How can the unintentional omission of one letter lead to so much disagreement?

Whenever I see fun/abuse cast at 'the mackems' I do not take it as being specific to me. Lighten up eh? get a grip etc. If I am to be treat with disdain all I ask is that you do it off your own bat ,not because one of your lot has taken a dislike to me.

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2002

Answers

Supes, I've not problem with you / your lot. I took it in the lighthearted way it was intended. Keep on posting - and be prepared to take what you dish out - but hopefully no more.

ps - you're still shite and lucky to stay up. :o))

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2002

Is that "you're singular or generic, Pilgrim?

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2002

Maybe I should use thee and thou!

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2002

Stop behaving like a huffy bairn superkev. Your posting was:

"I my experience though Millwall fans have not destoyed the facilities at Sunderlands' home ground.Unlike you lot. I have never seen Millwall start trouble at Sunderland,unlike you lot."

That's twice you referred to the guilty parties as "you lot". Now it's quite possible you "missed a letter off" twice because you missed the "n" off "In" at the beginning, but I doubt it. You then followed this up with this posting:

"Show me where i have accused YOU of anything. But did Newcastle fans wreck the concourse at the ssol last season? yes or no!"

You asked us to show you so I did. If that was meant as a rhetorical question then please just say so so that thickies like me know not take you literally.

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2002

Oh howay. This place isn't a f*ckin' English exam. When I saw Soops say "you lot" I for one (the only one?) didn't take it personally. Just like I would expect "them lot" to take it personally if I ever dragged myself to post on RTG. "You lot" is a generic saying. Cudda been "Youse lot", "Ye lot", "Yeez lot" or whatever. I certainly do not believe Soops was accusing any of us vicars for trashing the SoS. Take it for what I think it was meant. OK? Hopefully this will draw a line under the whole thing.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2002

Thank you Screacher.

It seems that sense has prevailed in your/you/yours/whatever part of town.

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2002

Who asked you for your opinion, eh? ;-)

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2002

Right ye/you/yow ootside now.

Ye/you/yow auld git. ;-)

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2002

Missing the entire point here I'm afraid. The thread in question was about the serious trouble caused by the large hooligan element attached to Millwall. SK immediately saw an opportunity to make further untrue assertions about United fans as he has often done before and I seem to be the only one consistently defending the position. The clear implication SK was making, was that United fans are worse than Millwall fans which is utter garbage and cannot be substantiated by an isolated incident at Monkwearmouth just as a similar charge cannot be laid at the door of Sunderland fans on the basis of isolated incidents some of them have been involved in.

There is a clear difference in style and substance to the way the vast majority of this forum conducts itself and the way SK conducts himself. This forum despite actually being the United forum, has never to my knowledge, attacked Sunderland fans as a group and any posts on the subject recognise what any intelligent human being recognises, ie that there are good and thuggish Mackems and there are good and thuggish Geordies. No-one here to my knowledge has ever claimed we as fans are better than them in any way. I'm on record as saying we're the same people.

Of course, there is the odd bit of light-hearted banter directed at Sunderland but NEVER a single malicious posting as far as I have seen.

Contrast that, if you will, with the approach of SK, a guest in our forum here, who far from observing the norms of the place began his BBS career with some appalling abuse and was treated in return, with firmness but always the utmost respect, in far greater measure than he has ever given back, or deserved. To give him some credit he turned down the obscenities to a great extent, but in return for that, it appears to me that too many people want to give him carte blanche to keep talking utter garbage about Newcastle fans and sometimes specifically the people here, without firmly stamping on his nonsense and putting him in his place.

In brief some of the issues I have taken up with SK are :-
1. A misunderstanding of the word "arrogance". SK is fond of calling us arrogant (although I'd like to see a more than a single post where he could show it). He accused us of "misplaced arrogance". This is ignorance of the language. Arrogance is always misplaced by definition . BBS 1 SK 0
2. Another accusation of arrogance was made against us by SK just the other day when someone pointed out we had almost twice as many points as the Mackems. Well this was, in fact, a simple observation of fact which could be confirmed by referring to the league table. It would have been "arrogant" to suggest we were twice as good as the Mackems if we led them by 2 or 3 points, but in actual fact we had almost twice as many points, so the charge of arrogance fails again. BBS 2 SK 0
3. At the start of the season Screacher outlined his plans to go to support the lads in Europe for the Troyes game and I amongst others planned a trip with him. For whatever reason - possibly a fit of jealous rage about Europe - I know not, SK took it upon himself to make some ungracious point about people talking about going to matches but never actually going, thus directly accusing us of lies and hypocrisy. Photographic and other evidence exists to show that Screacher and myself, plus Clarky made the trip. BBS 3 SK 0.
4. A little while ago I posted an amusing and entirely factual news story about the Metric Martyrs, at least one of whom is a Mackem Market trader. The thread was entitled something like "Mackems dragged kicking and screaming into Europe." Perfectly true (in the metaphorical sense - I don't think literal kicking and screaming took place). The guy had lost his case in court and was being ordered to use the metric system. For this I was accused of hypocrisy with an avowed attitude to Sunderland fans that I was not upholding in that post. Well, I'm sorry to always dig my heels in on such an issue, but I do value and protect my integrity (for reasons I know not) and I will never allow a charge of hypocrisy to be made against me and remain unchallenged. I simply pointed out that the story was light hearted banter but that in any event the story was not about Sunderland fans at all. BBS 4-0
I think there was also a history lesson about King Canute at one time as well but I really can't recall the detail there. It would have been nice to round it up to 5-0 there. In recent days I have taken particular exception to 2 completely irrelevant comments made about a very good BBS friend of mine who SK has cheekily brought into the discussion for no reason other than to show his extreme bad manners I guess. Don't do it again SK - I'm convinced.

