Well my days with the APO Summicron 90/2 Asph are over. I am now trying to sort out what SLR/portrait lens combination to use in it's place.

I am not at all impressed with Leica R's value for money and my budget is relatively tight. I intially wanted my old Nikon F100 ad Af 85mm f/1.4D lens back but I just can't afford it.

The next best combination I found is the Contax RX, with it's super smooth shutter (seems like quietest and least vibration shutter I've ever come across), and either a 100/2, 85/2.8 or 85/1.4. Maybe even a 35/1.4 and 85/2.8 for a simlar price to the 100/2. value for money, these combinations seem much better than Leica.

I'd like you advice, especially if you have used any of this gear, as to the quality differences between the three lenses or yuor experience with one. I don't need advice as to the differnces in perspective or angle of view, just quality.

Why am I asking the Leica forum this question? Because Leica photogrpahers understand the quality I am used to and will give me a better idea of what to expect compared to someone who hasn't used Leica.

Thanks

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), May 12, 2002

Answers

I'm going to tell you what my second system is Kristian. Of course it doesn't have the Panache of Leica or Contax, but it can shoot with the best of them: Nikon N80, Nikkor AF-D 20mm/f2.8, 35mm/f2.0, 85mm/f1.8; SB-50DX flash; (filters) Tiffen Warm UV, Tiffen Enhancing, Moose Pol, along with enough film for the day and extra batteries, all carried in a LowePro PhotoRunner (total cost for everything, under $1500 usa). But you talk about light, compact & high quality! The only other system I'd consider would be the Canon Elan 7 with the Canon 80-200mm/f2.8 L IS.

-- Glenn Travis (leicaddict@hotmail.com), May 12, 2002.

Kristian: You may want to consider the R8 with the 100 APO F/2.8. I grant you that this is expensive BUT why not try purchasing it second hand? I have been using the 100mm for portrait and general purpose work (not to mention macro) for the past wo years and am delighted with the results. Ken Hansen has a few second hand 100mm as of last week when I visited. His number is 212 3170923. Good luck.

-- Albert Knapp MD (albertknappmd@mac.com), May 12, 2002.

What was your problem/issue with the 90/2.0 ??

-- Charles (cbarcellona@telocity.com), May 12, 2002.

I owned one of the first Contax RX's. It fell apart in my hands. The company swapped it out for an ST. I liked the ST much better but it developed four different mechanical problems when I was on assignment in Russia. When the Contax RTS III locked up for electronic reasons I got rid of the whole sorry mess. What good are better than average lenses if the bodies keep disintegrating? Go back to your Nikons. You seem to appreciate them more that the better German cameras. The R8 is the reason I sold a bag full of Nikon F5's and F100's. That and obviously better lenses.

Kirk

-- kirk (kirktuck@kirktuck.com), May 12, 2002.

Your budget is tight? Than have you considered and older reliable body with a few modern lenses? After all, it's the lens first, right? Let's say... Nikon F3 plus Nikkor AF 105 mm, f : 2.8 and/or 85 mm. f:1.8. and/or 35 mm, f:2. Just an idea.

-- Olivier (olreiche@videotron.ca), May 12, 2002.

Really, in SLR land you have a nice range of choices. Both Nikon and Canon make tough bodies ( F-100, EOS -1v ). The Nikon 85/1.4, or even better the Nikon 105/2 DC are excellent performers ( eventually coupled with a 28/1.4 Asph you have a nice 2 lens kit. Canons' 85/1.2L with a 35/1.4L is also a pretty killer kit ). I've shot with Contax , and the older non AE German lenses are in a class by themselves. Especially the 85/1.2 if you can find one, let alone afford it. For color work I prefer the Nikon, but Canon seems to come closer to the look of Leica B&W. Close, but not the same. Affordability? Get the Nikon 2nd hand. NY prices on used Nikon gear is up for bargaining. Just a thought.

