13, 2002

Answers

1. Is the shutter light tight - no burns, no mildew, are teh speeds accurate (film test is good for high speeds to make sure both curtains are moving at the same speed) 2. Flash synch ok? 3. Rangefinder ok at infinity AND close up? Again, film test BOTH extremes with your lens wide open. 4. Frames clear and bright, do they pop up as they should? 5. Self timer working properly tight spots in its rotation as its working? 6. Overall condition ok? Vulcanite reglued? Recoverd? 7. The "clutch" ok on the film advance, frames evenly spaced, no overlaps? 8. rewind mechanism ok? 9. Base plate fit evenly, not twisted, bent or loose? 10. No obvious missing screws, tampered buggered screws, obvious signs of amateur hackish repair attemts?

-- Charles (cbarcellona@telocity.com), May 13, 2002.

People in this forum often recommend a CLA when purchasing a camera as old as the M2. I followed this advice when I bought an M4 about a year ago, and it gives a valuable peace of mind. -Do it if you have room in your budget.
If you choose to have it CLA'ed, there are things there are more important than others to check.
Minor mecanical ajustments will be covered in the price of a CLA, such as rangefinder alignment, shutter speeds, stickiness of the finder frames, smoothness of the film advance mechanism etc.
What you want to find out, is if the camera has faults which are expensive to have repaired: Such as in the rangefinder unit and the shutter mechanism.
Rangefinder seperation in early stages is not uncommon on older M2 an M3's and -depending on how the camera was described- I think you should expect a few signs of seperation (during my search for an M camera I looked a many samples and I did not see any M2 or M3 without some signs of seperation).
You want to examine the viewfinder from the front of the camera and look closely at the edges of the two 'lines' going in a diagonal from the left side of the front -to the right side of the back of the viewfinder.
You should look for something that looks like golden drops along the edges, these are early signs of the process and are -as I said- rather common -but make sure to look if the decementing has spread further toward the center of the finder.
The finder may look clear when you look through the finder in a normal fashion, but if the separation process has spread further than the 'drops' the risk is higher that the elements will seperate completely if the camera takes an impact.
Some people in this forum has mentioned that recementing repair cost around 200-300$, but I do not know if the result is a viewfinder as bright as before. Others has mentioned a viewfinder replacement cost of 500-800$.
You want to know if the shutter sounds healthy, it is relatively trivial if you have examined a second hand camera before. You should be aware that a Leica has a unique sound at shutterspeeds lower than flashsync (1/50). It is a bouncing sound from a second gear and it is normal, but it often confuses first time buyers. If the shutter gives reasonable consistent exposures, then it is probably ok and a CLA will finetune the speeds.
Shutter curtains should be checked for small holes. Shutter curtains are not cheap (i was charged around 100$ in parts for a pair) but if the curtains never has been replaced, it may be the time to replace them if you get a CLA. They do not last forever -let the repairperson advice you.
I would personally never accept a camera with signs of mildew. Even if the shutter curtains shows no signs of mildew, you may want to perform the following test:
Put the camera without the baseplate, and with the back open into a (neutral smelling) plastic bag. Close the bag and let the camera sit there for a couple of hours. Open the bag slightly and use your nose to determine if the distinct smell of mildew is present.
You may also want to take a look at Stephen Gandy's Leica M buying guide: http://www.cameraquest.com/mguide.htm
Good luck.

-- Niels H. S. Nielsen (nhsn@ruc.dk), May 14, 2002.

I would definatly send it to someone like Sherry for a CLA. She went over my M2 and it's become my most used body. Smooth as silk and a joy to shoot. There is almost nothing more damaging to a camera, than using it when it is not properly lubricated. That M2 has survived a good 30-40 years. It deserves a cleaning so it will last another 40 or until the world runs out of Tri-X. Definatly worth the 200 bucks.

feli

-- feli (feli2@earthlink.net), May 14, 2002.

I have 2 M2s myself: These go for a CLA when they need it. This means that the camera is not operating properly or when the sound / feel of the camera is no more that of a recently cleaned.

In your case I'd mount the camera on a tripod, and then shoot a slide film at all speeds with a corresponding aperture as possible. This should result in a number of slides which should have all the same exposure. As long as this is ok and the camera sounds like a recently cleaned M or a new M6, I would assume that the shutter speeds don't need an overhaul or lubrication.
I would also do the rangefinder test as described above (lens wide open at far and near distances). If this is also ok, I would not give the camera away, not even to Sherry Krauter or Leica Germany.

Of my two cameras one clearly needed an overhaul while the other one worked perfectly (and still is after more than 100 rolls of film).

About the return policy: I don't know what you paid, but if your camera needs a complete overhaul and does not look very nice, I'd rather give it back and look out for a new one.

-- Kai Blanke (kai.blanke@iname.com), May 14, 2002.

The viewfinder frames are about a $200 part, while the rangefinder complete is about $500, so depending on which items are bad... oh my.

Personally, I bit the bullet, did the frames, got M4-P frames as well, but only because the rest of the camera was just spotless - literally without a scratch (M4-2).

-- Charles (cbarcellona@telocity.com), May 14, 2002.

One of the first things that I do is stick my nose in the lens mount opening and smell. This may sound silly but it's an easy indicator that tells you how the camera has been stored. If you smell mildew than the camera has probably set up for a long time without use. This usually indicates that the shutter train has not been exercised for a while and the lubricants are most likely gummed up. I came upon a "cherry" M3 awile back that was taken to the Leica store by a widow after the husband's death. This is fairly common. While the body and vulcanite were pristine, the camera reeked of mildew. Factoring in the cost of a CLA made the purchase not a good one. I oppted for a slightly less pristine body but with a well running shutter train. Another key is the "bouncing" sound of 1/15 second. Once you know the sound you will know what I mean. Also take off the back door and run the shutter through the speeds while looking through the lens mount while watching a TV. With experience you can tell the proper width of the slit that you see for speeds from 125 to 1000. Good Luck. FWB

-- F. William Baker (atelfwb@aol.com), May 14, 2002.

Thanks for all the help. Turns out the camera was CLA'd a month ago by Goldberg(?)~ some guy in wisconsin, apparently. But I'll still do all the checks you guys suggested. Thanks.

-- Ken (kk353@yahoo.com), May 14, 2002.

If it had a CLA by Dan Goldberg (DAG) you're in the clear. He does great work.

cheers,

feli

-- Feli (feli2@earthlink.net), May 14, 2002.