Does 'bo-ke' matter? (Critique opportunity)

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One of my nicer recent shots - taken with the SL and the compact preAPO 180 f/2.8 at a large aperture.

I think even in documentary shots some parts of the picture will be out-of-focus, and that we, as photographers, are responsible for those parts of the picture as well as the sharp bits.

The 'soft jelly-bean' highlight on the forehead at top left, BTW, semms to be a signature 'fingerprint' effect from this lens.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), May 09, 2002

Answers

I like the shot, but the appeal of bokeh is lost on me. I agree that the photographer is accountable to the whole frame--but why would a documentary photographer not shoot with a wide aperture?

It really is a nice shot, very lively, colors are rich.

-- Preston Merchant (merchant@speakeasy.org), May 09, 2002.


Nice, but I think I would have focused someplace else.

-- Dave Jenkins (djphoto@vol.com), May 09, 2002.

my extensive scientific studies in reviewing images have shown that the eyes don't always direct themselves to areas of high-contrast first. this image is a perfect example. then again, my lens of choice wouldn't even find the boy in the field of view.

-- daniel taylor (lightsmythe@agalis.net), May 09, 2002.

Hey! I know that old clarinet player.

-- pinhead (blieb@sheridanross.com), May 09, 2002.

Andy, it's a great picture, and I would have done the same, he -- his hands and his instrument -- being the things to get most focussed on are the one thing (with the object and crouds behind her being secondary) are the other, but isn't bokeh actually something else?

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), May 09, 2002.


Kind of looks like he is taking a sip off the tap there doesn't he?

-- pinhead (blieb@sheridanross.com), May 09, 2002.

Hi Andy-

The out of focus areas are nice to my eye. In contrast to some of the other responses, I also think your focus is right on. To me, more importantly is how all elements work together compositionally and geometrically, whether they are in focus or not. There is a lot going on in the frame and it works.

It's a good shot man.

-- jeff voorhees (debontekou@yahoo.com), May 09, 2002.


Michael: Bo-ke (bokeh, bouquet, whatever), to my understanding, is the way a lens renders things out-of-focus. Some folks also include the way a lens renders the transition from sharp to OOF, but in this case the transition occurs 'in mid-air' so you can't see it except maybe in the tip of the clarinet.

A Nikon 180 ED would have, for example, rendered that OOF bright spot on the head of the guy in the background brighter, with a sharper edge, with a hint of a bright rim, and (at apertures smaller than 2.8) with some polygonal edges from the aperture blades.

All: as to where each of us would place the focus (!) I guess that may depend on hormone levels. Mine (alas) are probably closer to the clarinetist's than to the dancer's, at least in age.

Pinhead: it's called 'subliminal advertising'. A little something 'extra' that turns you on without being obvious. 8^)

I've been trying to figure out how to photograph this guy (a fixture on Denver's 16th Street pedestrian mall) for 7-8 years.

I was actually borrowing this lens from a camera store to try out when I turned the corner and saw a couple of girls dancing to his tune ("Boogie-woogie Bugle Boy from Company B").

Bought the lens the next day once I saw this slide.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), May 09, 2002.


I agree, this is a very appealing shot. I do like the. selection of focus, color, sense of movement, contrasts. and bokeh. you should be very proud/pleased w/ this photo.

-- pat (modlabs@yahoo.com), May 09, 2002.

The title of the thread states "critiqe opportunity"; so here goes: unlike the other respondents, I don't like this picture at all because the in-focus player and his in-focus instrument lead the eye to the dancer, who is out-of-focus. Looking at the latter almost makes the eyes hurt, in my view. To me this is a failed picture.

-- Mitch Alland/Paris (malland@mac.com), May 09, 2002.


Andy,

GREAT SHOT!!! I wish I had taken it!

-- Todd Phillips (toddvphillips@webtv.net), May 09, 2002.


I also like this shot. It's dynamic, the color works well, the two planes of focus create an interaction that goes beyond the obvious. Nicely done.

-- Jeff Spirer (jeff@spirer.com), May 09, 2002.

Wonderful shot. Ignore anyone who says it isn't (but isn't it fascinating how the opinions are all over?!) Nicely done.

-- Patrick (pg@patrickgarner.com), May 09, 2002.

Sometimes photography transcends into art. From the decisive moment of the instrument engulfing the breast, to the erotic abandonment, to the metaphorical india snake charmer, to the simplicity of the dynamic. Print, mat, frame, and hang on wall.

-- Glenn Travis (leicaddict@hotmail.com), May 09, 2002.

trying to post a response got booted twice. therefore by nec. the response gets shorter.

put it on my wall, i like it.

one stop smaller might have worked better bringing more detail in the oof area where the guys are.

in contrast, one stop bigger might have worked better in my baby shot - previous post.

-- steve (leitz_not_leica@hotmail.com), May 09, 2002.



like Dave jenkins,i'd have had my eye elsewhere.luv the shot though. some lenses do weird out of focus...my Takumar(Pentax)200mmf3.5 made to fit Nikon-F by a Magnum photographer give these elongated out of focus areas.With a Leica m one works more in the dark to such results...one disadvantage of viewfinder.Yet i still prefer it! i "see" more photos with a Leica M...

-- jason gold (leeu72@hotmail.com), May 09, 2002.

I really like this shot, great job.

-- Rob Schopke (schopke@attbi.com), May 09, 2002.

I would've preferred the bell of the horn not quite on her boob- maybe closer to her stomach. It would be different snap to be sure- more an homage to her. It feels a bit overdone here.

Neat OOF and such tho'. What previsualization this'd taken if you used an M. Thanks for posting it.

-- TS (tsesung@yahoo.com), May 10, 2002.


Good one Andy, about boke?, well this picīs behion that.

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), May 10, 2002.

Wonderful shot Andy, congrats!

-- Eric Kragtwijk (e.kragtwijk@hccnet.nl), May 10, 2002.

I like it, very much. It has mood, gives a sence of being there and tells a story! Placement is not an issue, you wouldn't have had much choise. The image catches my eye by way of contrast and slight diagnal form. To me the girl is subserviant to the image and therefore quite fine being out of focus infering depth. The eye is not confussed seeking what to look at, and I recon the image wouldn't rate a second glance if the claronet was a bit off focus. And if the girl was sharp the forground would be cluttered. My penny's worth anyway.

Thankyou for the oppertunity of seing it.-- GP

-- Greg Pratt (gregpan@ozemail,com.au), May 12, 2002.


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