Dear Leica friends, This is my experience of new film loading with my brand new M7. When you are putting a new film in the M7 boby, don't forget to set on manual speed position before taking two fotos until film counter is set on 0 position. I forgot it and, in low light conditions, I winded, in auto position, long exposure, before the shutter was closed. Result: everything locked. Solution, rewind the film and take it out of the camera, put on manual position and let it work manually one or two times, then put your film again in the camera...and pray. For my camera, everything is OK now. I told my photo dealer, he answered that problem was impossible... but it happened. Over a few days we could read on this forum the same kind of shutter problems, our friend wasn't as lucky as me. Be careful. Best regards from Belgium Michel

-- michel vandeput (michel.vandeput@ville.namur.be), May 06, 2002

Answers

A voice keeps whispering, "One step closer to perfection."

-- George and David (davecasman@yahoo.com), May 06, 2002.

This isn't a problem that is unique to the Leica M7. Every autoexposure manual-wind camera has had the same problem for years.

One simply has to get in the habit of setting the camera to a fast manual shutter speed when loading film.

Michael

www.luminous-landscape.com

-- Michael Reichmann (mreichmann@rogers.com), May 06, 2002.

Michel:

And another voice keeps whispering: "Two steps behind the Konica Hexar RF", which accepts the end of the leader near the right end of the chamber.

When the lid is closed and the shutter released, I hear a friendly, almost inaudible whirrrr for less than 1 second and the film is at the first frame. It hasn't failed me in over a year and dozens of rolls. I keep a spare battery in the case, but have not had to replace the original in all the time I have had it. But I will not sell my Leica kit!!!

Cheers

-- RICHARD ILOMAKI (richardjx@hotmail.com), May 06, 2002.

Thank you, Michel. It happens to me all the time, and I keep forgetting it. And by the way, Richard, if your M had automatic loading like the Hexar, it wouldn't be a M, right? It would be... a Hexar, only better. Or it would be an even more expensive M, and even more battery dependent: dead battery, you'd still have two manual speeds... and no film.

-- Olivier Reichenbach (olreiche@videotron.ca), May 06, 2002.

Do I understand the problem correctly: If you try to wind the film while the shutter is open in auto mode, it jams?
If this is the situation, then the statement "Every autoexposure manual-wind camera has had the same problem for years" is false.
I don't know which cameras Michael Reichmann are refering to, but it is not possible to jam a Nikon FE/FE2 or F3 this way - and IMO shouldn't be possible on any camera made to professional standards.

-- Niels H. S. Nielsen (nhsn@ruc.dk), May 06, 2002.

My word! Absurd!

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), May 06, 2002.

AFAIK the R bodies' film transport is locked when the shutter is open, making winding impossible. I've never tried winding a manual M camera while the shutter was open (like on 1 sec)...and I don't think I'm about to...but if the M7 doesn't have such a lock-out it's a major design omission to be sure.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), May 06, 2002.

The camera is NOT locked up. It is counting down the 32- second maximum exposure, and can be interrupted by turning the shutter dial either way.

-- J. Gilbert Plantinga (gilplant@hvc.rr.com), May 06, 2002.

J Gilbert has the solution, with my R7, when this happens, I just turn the knob to OFF position and the shutter closes itself.

Been on that routine since the begining.

Cheers. X.

-- Xavier d'Alfort (hot_billexf@hotmail.com), May 06, 2002.

Don't blame Leica for not anticipating every different way that every user would misuse his camera. If you follow the instructions, none of this would happen. Who ever heard of loading a camera (or doing anything to it) with the shutter wide open? 'One step closer to perfection' does presume you follow the directions. How about a little common sense?

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), May 06, 2002.

"Don't blame Leica for not anticipating every different way that every user would misuse his camera. If you follow the instructions, none of this would happen. Who ever heard of loading a camera (or doing anything to it) with the shutter wide open? 'One step closer to perfection' does presume you follow the directions. How about a little common sense?"

How about Leica learning from others? :) You see, Nikon addressed this 20 years ago on their aperture priority F3 - it defaults to 1/80th of a second until the film counter hits "1". And please don't say you're wasting exposures - if you can afford an M7 or R8 you can certainly afford an extra roll of film :)

-- M3 user (sal3060@yahoo.com), May 06, 2002.

i accidentally did that w/an f2 while in a shop looking for my first serious camera (from 110 film kodak 60 rf). stroked it before the shutter closed, jammed. it didn't seem to bother the clerk too much, but hey i was only 15. i did buy the camera (same shop) and a 55, 1.2 (i think) to go with it. talk about big glass.

-- steve (leitz_not_leica@hotmail.com), May 06, 2002.

I remember reading in another auto camera's instruction book a suggestion to point the camera towards a bright light when loading, without a lens cap on. That way it will choose a fast enough speed for the empty frames.

Though I prefer to shoot the empty ones black, so I would probably choose fast manual speeds if I had an M7.

-- Ilkka (ikuu65@hotmail.com), May 06, 2002.

Choose "Manual", shutter Speed 1/1000, apature setting f/16, lens cap on, and then fire off those first two shots.

-- George C. Berger (gberger@his.com), May 06, 2002.

If the camera is on auto and you press the shutter release with a lenscap on, it will count down the maximum timed automatic exposure of 38 sec before closing the shutter (the manual says 32 sec, but it can actually time up to 38 sec). So you shoud set the shutter speed to 1/1000 sec when advancing to the first frame.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), May 06, 2002.

Hi Michel,
There seems to be some confusion whether the problem you encountered relates to the fact that the shutter will open for 30+ seconds when released in darkness in auto mode -or if the camera actually locked (which was the way I read your posting).
It would be nice if you would clarify to avoid misunderstandings.

Regards,

-- Niels H. S. Nielsen (nhsn@ruc.dk), May 07, 2002.

Thanks, this post solved the problem for me that I experienced recently. Also, the Hexar isn't perfect either. I've had it not load more than one time, and I used two different rolls of film trying to get it to work under pressure. I tossed it back in the bag and loaded the same roll into an M6 instantly.

-- Marc Williams (mwilliams111313MI@comcast.net), May 07, 2002.

Most, if not all, AE camera makers put an interlock on the shutter - you can't move the wind lever while the shutter is open, regardless of how long the exposure is - and regardless of whether you are shooting the first frame or in the middle of the roll.

It sounds to me like maybe Leica forgot this little item - a big engineering mistake if true.

On my M6ttl there is an interlock (I just tried it - CAREFULLY!). Even at a 1 second exposure the wind lever is blocked until the second curtain releases. But it does FEEL as though I could cause a jammed shutter if I wasn't expecting a long exposure and wound at normal pressure against the lock, instead of tentatively.

As mentioned - MOST manufacturers have a default 'fast' speed for the 'loading' frames (Nikon FA - 1/250th, e.g.)

The headache with this is that you get the default speed whenever the frame counter is at zero, so it's hard/impossible to check the shutter with the back open.

Contax was smart enough to allow the shutter to work normally when the back is open so that you can check things (e.g. flash sync - G1/G2, Aria, RX, at least). Something that I found very useful.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), May 07, 2002.

"It sounds to me like maybe Leica forgot this little item - a big engineering mistake if true."

Let's blame Leica for not making their cameras idiot proof. How about taking some responsibility for knowing how this camera operates. It is not a Nikon SLR.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), May 07, 2002.