Ladies, please cooperate with Godgreenspun.com : LUSENET : A.M.E. Today Discussion : One Thread
Let's say there is a man with a weight problem, and his wife constantly feeds him pies and cakes. What would you think of her? Suppose he's in debt, but she puts catalogs with things he likes in his lap. You'd think she hated him, or that she was in league with the devil. She's putting temptation in his way. Now if he gives in, it's still his fault. He'll bear the consequences of his weight and his debt, but she'll carry a measure of the blame.
I'm speaking to women tonight because I think I've found a way that even the most Godly women routinely sin. 1 Cor 5:7 states, "Do not deprive each other (sexually) except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."
In an earlier post I noted that I attended a city-wide seminar on sexual sin among Christian men. The material was excellent, but the question and answer session was very revealing. In a Q&A session the audience picks the subject, and about half the questions dealt with a subject the speaker hadn't dealt with all day: The role of spouses in sexual sin among men. Whether it was denial of sex for long periods, use of sex as a bargaining chip or a weapon, or providing only bad sex, the problem seemed widespread. As we learned in the seminar, sexual sin is rampant in the Christian community. The men need help from their wives. So why would an otherwise Godly woman feel justified in ignoring this passage of Scripture? Ladies, you should realize that even if your husband is God fearing and disciplined, he's very likely wrestling with sexual temptation of some kind on a regular basis. If you knew the extent and the power of it you'd probably be shocked.
Part of the problem lies in the different ways men and women are constructed. Men are visually aroused, and can be aroused by total strangers almost instantly. They also can feel the need for sex more often. Women, being more relationship oriented will generally take longer to arouse, be more discriminating, and not need sex as often.
Our problem arises from the counsel we receive on these differences. Men are urged in preaching and teaching to adapt their behavior and attitudes to their wives relationship needs, and that's excellent advice. But why aren't women advised to adapt their attitudes to meet their husband's needs?
The answer lies in the way the needs are perceived. A woman's relationship needs are viewed as valid. Many women view a man's visual arousal, his instantaneous ability to be stimulated by total strangers, and his strong drive as shallow, perverted, and invalid. When her husband asks her to wear that certain something or to try something new, she may feel cheap and resist. When he asks more often than she'd like she says she has a headache. Unwittingly she's communicating that his needs are wrong, and she's heaping a huge load of resentment and temptation upon him.
The tragedy is it doesn't need to be this way. What he's asking for probably isn't wrong by God's standards. What's wrong is the way you've been conditioned to react. A smart wife would nail her husband's loyalty down by catering to his needs as he is expected to cater to hers.
As a side note I'd like to point out another problem that can crop up. A friend of mine's wife wants children, and he doesn't. Their relationship isn't mature enough to where he can trust her to stay on the contraceptives, so he's cut off sex. They're both frustrated, and the marriage suffers greatly.
I'm speaking primarily to married women in this post, but also to single women because you may be married someday. I'm also speaking to divorced women and widows because you may have this unconfessed sin in your past.
If you're having marital problems, or if you've already lost your husband, chances are he's justifying his behavior in part by pointing to bad sexual behavior by you. I have a friend who absolutely seethes when he talks about his wife's unresponsiveness to his advances. She claims he needs to treat her better. So at the moment they're in a vicious circle: She denies him because he treats her badly, and he's mean to her because he's sexually frustrated. If either of these people were to ask me who should go first, my answer would be, "you".
-- Anonymous, May 04, 2002
Precious father we call on you and the power of your son Jesus Christ, to reign protection on this discussion board. We will not be moved in our reliance upon you father God. There are those who attempt to confuse and keep in discussions that are not Christ centered. They will not succeed. We have shown love, hospitality to those who come to post on this board. And in return we have received discord. We thank you God for our "Call to Worship" that reminds daily to the ways of the wicked. In the past we have embroiled in discussions, attacks, and anger on this board. But it has not broken us, it has strengthen us. We as A.M.E's have survived slavery, segregation, lynching and other acts of evil because we have relied on you. We will not be moved. Let others try to break us and they will feel the might and power of our God. RP this is my prayer and these are my thoughts, you came on this board over a year ago with racists statements, and we responded with love. Please do not mistake our kindness for weakness, but rather it is a sign that God sees all, knows all and will deal with all. I pray that things that are not meant to glorify God, will pass away quickly.
-- Anonymous, May 05, 2002
I haven't a clue what you're talking about dear Sister. I've been posting subjects which are designed to enhance our walks with the Lord. Sexual sin among Christian men is a large problem, and our wives have a role in the solution. That's all this post is about.
The seminar I attended was sponsored by a Christian minstry and was held in a church. Many churches from across the city were in attendance. This is simply an attempt to bring the very edifying things from that Christian event to others around the world through the wonderful medium of the web. The goal in this case is strengthened marriages.