-- Marc Williams (mwilliams111313MI@comcast.com), May 12, 2002.

I wonder why nobody seems to mention the Nikon 105 f1.8, the older manual focus one with the 62mm filter size. I use this lens on my FM2 and FE2 bodies and love it. It gives me beautiful results with character and a fingerprint similar to my 90 Elmarit-M. I use this this one lens alone and almost exclusively for actors headshots, and it has earned it's $500 price tag back for me so many times I've lost count. I cannot recommend this lens highly enough.

-- drew (swordfisher@hotmail.com), May 12, 2002.

Kristian,

I know you don't think the Leica R is a good value for the money, but here in the US I felt is was. I am very happy with my R8 and lenses. (most all bought used) Because I started off using SLR's, I find I am more comfortable using the R then my M6.

Of course the primary reason for using Leica is their glass. Because I like to travel light, I have been working to find a the right combination of primes/zoom for different situations. I have found the 24/35/90 set fits my needs 90% of the time. Some times I dump the 35 and take the 35-70/4.

I have been very happy with these lenses even though many feel the 24 and 90 are not the best R lenses.

Now I am looking at a small Canon kit for when I need AF, IS, and long lenses.

If I my suggest, if you going to move away from Leica, find something that your comfortable with, something you can expand, and something you can rent the more expensive glass for when you need it.

I am sure the Contax is great, but to me it has many of the same drawbacks Leica has, and none of the advantages of Nikon or Canon.

-- Scott G (PFD261@hotmail.com), May 12, 2002.

Thanks for all the help guys. The reason I sold my 90 APO is because I couldn't focus it fast enough, and that's after I managed to work out the focusing issues with a 1.25X magnifier. I think that for telephoto work above 50 wok it is tough to beat the SLR, except for low light (mirror slap).

I am a little concerned with reliability and servicing of the Contax/Zeiss combination. If I had a choice it would be the 85/1.2, but that's out of my league. I have about US$1000 plus my Summicron/50 (US$450) as trade to spend on a kit, totalling US$1450.

I have also used the 105/2.5 and 105/1.8 before and din't really like the contrast wide open on either lens, especially the 1.8. Compared to my old Nikkor AF 85/1.4D, these aren't as good as their reputation. I am also considering a Canon Elan 7 with EF 85/1.8 too. I like the EOS 1v, but not the EOS 3. Oh, I am confused.....what to do?

I think that I maay be bet off with my old FM3a/AF 85/1.4 combination like before and buy the new AF 50/1.8D with SB-30DX flash. I'd love the F100 but can't get together any more cash.

Any more recomendations?

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), May 12, 2002.

I also sold my 90 APO because the shutter speed range isn't fats enough, disallowing me to shoot at wide apertures in bright daylight.

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), May 12, 2002.

Actually I think I may go for a Canon Elan 7 with the EF 85mm f/1.8. Cheap, good quality optics, fast auto focus, quiet camera and relatively light weight. And I'll have plenty of change.

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), May 13, 2002.

I traded off all my old Nikon MF gear some time ago. I'd love an R8 and Leica lens but find them too expensive too. When I want an SLR with tele lens, I now use Canon EOS system camera with the excellent Canon 100/2 lens. Price, lens performance and camera body features suit me very well, plus I can use a Canon EOS IX for APS format or a D60 digital body as well as one of the 35mm film bodies with the same lenses and accessories.

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), May 13, 2002.

Krisrian,

1. The kind of equipment purchase/selling cycle you are falling into gets tremendously expensive very fast. But that is your problem obviously;

2. You have asked similar questions on SLR portrait combos about half a dozen times in the last few weeks. Many people have provided fully argued and illustrated responses, in private and public answers. Kind of irritating to see same questions popping up again, seemingly ignoring previous answers, and your own feedback to those answers. Why don't you address your questions on non_leica gear to the ad hoc specialised brand forums?

