Scrupulous conscience

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New to this Discussion Group, and wanted to know if anyone has suffered from Scrupulosity? Since returning to the Church three years ago, I have become extremely scrupulous, meaning that I feel anything I do is sinful. I confess to the same confessor once or twice a month, so he kinda knows me. I also belong to a Catholic group that helps with this problem, and I pray to St. Alphonsus di Liguori who also suffered with this problem. Has anyone here struggled with this? Did I overlook a discussion on this? I would like to go into detail of my specific fears and problems, but wanted to ask this question first. maryann

-- mparker (maryann.parker@citicorp.com), May 13, 2002

Answers

Hello, MaryAnn and welcome.

Do not feel alone. I do know how you feel. I struggle with the same thing and sometimes even wonder if I'm even Catholic because of it. I find myself, in the back of my mind, thinking "is this displeasing to God?", etc. But I am beginning to try not to worry about these things as much. Not to say I've completely thrown out my moral standards or anything. :) But I guess it comes down to giving yourself a little more credit than you maybe do.

May I suggest speaking to your priest about this, if you haven't already. Perhaps he could offer some suggestions or a little more insight into it than one can provide here. I would also suggest reading some books on St. Theresa of Avila. She was a very human lady that struggled daily. I assure you, it will make you feel less alone and alot more normal. :) At least, it has for me.

Good luck to you and if you have any other questions or feel comfortable enough to share, please do.

God bless

-- Jackiea (sorry@dontlikespam.com), May 13, 2002.


Hello MaryAnn,

I would recommend also praying to St. Ignatius of Loyola. Early in his Christian life, he was extremely hard on himself when making reparations for his sins. His confessors (spiritual directors) corrected (discouraged) his excessive use of fasting and self-denial. His motto (and the motto of the Jesuits) is:

Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam (To the Greater Glory of God)

So, let's consider the "voices" in our head that tell us right from wrong. When I have guilt, what is the purpose of the guilt? If it leads me to live a life that God wants, that guilt serves the will of God. If the guilt is scrupulosity, it may lead us to despair and ultimately a rejection of life according to God's will. So the guilt whose fruits are a saintly life that imitates Christ is good. The guilt that crushes us with the "details" and leads to despair is bad.

It probably goes without saying that a person who lives by his/her scrupulosity to be "better" than others suffers from sinful pride and has failed to live the commandment "love thy neighbor. We aren't competing against eachother for a limited number of seats at the table of the Lord. We all have a seat at His table, as long as we accept that seat and reject a life contrary to His will. We probably won't be "graded on a curve" if our generation is particularly sinful.

On a subject like this, of course, I have to ask everyone to pray for me! I need you all to pray for me to accept the life that Jesus wants for me. Thanks!

In Christ,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), May 13, 2002.


Hey Mateo, that grading on a curve idea... I've wondered about that at times. Of course the truth remains a constant, and our adherence to it or deviation from it are always going to be pretty much black and white from God's vantage point... and if one lowers the bar to accomodate a particularly difficult situation then we call into question the very need for a salvific formula... and would make the cross of Christ 'in vain'. But then there's those pesky mitigating factors that have to do with knowledge and intent and ignorance.

"Then they will hand you over to be tortured and will put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of my name. Then many will fall away [or stumble], and they will betray one another and hate one another......And because of the increase of lawlessness, the love of many will grow cold......For at that time there will be great suffering, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. And if those days had not been cut short, no one would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short."

That passage seems to make it pretty clear in my opinion that the standards don't get compromised; so I guess any sort of 'curve' would have to do strictly with the traditional mitigating factors such as ignorance vs. knowledge, conscious act of the will, etc... so much so that the only option left to preserve souls seems to be for God to hit the 'game over' button.

So yeah I think you're right, there really aint no stinkin' curve.

Sorry mparker, my post is probably better in another thread. I think though, maybe, a possible help may be to try to do all things out of love for God instead of fear of punishment... to approach it from an offensive (proactive?), agressive pursuit of love instead of the more defensive fear of evil. I understand, this is tough to do, but if we can make headway in the love for God department, we can kill two birds with one stone, defeating the enemy at the same time. Best defense is a good offense; so true. Pre-emptive strike on the spiritual battlefield.

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), May 13, 2002.


Satan is the accuser of the brethren. Sometimes, yes, it is hard to determine the voice of the Holy Spirit convicting, and the voice of Satan accusing. Conviction brought by the Holy Spirit will bring joy and light and the grace to repent. Accusations from the devil bring condemnation, darkness, and the inability to receive God's grace.

When we keep our eyes fixed on our feet, we stumble; but when we keep our eyes focused on Him, we can walk on water!

Love,

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), May 13, 2002.


Watch out for the stones! They are everywhere too. To stumble is to be hurt by the evil one. He is constantly lurking about.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), May 13, 2002.


Thank you all for your responses. Would it be out of line for me to actually go into detail about what kind of things bother me? Maybe you can advise me if they are either venial sins or just faults and how they should be confessed. Thank you all very much.

-- mparker (maryann.parker@citicorp.com), May 14, 2002.

Maryann

I think in my personal view of course, that you should take your needs to a good pastor and discuss these things in a confessional, fave to face. He will be very happy to help you and guide you to better understand what your needs are and to educate you in what are venial and mortal sins. For us to do this could lead us to make errors in judgement. Try it. You will feel a lot better about yourself afterwards.

Blessings

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), May 14, 2002.


Fantastic insights, folks --- especially yours, Gail! Thanks so much for that.
A warm welcome to you, Mary Ann.

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), May 14, 2002.

Mparker, As one who has driven his confessor crazy with this, I thought I might offer some of my own insights as well. First off, I recommend you go here and read, under parts 1,2,and 3, "On Sin and Its Kinds." Afterward, I recommend you go here and read all about the different kinds of ways in which one can sin, and check out when it references the current CCC. After that, I would recommend you check out the CCC, numbers 1849-1869. Now, I am not advocating you to find more faults and sins on your own conscience, I just believe that the more one is educated about sin, the more one can understand the reasoning behind their own scruples. No one wants to offend their Father, no matter how small, but no one also wants to be so consumed with themselves that they never do their Father's work. I am not inferring that this your situation, I just think it is easy to get hypersensitive to our own faults to such a point that it consumes us. However, when this happens, we are no longer moving on the path of perfection but, rather, standing still lamenting a fault that might not even exist. Granted, sometimes it is sin, and definitely post haste to confession, but before you do, make sure that, as the Baltimore Catechism has taught, there is 1) serious matter 2) sufficient reflection and 3) full consent of the will If you believe that one of these three were not involved then think no more of it, confess it next time you make it to confession, and leave it at that. I know it is hard, but I always find the following two quotes from Bl. Escriva to be very helpful:

"Sadness, depression. I'm not surprised: it's the cloud of dust raised by your fall. But...enough of it! Can't you see that the cloud has been borne far away by the breath of grace?

Moreover, your sadness--if you don't reject it--could very well be the cloak of your pride. Did you really think yourself perfect and sinless?" (The Way; 260)

"Don't think any more about your fall. Besides overwhelming and crushing you under its weight, that recollection may easily be an occasion of future temptation.

Christ has forgiven you! Forget the "old man"--your former self." (The Way; 262) Good Luck and God Bless

-- Brian (sacerdos@hotpop.com), May 14, 2002.


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