-- Anonymous, May 05, 2002
You are right on target, RP! It is about time for someone to come to the front of the line and begin to dialogue about the real issues, facing many in the church. Our society promotes and makes big money on sexuality. The church is so far behind on matters of sexuality. We were created to be sexual beings, God made us that way.
if clergy find is difficult to discuss sexuality, then the community will always be faced with the results of sexual immorality, among clergy. There too many times, especially in the Black church, that sexual sins are committed, there is no recommended treatment/counseling for the person; they move them out of one church and place them in other church; without treatment.
This is all I need to say at this point. Sexual sins are a serious violation! It is happening everywhere; if not now, it will be!
Peace and blessings, lpw
-- Anonymous, May 07, 2002
RP, Please allow me to explain the comments you have (and probably will continue to) received.
My wife and I are the Directors of Counseling and Relationship Therapy at our church. The three biggest problems we see are communication, sex, and money.
Telling women to "give in to their husband's wishes" is, well, asinine. Although the marital bed is undefiled (when just the husband and wife are in it), most of the things that men cook up under the name of sex is a desire to act out some fantasy that they have read (in Penthouse or Playboy), or heard (by hanging out with the homies) or seen (by way of Adult movies).
A woman's biggest sex organ sits atop her shoulders. If her mind isn't in it, her body isn't either. Asking for lap dances, s&m, oral and anal sex (we're adults here and I can read between the lines of your post) may very well get you slapped, put out or cut off UNLESS you have healthy lines of communication. If your wife thinks that you consider her to be property (and not your equal), a tramp (and not a queen), or a garage to park your car in (and not the woman described in Proverbs 31), you are not doing your job as a husband.
I agree with you that we are built differently (microwave versus a crockpot - to date myself) with regard to sexual drive and desire, but here is a point that no one considers:
Like Adam and Eve, we were ignorant (about sex) until our eyes were "opened". How long should the act last? How many times should you do it? Is the missionary position the only approved position?
It's nobody's business but you and your wife. It's something that should have been discussed before you got married. Just like your friend with with wife that wants children, that aspect should have been discussed before.
RP, your comments sound like (I repeat sound like) someone that is neither a minister nor a Christian. I have not met you, so I cannot judge. I suspect that is why you got the response you did.
-- Anonymous, May 10, 2002
The problem with any statement of inequality of persons is that it tends to negate who we have become in Christ Jesus our Lord. For, in Galatians 3:28-29 we read:
"There is [now no distinction] neither JEW nor GREEK, there is neither SLAVE nor FREE, there is not MALE and FEMALE; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ [are in Him Who is Abraham's Seed], then you are Abraham's offspring and [spiritual] heirs according to promise "(AMP).
And again in Galatians 5:1 we read:
"IN [this] freedom Christ has made us free [and completely liberated us]; STAND FAST then, and do not be hampered and held ensnared and submit again to a yoke of slavery [which you have once put off] (AMP).
Thus, any statement to the contrary--especially one which is taken of context or uses some form of proof-texting--becomes an offense to those liberated (SET FREE) by the blood of Christ.
-- Anonymous, May 10, 2002
I'm so grateful for my wife Rev Harper. When I explained the temptations experienced by most men, myself included, she didn't react with disgust or disdain. Rather she resolved to rise to the occasion to help me out.
I asked her what she'd think if I told her I had a problem with alcohol. She knew I had a problem in this area before we were married, and I led her to think it was still with me. She said she'd help me in whatever way she could, and that with God's help we'd get through it. I went on to tell her that I didn't have a problem with alcohol, but that I did have problems with sexual temptation. She said sin was sin whether it was alcohol or improper sex, and her answer was the same.
The result was her behavior changed, and our marriage was greatly strengthened. She considers herself a partner in what's called "every man's battle", and has an iron committment beat one of the devil's most powerful tactics.
At the same time I know that she's an exceptional woman. As the men in accountability groups I've been a part of have shared the problems in their lives, I know many of them wish their wives were like mine. Many men get zero help from the ones who should be helping them the most.
Whether the practices you mentioned will be part of the deal or not, let me say this. The Bible places virtually no restrictions on bedroom practices between husbands and wives. The teacher in the seminar noted this, and only recommended a few. He said the only limits we can point to are those we can deduce from passages of Scripture relating to many areas of life. First, from the Golden Rule we can say that whatever happens should be mutually agreeable and non-degrading. Next, it should not involve pain or injury based on the principle of our bodies being a temple of the Holy Spirit. Third, it should not involve role playing because in that case we're imagining them to be someone they're not. So again I maintain, a smart wife will solidify her husband's loyalty by refining technique to the highest possible degree. Christian authors Tim and Beverly LaHaye have authored some excellent books on this subject if anyone needs help.
As far as frequency, the book that came with the seminar noted that after 48 to 72 hours many men will begin to experience temptation quite accutely. Now why would a loving wife want to endanger her marriage by making him fight a battle when it can be avoided? This is why Paul wrote what he did in 1 Cor, and again I'm puzzled how so many otherwise Godly women feel justified in ignoring this passage. A smart wife will take care of him, and it can probably be done quite quickly. Even if she's not in the mood herself, she can find motivation in that she could very well be saving her marriage.
-- Anonymous, May 12, 2002