Dyer out of world cup

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BBC 5 Live have just reported that LKD is definitely out of the world cup. I'm absolutely gutted for the lad but still feel that he should have played yesterday. Blame El Khalej not Bobby Robson.
Let's hope that Keiron can pick himself up from this hammer blow and start working towards Euro 2004.

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2002

Answers

AP

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2002

Baloney - he most definitely should not have played yesterday, and his absence from the WC squad - if confirmed - simply endorses that point, to the hilt actually.

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2002

BR is admitting that he almost left KD out of yesterday's game to protect his WC place. He is saying that Dyer himself wanted to play because of his general lack of match fitness, and so Bobby relented.

Perhaps the Manager should decide who plays, and who doesn't.

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2002


Baloney to you too Clarky! You can't mitigate for an ill timed or malicous challenge. If Jenas, McClen or Acuna had played in place of Dyer and El Khalej had maimed him there would still have been a Nwecastle player badly injured and I personally don't find much consolation in thinking "oh well at least they didn't miss out on the world cup"
Personally I feel that a players first duty should be to his club rather than country. Presumably the club managers who played the following set of players yesterday would agree:
  • Cole
  • Vassell
  • Martyn
  • Ferdinand
  • Southgate
  • Sheringham
  • Gerrard
  • Heskey
  • Owen
  • Brown
  • Scholes
  • Bridge

    -- Anonymous, May 12, 2002

  • Sky Sports News said he has knee ligament damage and will be unable to train for 4 weeks. After that he needs a further week before he can play.

    So if England did bring him along, he wouldn't be able to play in any of the group matches, as SSN also reckon SGE is considering taking him along anyway in the off chance that we make the quarter finals.

    They also report Steven Gerrard is probably out of the world cup, which from an England perspective is a MUCH bigger blow as he is the only player we have that can perform a role like that.

    Dyer is a special player, but on the left is not his best position and it's unlikely we'd see the best from him there. But Gerrard is our only defensive midfielder and we will really struggle without him. Gerrard was also injured yesterday in a game where he could have perhaps been rested.

    -- Anonymous, May 12, 2002



    From skysports.com:

    DYER NEWS FOR SVEN GIVES MURPHY CUP CHANCE

    Kieron Dyer will miss the World Cup finals after scans on his injured knee revealed ligament damage, and there are fears fellow midfielder Steven Gerrard may need an operation on his groin.

    Scans on Dyer's knee, injured in a reckless tackle by Southampton defender Tahar El-Khalej, revealed ligament damage, and Sven Goran Eriksson admitted it would need 'a miracle' for the Newcastle man to make the finals.

    It is expected to be four weeks before Dyer can resume training, midway through England's Group F schedule, and Liverpool's Danny Murphy has been called up from standby.

    A downbeat Eriksson said: "I feel very sorry for Dyer - he has been extremely unlucky. What happened was not a muscle problem but a bad tackle and that happens in football.

    "He is absolutely destroyed. It's a knee ligament problem, and even if everything goes 100% well it can take at least four weeks to recover."

    Murphy's Anfield team-mate Gerrard limped out of his side's last-day win over Ipswich, and he will see a surgeon this week to determine whether or not he needs surgery.

    But he is definitely out of the training trip to Dubai, and the signs are not good.

    Eriksson confirmed: "Steven Gerrard is not coming with us tomorrow. So that means that Beckham has some problems, Butt some problems, Dyer almost for sure out, and Gerrard some problems.

    "But we will have to wait on Steven, but I spoke to doctors today and they were not optimistic at all. This Sunday has not started well at all."

    West Ham's Trevor Sinclair has been placed on standby, and is the likely replacement should Gerrard fail to make the trip.

    Eriksson refused to bemoan his misfortune, though, and expressed faith in the remaining members of his squad to make the Korea/Japan a success.

    "I know that we might play without two very good footballers, three with Gary Neville as well, but we have a lot of good players and I go there optimistic," he said.

    -- Anonymous, May 12, 2002


    Well, seeing as how you raise it SE, very few of those players needed to play yesterday, and yes I would certainly question the advisability of them being selected.

    The insensitivity of other Managers doesn't prove your case - it only shows how little they value Englands cause.

    -- Anonymous, May 12, 2002


    I also can't agree with you Clarky - Bobby Robson is entitled to play any player he wishes. In my view, and Dyer's it seems, he still needed 90 mins of football to build up stamina. It's not as if he's aggravated an injury or had a strain due to a lack of fitness - it was a bad tackle and as I've said previously on here - you can't legislate for that.