3. The Contax manual focus SLR line is being gradually terminated. The servicing on 2nd hand gear will not go on for ever. A 2nd hand RX might already be pretty old. Beware. The hardware and lenses are OK, but reliability of bodies can be an issue, as I have personally witnessed in the past with various bodies. Smoothness of operation is a reality with that range, but that does not necessarily mean less vibrations. I have used the CZ 85mm f1.4, and it is a very nice classic. Just as nice (no more no less) as equivalents in other ranges. Th 85mm f2.8 is 1 stop slower than all competitors, with absolutely no imaging advantage at any aperture. The 100mm f2 is leicaesque in price. The 135mm f2.8 does not focus close enough. The 35mm f1.4 is a very average lens (a long long way from your 'lux Asph).

4. Other alternatives exist, with similar quality and much better functionality. Minolta Dynax 7 and 9 come to mind, with the fantastic 85mm f1.4 and other unique specialised 'portrait' lenses (100mm SF, 135mm STF). The Canon (AF) and Nikon (AF and MF) offers are widely available, new and 2nd hand, with very good servicing capabilities for recent hardware. Quality potential in imaging terms is more than you (or I) will ever be capable of reaching with any of those lenses.

5. A f1.4 aperture is an asset (a f1.2 one even more so), that brings competitive advantages in real world terms (ease of focusing, comfort of view, low light capability). A SLR + 85mm f1.4 lens is a pretty universal combo, easy to use indoors, where you will end up using it anyway (unless you get rid of the rest of your M equipment). Longer focal lengths are less practical indoors.

6. Latest generation AF and latest generation flash management capability are nice to add to the cocktail. If you decide to go for 85mm f1.4, this leaves you with Dynax 7 or Nikon F100.

7. R8 is also to consider, if you are contaminated by the Sölms virus. I use the 100 macro elamrit, but I lust for the 80mm 'lux. And there is a R version of the APO Summicron 90/2 Asph on the way within the coming months. That one could be the final Graal....

-- Jacques (jacquesbalthazar@hotmail.com), May 13, 2002.

Been there, done that. I had an ST, 35 f1.4 and 85 f1.4 and I've also used the 25 f2.8, 35-70 f3.5 and 135 f2.

The short answer is that the lenses are superb, especially the 85. So why did I pass it along? Well, compared to the OM cameras I was used to and Leica M cameras the finder of the ST was rather dark, nowhere near the brightness/contrast of the new-type screen in an OM-4t and certainly not like an M finder. That coupled with the short focus throw of the 35 made it impossible for me to confidently focus the 35 at fairly close range in dim light; therefore having the 35 f1.4 was essentially useless.

The 85 otoh was wonderful, but I already had a wonderful Zuiko 100 f2 and really didn't need f1.4, so....

Anyway, my only gripes were with the dark finder and the 35 f1.4. Perhaps another body would work better with that lens. I didn't find any of the other lenses lacking in any way.

-- John Hicks (jhicks31@bellsouth.net), May 13, 2002.

Kristian, I agree with Kirk (similar experiences with contax rx, rts3 and 167mt) and Jacques (you seem to be spiralling round in a confusion of swapping and trading).

-- Steve Jones (stephenjjones@btopenworld.com), May 13, 2002.

Hi Kristian,

I have a RTS (the old one) for occasional use together with a 85/2.8 (among other lenses) and can say nothing but that I like it. Despite the age the body works flawlessly until now and the lens itself is great, very small, but also not very fast. Given the price difference I'd invest in the 1.4 - used prices are affordable. The 167mt seems to be a viable alternative to the RX, and there also is the ST as Kirk mentioned. Maybe even a used RTS 3 ? These seem to come down in price quite fast since Yashica announced the end of the mf line ...
The advantage in price may be a problem in future: Since the mf-line is discontinued there may be a spare part problem in future, be aware of that. But the prices are more than ok right now to justify an investment in - lets say - an used ST and a 85/1.4 for 1300 USD (prices are from ADORAMAs used list). You should be able to get a 50 / 1.7 thrown in as well ... and when choosing an 167 over an ST you may save also some 400$.

