Hi there. I want to preface this post by saying that I am not a new breed of you know who. But I also don't pull any punches. I am a copy editor at a newspaper where criticism of mistakes is harsh but fair. I can take what I dish out, but I am not prone to histrionics.

That being said, I am hoping to post some pictures here in the coming weeks and I hope you will not treat me with kid gloves, but rather will call a tyro on his misconceptions.

I've been browsing both the archive pics and responses. While photography and appreciation of engineering may be your strong points, criticism, on the whole, is not.

Let me open a can of worms here and start out by talking about Mike Dixon. It is time to let the gimlet-eye out. From reading his posts here, I can tell that Mike is admirably passionate about his craft; he is modest as well as generous with his advice. Kudos, on all of these points.

Actually, I have more problems with the responses to his photography than I do with Mike's stuff. Mike's technique is certainly enviable, I'll be the first to admit that. I especially like his pic of the guys at the bar and the one of the senescent praetorian standing outside the storefront, hands on hips, staring full on into the depth of the lens. These are very good.

But a lot of his model shots leave me cold, and I am especially disappointed when I see his "street shots" of women at the bar or at the cafe, the sneaks from behind, through the window, or from the other side of the room. The models and their interaction with the camera often strike me as slightly uncomfortable and reserved or appallingly narcissistic. There is no middle ground, no illusion, no deeper revelation of his subject's humanity. I can think of one exception, the photo Mike posted of a young woman leaning over a car. That photo has a very chic fifties resonance.

My intention here isn't to lash out at Mike, far from it.

I would not like it if people try to hold my hand in order to avoid hurting my feelings. I think that is done far too often on this forum. I will post soon. When I do, give me all you've got. Bring your eye and your experience. Do not vitiate your criticism with insults. Bring it on. I cannot wait to start learning from such a wealth of talent.

And once again, I want to thank all of you for the contributions you have given me so far. I would have never bought this beautiful machine if I hadn't had such great advice. I don't think I'll ever be able to separate the idea of my camera from the names and words on this forum.

Cheers,

-- Hyatt Lee (shahmat@ms63.hinet.net), May 11, 2002

Answers

That said, Hyatt, let's see the work. (And I happen to agree with the gamet of your Dixon comments).

-- Patrick (pg@patrickgarner.com), May 11, 2002.

Why just comment on Mike Dixon there are many fine photographers on this forum.

-- allen herbert (allen1@btinternet.com), May 11, 2002.

Good point. Well, actually when I was writing the post, I also thought about talking about Jeff Spirer's photos but then I thought maybe it was already long winded enough. I chose Mike because he seems to get a lot of adulatory prose thrown his way. I didn't want to overstay my welcome.

-- Hyatt Lee (shahmat@ms63.hinet.net), May 11, 2002.

I often enjoy looking at what different people submit, even though it may not be the type of photography that I personally am interested in. I think in general the main thing is for people to have respect for one another and take a minute before commenting on an image to make shure it isn't written in an insulting manner. Unlike your work environment, people aren't getting paid to submit their photos here!

I don't believe in the "show me your best pictures or else I will not value your comments" mentality that comes up on many of the photo web sites. Its a personal choice to submit images for critique. I'm still not convinced the internet is the best forum for doing so, and I am more comfortable sharing images in print with some close friend photographers I know in person. I don't think We don't really know who "the best photographers" are of the people who post here, nor do I think that is the purpose of the forum.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), May 11, 2002.

Andrew, I don't understand what was insulting. You say that you don't agree with the "show me your best pictures or else I will not value your comments" attitude. Well, neither do I.

What I was trying to point out is that constructive criticism can be very helpful. If you or whoever posts a picture and all they get in return is a string of "great pic" comments, how will it improve the work? I don't think everyone here is looking for an Internet vanity press.

Having said that, I realize that people use this forum for a number of reasons. I want to know if there are some folks out there like me who appreciate sound, experienced feedback. Criticism is what you make of it. If you know your work or yourself well enough, you can figure out which comments aren't applicable to what you are trying to do and ignore them as well as recognize comments that might help you improve. But(I know I am repeating myself)if all you hear are the compliments, what then? You lose out on chances to progress.

-- Hyatt Lee (shahmat@ms63.hinet.net), May 11, 2002.

geez, man, just post the image or images.

-- Dexter Legaspi (dalegaspi@hotmail.com), May 11, 2002.

I wasn't commenting that anything you said above was insulting, just that in general the internet critique forums tend to lean in that direction. Being respectful in a critique to me doesn't mean pandering to poor work either, but to give specifics about what it is about an image you don't care for. Post some images, and I'll be happy to take a look at them.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), May 11, 2002.

Hyatt, I post photos often. Sometimes, more often than at other times. But, I never ask for, or want a critique. And if you read your own post(s), you'll see the reason why.

-- Glenn Travis (leicaddict@hotmail.com), May 11, 2002.

Mike, I love ya, baby! Just keep of truck'ng! And if the Pig gets in your way, run'em down! All dem pretty flowers, all in da row-Leitz M6, Elmar-M 50mm 1:2.8, B+W KR1.5 MRC, Fuji Sensia II 200, Poloraid SprintScan 4000:

-- Glenn Travis (leicaddict@hotmail.com), May 12, 2002.

Hyatt, with all due respect, you do not present the credentials necessary to assume the role of critic here. You certainly are entitled to your personal opinion, but please don't wrap them in a blanket of authority. The work here is personal art of varying degree that happens to be produced using Leica equipment. The images are posted to show the abilities of that equipment so others can learn more about Leica possibilities. As an advertising Executive Creative Director with an Art-Director background, I've seen, selected and purchased more nationally published photography than I care to count. Including hireing the biggest names in photography from most every catagory of specialization ( among which are many fine art photographers ). This does not entitle me to critique anyone's work here...just look, enjoy and learn something about the amazing litte camera with the astounding lenses called Leica. Mike, Jeff..others....where are those pictures! Anyone got something shot with a 24 and/or 21.? I've got the 21 but am thinking about the 24 Asph. LOVE this forum. Where are the Nocti shooters? Come on, post 'em.

-- Marc Williams (mwilliams111313MI@comcast.net), May 12, 2002.

Glenn, excellent photo .

What filter did u use? UV?

The Elmar was good, but u were better here. ;)

Keep posting.

-- Travis (teckyy@hotmail.com), May 12, 2002.

I've posted photos here from occasionally, but I've never asked for a critique either. I don't feel that I have the right to impose on the group that way.

Technical questions are a different matter. If someone has the answer, it's simple to post a response. Photo critique is a different matter, it can require a significant amount of thought and effort to critique a photo properly. To make things worse, people come here and DEMAND that their photos receive a critique that is helpful and constructive. What's this based on? Scanning and posting a photo doesn't entitle you to anything.

This is a photography forum, so if folks want to post photographs, that's fine with me. But I find it extremely presumptuous when people feel that they have the right to tell the forum what they must or must not do in response to their photos. If you want those kind of expectations, use one of the photo critique forums which have a quid pro quo in place.

-- Joe Buechler (jbuechler@toad.net), May 12, 2002.

I am with Andrew here. I don't post either, because I quite frankly can't be bothered, but I like others doing so, but the assumption that just because I don't makes me a non-photographer is a complete failure in logic. Many of the people who regularly post here are professionals, or aspiring professionals, so it is in their commercial interest to post.

Hyatt, go ahead and post. You need thick skin - but you will know which comments are useful and which are not.

P.S. I love your term "senescent praetorian" that you used in your posting. I have visions of an aging ancient Roman soldier. I cannot imagine the image to which you are referring however!

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), May 13, 2002.