    It's devastating for Dyer but I think England have enough players to cope.

    -- Anonymous, May 12, 2002


    No Robson should chose who he likes and the WC is not his, nor NUFC's concern.

    I'd like to see this animal who tackled Dyer though, suffer FAR worse than a 3 match ban ...



    -- Anonymous, May 12, 2002

    Well, I'm a voice in the wilderness, but that will not cause me to change my opinion.

    Clearly everyone else is of the view that the cause of England is utterly unimportant and irrelevant, and that the PL clubs have no responsibilty whatsoever to support England's cause. This extends to willingly risking key players - NOT in important fixtures affecting the Championship and/or relegation - but in totally unimportant end-of season fixtures when ready alternatives were available.

    The Clubs certainly do have this right, and have exercised it - that is why England have now been robbed of Kieron Dyer and probably Stephen Gerrard for the WC. Thank you very much Newcastle United and Liverpool.

    Please note - I would not criticise ManU for playing Scholes and Wes Brown yesterday, because they needed to win to finish 2nd and avoid the CL Qualifying round - this made total sense. The success of the England team is important, and in that context our decision was crass and made zero sense.

    -- Anonymous, May 12, 2002



    I'm not convinced, Clarky, that either of the games in question was unimportant. Finishing second was VERY important for Liverpool and the game was hugely significant for Ipswich and Sunderland. Our match was worth potentially £2.5 million to Southampton because of their possible finishing places. Is there such a thing as a meaningless game in the Prem these days?

    -- Anonymous, May 12, 2002

    Sounds like you're feeling all alone out there Mr. Clark - didn't you see my non-too dissimilar comments on the "Latest on Kieron Dyer" and Southampton match day threads?

    I'm gutted for the lad, nevertheless IT WAS (AND SHOULD BE) MR. ROBSON'S DECISION AND PREROGATIVE :-(

    -- Anonymous, May 12, 2002


    Clarky

    I understand your sentiment BUT do you take it further and never pick a player the weekend before a Euro 2004 qualifier ? This is exactly the opposite to the Man U approach which says the player (Giggs say) should be "injured" for the interneational.

    I feel for the lad, but blaming Robson is wrong. The Southampton player shot the bullet, Robson only allowed Dyer to play in a game of football.

    It's happened, nothing doing now.

    -- Anonymous, May 12, 2002


    Is there no possibility that, in the circumstances, last game of the season and this close to the world cup off, that Sven does liaise with the various team managers? It would seem a sensible and polite thing to do. So I`m wondering if Sven himself wanted to see Dyer get another full match under his belt. Just a thought.

    I. personally, wouldn`t have played Dyer or Shay. We could have afforded to use the Southampton game to exercise a few different players - might have been quite useful for the off season decisions. One or two players who don`t get much in the way of first team match practice may have been feeling a darn sight more inspired(interested) than some of the players who were out there.(:o)

    -- Anonymous, May 12, 2002


    Well, I was with Clarky when he started, then against him and finally with him again! Yesterday's game was of absolutely noconsequence to NUFC in terms of the result. But it mattered a lot for Given, O'Brien and Little Kevin. IMHO, none of them should have played to "reward" them for their season's efforts and to ensure no mishap prior to the WC.

    With regard to Sell/Buy Ellana's list, the following should have played for their clubs yesterday: Gerrard, Heskey, Owen, Brown, Scholes. Their clubs had a major opportunity to qualify directly for the CL and those teams should have played their strongest 11. England have done NUFC a favour or two in the past (only playing LKD for 45 mins recently). NUFC could have repaid the favour.

    However, if as reported. YBR relented in the face of pressure from Dyer, then I respect both party's judgement. But I'm still on Clarky's side - he paid for a rather nice dinner last night. Cheers marra!

    -- Anonymous, May 12, 2002



    The deciding factor had to be that Dyer NEEDED to play to improve his match fitness. Personally, I wouldn't have played him for a number of reasons... I'd like to see Jenas in another full game for one (though he's more of a Speed understudy than a Dyer)

    Anyho... what's done is done and I hope the lad can recover fully and be an asset to US next season.

    -- Anonymous, May 12, 2002


    Macbeth - these decisions depend entirely on the prevailing circumstances. The importance of the game(s) being played to the relevent Club(s) - and indeed other Clubs where relegation issues are involved - has to be taken fundamentally into account.