Newer bodies (from the 167 on) may have more problems (see Kirk and Johns answer) than older ones, but I know some people who also swear by them. And please don't blame me, but I heard of more people having problems with the Leica R - series than with Contax SLRs. If you're tight on budget Contax seems more reasonable than Leica, but Nikon also comes into mind with a FM2 or the FM3a (maybe also a F3 ?) and one of the nicer Nikkor shot tele lenses.

-- Kai Blanke (kai.blanke@iname.com), May 13, 2002.

At the risk of repeating myself, look to a Nikon body of your choice and the 105/2 DC lens. If you are indeed looking for a portrait lens to replace the 90, this fairly little known lens will astound you. It is built like a tank in the style of the Nikon Pro lenses of years past. It has a unique sort of 2nd "aperture-like" ring that allows you to shift where the DOF falls ( behind or in front of the subject ) at varying f/stops. Or you can simply use it straight without any shift of DOF. It is SHARP in the tradition of Nikon 105s. There is also a 135/2 version of the lens. The Canon 100/1.8 is not an L lens, it's not in the same league as other lenses being considered. Plus, Canon lenses do not give you the manual advantage of an aperture ring and on barrel aperature readings. It seems with some astute shopping, you could find a used F-100 and a medium tele for pretty close to the $1,450. you have to work with.

-- Marc Williams (mwilliams111313MI@comcast.net), May 13, 2002.

Elan 7 (skip the E stuff) and a 100/2.8 USM Macro (great portrait lens as well, and the macro allows you to get creative if you want) sets you back about $900. Not an L lens, but pretty darn good for the price. Similar Contax lens (only!) is + $1,600.

cheers, pat

-- pat (modlabs@yahoo.com), May 13, 2002.

Skip the Elan 7, it is a light-duty model with 1/125 flash sync and the AF is ok but not spectacular. For your $1000 you can get a nice used EOS 1N and either the 85/1.8 or 100/2, both of which are very nice and fast lenses.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), May 13, 2002.

Elan 7 is a great camera, but AF is not so good in low light. I personally fail to see the great significance of Contax 35mm SLRs, they seem to me to be a system that Contax have not actively supported and they are constantly changing, some of their lenses are excellent, some less so. I have no idea how much money you want to spend, but in my opinion s/h Leica R stuff is not necessarily outrageous and in fact can be cheap by Leica standards ($250 for a standard 50mm Summicron...). I consider the current s/h price for the R8 to be very good, for example, and you could pick up a 90mm Summicron or Elmarit for under $700. Both excellent lenses and very nice to use (the Summicron is nicer as it is faster). Any of these would produce great images and have the Leica feel and look. If you don't want Leica then I would go for Canon or Nikon and skip the Contax.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), May 13, 2002.

How about a new Canon EOS-1N ($900 at B&H in NYC) and a new Canon EF 135mm/f2 L lens ($775 at B&H)? You get a tough and professional grade camera body and a legendary Canon L lens! The Canon EF 85mm/f1.2 L lens is even better, but costs considerably more ($1430).

-- Muhammad Chishty (applemac97@aol.com), May 13, 2002.

buy a paintbrush, oils, and easel. not much of a hit when you switch to pastels, then to acrylic, then to charcoal, then to . . . .

-- roger michel (michel@tcn.org), May 13, 2002.

Kristian, I also have Contax equipment as well as a Leica M4P and 50F2 summicron. I originally bought it to get that Leica look from an SLR and replaced my Nikon system with a couple of lenses and a body. 10 years later I have the same lenses - an 85 F1.4 and a selection of other bits and pieces. I have added a 35 F1.4, a 180 F2.8, a 100 macro plus an RTS3 body. The 35 F1.4 must be the best quality lens I own - the results are simply stunning esp with K25. The 85 F1.4 is also excellent and very good value s/h at the moment with good examples around £350. I wouldnt buy an RX - it falls between 2 camps so it would either be an RTS 3 or an RTS2 if the built in motor isnt you forte. I did own an ST briefly and I cant believe the comments about the viewfinder brightness as it was one of the best around.