    Someone has argued that 3 points yesterday meant £2.5m to S'ton - therfore it was perhaps reasonable for them to include Wayne Bridge. The result of the game in substantive terms meant jack-sh*t to NUFC - but losing Kieron Dyer meant everything to Dyer himself, and was extremely important to England or he wouldn't have been selected for the squad in the 1st place.

    As Galaxy has suggested, simple common sense and good man management dictated that Given and Dyer should not have put at risk yesterday. Despite his keeness to play, I suspect KD will wish today that wiser council had indeed prevailed in that particular decision.

    -- Anonymous, May 12, 2002


    Funnily enough, had Robson not put out our best squad I could envisage your getting all bent out of shape for his not giving Shearer his best possible chance to win the Golden Boot. There's just no pleasing some people ;-)

    p.s. Bollocks to Ingerlund - every game we can get out of Kieron Dyer should be grabbed with both hands after the amount of time he's been paid to sit on his backside.

    -- Anonymous, May 12, 2002


    All right, here's a tiny silver lining to a big black cloud for the young man himself, always assuming we'd like to keep LKD for a while. (and I'm another on the 'why risk it?' side as far as yesterday goes. But it was Bobby's call on the day and always has to be.)

    LKD's not going, apparently it just isn't going to happen. Which means he will not get a chance THIS World Cup to really show the world what he is made of.

    If he had done just that, just think. In the current global television football saturation, some big Italian/Spanish/whatever club could have swooped in, made Freddy an offer he couldn't refuse and LKD'd have been gone before next season started. Maybe to sit on the bench abroad for a fair bit of his time with lots of other mini- superstars.

    I am so, so sorry for him. But he is still young and he'll be coming into his Prime by World Cup 2006, indeed probably having been an integral part of the NUFC Championship winning sides of 2004, 2005 and 2006 !!

    Just a thought.

    -- Anonymous, May 12, 2002


    Dyer is the same age as Beckham was in Italy. The change in Beckham should be held up in front of Dyer as somethign to aim for. If Dyer progreeses as much as Beckham has, because the same sense of hurt, then it'll all be for the best in the long run.

    -- Anonymous, May 12, 2002

    I personally would not have played /risked KD yesterday, but I don't have a problem with Bobby having selected him or he himself wanting to play. People get injured in training but we can't not do it!

    Yesterday was a great opportunity to play other people in the team and so what if our weaker team got "stuffed 3 - 1" I would have loved to have seen Michael Chopra for at least 45 minutes, Harper for the whole game, Jenas, and even give Mclen a bit of a run out.

    I agree with SE "Blame El Khalej not Bobby Robson" I also think El Khalej knows exactly what he has done and I am sad not to have seen at least an apology from him to Dyer...He tried to do that on the Pitch but wor Al told him where to go in no uncertain terms. I hope EK does not sleep easily at night.

    Gutted for KD. Get well soon Kid

    -- Anonymous, May 12, 2002


    Gutted for Dyer and believe that he shouldn't have played yesterday but Blame the FA not Bobby. If it is ligament damage, we will be lucky if he is fit for the start of the season.

    Could somebody please explain to me why the FA Cup was not the last game of the season? Surely all fixtures should have been completed last week and only Cole, Seaman and Keown played this weekend. Obviously players could still have been injured had they played last week but it would have given Sven more time to pick his team and the players an extra weeks rest. England will never win anything with muppets in charge of the FA.

    -- Anonymous, May 12, 2002


    Kegsy, believe it or not the FA Cup Final was moved forward a week in order to assist the England team. Quite how this helped I don`t know (in fact to any reasonable person it would seem to have had the opposite effect) but the FA did trot out some justification for it. I think we may even have discussed it on the BBS a few months ago - anyone remember?

    -- Anonymous, May 13, 2002

    Clarky, as far as I can gather Dyer hasn`t aggravated an existing injury - I would agree with you wholeheartedly if that was what happened. But given that the lad was a.not injured, b. was apparently in need of a run out c. wanted to play and d. is a Newcastle player then I don`t see why Robson should have rested him. It`s not as though the World Cup starts tomorrow, it`s 3 weeks until England play, so where do you draw the line? Should we have left him out of the West Ham game too? (if he had been fit).

    -- Anonymous, May 13, 2002

    Hey Clarky, didn't you pick Dyer and Given in the team pick competition?!!!!!

    -- Anonymous, May 13, 2002

    Jacko - it's all my fault. How can KD ever forgive me? ;o{)

    -- Anonymous, May 13, 2002

    Clarky, don't worry anout it, you had to, you may not have won the tipping competition otherwise

    -- Anonymous, May 13, 2002

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