Mail me if you need some more info

Dave

-- David Tolcher (davidjt@btinternet.com), May 13, 2002.

Jacques, you wrote:

You have asked similar questions on SLR portrait combos about half a dozen times in the last few weeks. Many people have provided fully argued and illustrated responses, in private and public answers. Kind of irritating to see same questions popping up again, seemingly ignoring previous answers, and your own feedback to those answers. Why don't you address your questions on non_leica gear to the ad hoc specialised brand forums?

I am not sure what you are referring to. Please provide links to such posts, that I supposodly made.

My current choices are between a Canon EOS 1n/EF 85/1.8USM for US$900 mint OR, a Nikon body (???) with my old AF 85/1.4D. And Nikon's latest AF 50/1.8D looks to be very promising, seeeing there old onw was bloody good. I think it would quite easily replace my Summicron, except at f/2.

My preference for lenses is for the 85mm, then the 105mm. The 135mm is just too long for me. There is a Nikon AF 105/2 DC MINT for sale in my area for US$600 which sounds tempting over the US$750 price tag of the Nikon 85/1.4.

Also the Zeiss 85mm lens only focuses to 1m, which I see limiting no matter how good the optics are. But the 100/2 looks very tempting though, but probably over priced.

Gees, this is too difficult. if only I had an extra US$500 for the F100!!!! This decison wouldn't be so difficult.

thanks

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), May 13, 2002.

I am not sure what you are referring to. Please provide links to such posts, that I supposodly made.

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl? msg_id=008aFd
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl? msg_id=008KqE

-- Dexter Legaspi (dalegaspi@hotmail.com), May 13, 2002.

Ok, thanks for doing Jacques homework Dexter. Out to get me too?

Well, one post is related, but made back in March, and the other is not related. I was just interested in another lens for my old OM-1.

But half a dozen in the last few weeks? C'mon, you uys can do better than that. And how many posts have i made in others' benefit huh? And what about the critique i offer on people's photos?

Don't give me this shit! please

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), May 13, 2002.

Dexter Legaspi Are you the post police ,is he doing any harm ,is he upsetting anyone!it seems to me that many poeple are interested in this post...just where are you coming from.

-- allen herbert (allen1@btinternet.com), May 13, 2002.

Or more important what are you trying to achieve,i wonder

-- allen herbert (allen1@btinternet.com), May 13, 2002.

Kristian, tzzt,tzzt,tzzt... don't start again with foul language, you naughty boy, because you will have to apologize again, but everybody will have been shocked neverhteless..

-- Olivier (olreiche@videotron.ca), May 13, 2002.

Kristian, tzzt,tzzt,tzzt... don't start again with foul language, you naughty boy, because you will have to apologize again, but everybody will have been shocked nevertheless..

-- Olivier (olreiche@videotron.ca), May 13, 2002.

Not that I want to get dragged too far into this game, as the search capabilities on Lusenet are rather "rustic", but I repeat that you have been putting forward questions, as well as statements, on the topic of "oh boy I cannot focus that 90 saa and need to trade it against F100, Y or Z, what do you think?", at least half a dozen times in recent weeks. That is counting posts in various threads, not actual thread creation, where I find 'only' 3 thread creations (on top of the 90mm trade/selling threads.

In the 4 weeks prior to that, you have produced other clear cut statements saying how terrific the 90 saa is. In March, you produced statements such as "At f/2 it matches my old and loved Nikkor AF 85mm f/1.4 at f/4", "I just wanted to shout this out to the world as I am absolutely estatic", I must guess you had no problem focusing it at the time...

BTW, I do not have any problem searching my private inbox and sent items folder, but do not consider it proper to publicise private mails. However, the following sentence from you is innocuous enough not to violate privacy while illustrating my point: "I'd like a Dynax 9 or 7 with the 85mm f/1.4, but I need to find an easy trade. "

Now, since you challenged me, and by typing a couple of words in Google, I've just encountered some of your posts in other fora, such as a lens review where you describe your photo background as "professional" with "11-20 years experience". Which is a great achievement as you have presented yourself here last January as being 23! And statements regarding the 85mm f1.4 Nikkor AF such as "This lens will stay with me forever" (August 1). If I were your fiancée, I would worry about your promises of eternal commitment ! ;-)

Nothing wrong with all this. Part of the fun. My only gripe is that it is irritating to take someone's questions seriously, to the point of gathering illustrative images and posting them at his request, only to realise that such efforts are pretty useless, and seem forgotten after a few days...

-- Jacques (jacquesbalthazar@hotmail.com), May 14, 2002.

OK, you are right. All I want to do is stuff people around. I have nothing better to do with my time.

Then to you Jacques, on this ocassion- for the advice- thanks but no thanks.

ok?

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), May 14, 2002.

Jacques, for your information (and interested others), I have been involved with photography since I was 10 years of age. Does this make me a wiz at all gear? No, and THAT"S WHY I ASK FOR OTHER"S ADVICE. Like or not, you dont' need to comment, neither do you need to attack or question my experience or credibility.

Or maybe you do, just for kicks. Well then, so be it.

Any more suggestions or advice from productive forum members?

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), May 14, 2002.

Jacques, leave it alone. Give the guy a break. It IS sometimes difficult to ma ke a choice, there are so many good systems out there, and Kristian wants to put an end to his long quest for the affordable definitive system. So it is normal to be at a loss sometimes. Remarks about his private life («if I were you fiancée...») are of very bad taste and don't show much maturity from your part either. And let me tell you that I bought a lens from this guy a few weeks ago, and the transaction went smoothly, in a gentlemanly manner and right on time. This guy is no fool. He may get carried away from time to time, but he's no fool.

This being said, Kristian, I know you like the F100 and I've seen a couple on sale on eBay. I doubt they cost more than a Contax RX, and I understand you still have a couple of lenses in Nikon mount, right? Go for it. If you have to go back to SLR, I realy think the F100 is THE best value for the money. I had one, traded it, and regret it to this day. Yes, maybe the Zeiss lenses are a little bit better, but, budget-wise, Nikon is hard to beat. Don't try to have your cake and eat it. It never works. Cheers.

-- Olivier (olreiche@videotron.ca), May 14, 2002.

Every personal flame war aside, it seems to me that you have not yet made your decision. There are a lot of choices out there, from Nikon over Canon and Olympus to Leica and Contax to name a few. The difference between these systems is marginal, no large gaps here. All these optics are quite good, some may be a bit better than others.
But you as a user must feel comfortable with your decision. It is the same with me, whenever I have something nice, I go on looking instead of looking closely at what I have and use it to the limits. This is why I have a bunch of lenses for my Leicas, but did not work on my skills as far as I should have to. So if you find something you seem to like, go for it (i.e. rent it first for about 2 weeks), and try it to the limits. If it feels good and delivers the results you want, then keep / buy it, otherwise try the next.
Switching gear is tempting, of course, but does not give you better results. Lately I got a film back from my chinese 6*6 SLR and I found the results to be some of the best I produced, though about 10 of these cameras together are worth the cost of one Leica lens. And when I look at my old slides shot with a Praktika and a russian 50/1.7 in M42 mount, the results are about the same as those from my Leica or Contax with appropriate (and expensive) lenses.
What does this mean ? Before dropping a camera / lenses take your time and use them. This is not only true for Leica lenses, but for about everything new. It really takes time to to get used to, but then you are rewarded in better results than you may think of before. Just have a look at Glenns (?) pictures with an Elmar 2.8; I doubt I would get these with an elmar which I not yet have and buying one would not bring me closer to this, but maybe I have another lens which I may also use and which gives me equally nice pictures. But here no recommendations of other people help me; here I have to go out and shoot some pictures myself - and maybe you have reached this point now where one try is worth more than a thousand recommendations.

-- Kai Blanke (kai.blanke@iname.com), May 14, 2002.

ok Kristian, here's a straight answer from me: based on your posts, i'm given the impression that you really want the Nikon. buy the F100, man. don't settle for anything that you don't want...because you will find yourself selling it...which will be more expensive!

-- Dexter Legaspi (dalegaspi@hotmail.com), May 14, 2002.

Kristian, If it was me I would buy the Nikon 85 1.4 - Adorama lists it for $779 USD. You can always use an N-80 body for under $400. Gets you way under your price range. I use Canon and Leica R but I think the Nikon 85 1.4 is so good that it is one reason I would consider switching to Nikon, their Digital slr is another reason (D1X, D100). Another way to go is pick up an R4 or R4s $350-400 and a 90 elmarit or cron $500-600. Keeps you in Leica R. Lot of the R lenses are real bargains and I am back to using my R4 and liking it better than my R7. I have an excellent R4S that I am considering letting go. I mean how many R bodies do I need. Good luck.

-- Gil Pruitt (wgpinc@yahoo.com), May 14, 2002.

Oliver, My "remarks about his private life " were not remarks at all, but a tongue in cheek hint, accompanied by a smiley. I hope that is how it has been understood. Kristian has always been forthcoming in supplying here private details about his life, including the status of his girlfriend ("fiancée"), her name, and pictures of her. And she is lovely !

I am way too paranoid to ever share such private details in a public site myself BTW...

On a more general behaviour topic: I seem to get into conflict by the sole fact that I have a tendency to take people seriously when I read them, to remember what they write and to feel and express disappointment when I encounter blatant incoherence or self-denial. Kristian is not the only one of us showing such a lack of coherence.

People (the well known "lurker") do make (or change) buying/selling decisions according to what they read here and in other web resources. I have been personally influenced in that respect, and have spent cash based on evaluations I have read in newsgroups. You, I, and all posters (should) take responsibility for what we state, recommend or denounce, and (should) think twice before posting extactic comments or other positive or negative recommendations. It is very easy to pose as "specialists" or "pros" even when we really are incompetent bored wannabees with a computer and too much time on our hands.

Also, when you ask questions to others, you should respect the time and the work spent to provide documented answers. I personally spent well over an hour scanning illustrative pics to respond to a previous request on same topic by Kristian, others have spent time on this as well, I'm sure. It is legitimate to feel irritated when you realise that whatever answers are supplied, the guy seems keen to start from scratch again and require more of the same.

-- Jacques (jacquesbalthazar@hotmail.com), May 14, 2002.

the guy seems keen to start from scratch again and require more of the same

I can understand Kristian on what would seem a endless quest.I am trying to decide what backup i should choose for my Leica M6,i do not really want to make a mistake.I feel like posting thousands of times till i have heard every point of view,it is just human nature.We are talking about real money.Members of the forum should be pleased that other members seek their views,and respect then enought to ask.

-- allen herbert (allen1@btinternet.com), May 14, 2002.

OK, I understand where Jacques is comming from and he has a good point. But it doesn't make it any easier to make these decisions when I am not supported thats all.

No hard feelings jacques ok :-)

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), May 14, 2002.

Jacques, I do have some advice.

Assumption and insinuation leads to trouble. Be wise with your comments, and speak as you would if the person/people is/are right in front of you.

That way, respect is maintained.

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), May 15, 2002.

Well I ended up with the FM3a and the AF DC 105mm f/2D lens. An awesome combination that I hope will deliver.

Thanks to everyone.

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), May 17, 2002.