I have taken not taken a dislike to SK per se - I do dislike unintelligent and unsubstantiated criticism of myself and United fans. I have NEVER (and I challenge anyone to prove otherwise) aimed any similar criticisms at Sunderland fans whom I regard as, along with us, the best in the country in terms of passion.

I will continue to defend the front room and the best china here at the Greenspun Vicarage, hopefully in the company of others, but on my own if need be. :-)

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2002

What a bunch of ugly cunts they are like SK Ive seen some pics of these lot on a site, i thought it was a windup at first

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2002

I answered a direct fucking question after trying to point out why people were going off at completely different angles. Now I get the smarmy bollocks about "If I am to be treat with disdain all I ask is that you do it off your own bat ,not because one of your lot has taken a dislike to me." I'm not treating anyone with disdain I'm explaining why offence was taken. "You lot" can be a generic statement but it can also be a very specific statement so if people take things the wrong way it would be advisable to phrase them differently. Someone (off his own bat) got bent out of shape by something superkev said and he comes back demanding for an exlanation: he got one. Alright?!?!?

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2002

I'd like to comment that there are a right bunch of kids on here sometimes, some who enjoy stirring whether accidentally (you/your) or malicisously (can't be arsed to find the example).

If Graham and Jonno were put in a room together they'd both be mighty amused at the other's opinions and joke about words and meanings, when they are in print/on-screen any miniscule slip in grammer/typing causes endless name calling.

I find it all very silly and petty but then I'm drunk. In the morning i'll be sober but it'll still be silly and petty.

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2002

Can we not talk about the royal family again instead?

-- Anonymous, May 05, 2002

Lighten up folks.You lot? Your lot? Who cares.

Soops and ML3 add a bit of spice to what could easily become Backslap.com ( thanks LR).

And well said Screacher !

-- Anonymous, May 05, 2002

Very good posting Jonno but quite simply I do NOT buy it. Well certainley not the bit about not taking a dislike to me. By deliberately and willingly taken my grammatical errors out of the intended context shows nothing but dislike for me.

And as for this scoring system you have dreamt up-to be honest I could sit here all day and argue but we would just go round and round and achieve nothing.

Let me explain AGAIN-when it comes to Sunderland/newcastle relations I consider my self to be at the top end of the scale. Arrogance? No. Geography dictates in my circumstances.

I do admit,I would be daft not to, that I was abusive etc when I first turned up at your tea party but I was just reverting to type as an enemy on your land.I have since been tolerated and even welcomed by some,not you(jonno) of course.

Getting back to the start,feel free to look at anything I write.I am sure you will find errrors.I work in a car factory where perfect english and grammar are NOT essential. But only you will be able to decide if they are deliberate mistakes or stealth digs,much in the way you do to me!

Right I think i'll go to the pub( 95% mag zone) where my English will not be subject to the closest scrutiny and where people can have a laugh and not try to gain higher moral ground by calling others morons etc.

-- Anonymous, May 05, 2002

Just don't you come back on here p!$$ed after going to the pub on a Sunday. More tea vicar?

-- Anonymous, May 05, 2002

I have since been tolerated and even welcomed by some,not you (jonno) of course.

I urge you to check back to your early posts when you will find I returned none of the abuse you were happy to dish out but asked you in a friendly and funny manner (as The Reverend Jonno) to tread the path of righteousness. Since then you have managed to accuse me of being a liar and a hypocrite (and never been able to substantiate the claim). I NEVER make welcome anyone who hurls unsubstantiated abuse at me. I don't know anyone who does quite frankly.

I work in a car factory where perfect english and grammar are NOT essential.

My work was always in IT where the languages used were between human and machine, so I have no advantage over you there. Your grammar has NEVER been criticised by me. But English - yes. That is the language we all use - no-one has any special advantages there. IF you chose to criticise or abuse myself or Newcastle fans then unless you have argued your point correctly (which obviously includes understanding the meanings of the words you chose to use, then I shall attempt to demolish the flimsy construction of your logic and your argument. I won't do this by pointing out typos, spelling mistakes or grammatical errors. (I dunno why people are rabbiting on about such stuff today). I will do it by demonstrating the falseness of your position. I think I have been successful every time I have attempted this so far, not due to any great intelligence on my part, but simply because some of the positions you chose to take were simply untenable. (eg attempting to imply that the Toon Army is worse than Millwall, is idiotic and the fact that you no longer wish to address this issue which you raised suggests to me you now accept defeat on the issue.

I could sit here all day and argue but we would just go round and round and achieve nothing.

No you never do argue. Once I have taken you on, on a point you have made, and collapsed your flimsy argument, you resort to telling me how many Toon friends you have or making uncalled for remarks about a very good friend of mine on the BBS or trying to wriggle out of things by saying they were spelling or grammatical errors!!! I welcome argument and debate as something to learn from and have taken very opposite positions from several people here on a number of issues. The issues are usually well argued on both sides and if at the end of them we still agree to differ, my respect and friendship for those who oppose my views is not diminished.

Let me explain AGAIN-when it comes to Sunderland/newcastle relations I consider my self to be at the top end of the scale.

I do admit,I would be daft not to, that I was abusive etc when I first turned up at your tea party but I was just reverting to type as an enemy on your land.

Reverting to type? - lol! Something you accused us of the other day I seem to remember. Look at those 2 sentences you wrote. Can you explain the paradox therein? I consider myself at the "top end of the scale" in terms of Newcastle Sunderland relations precisely because I am NOT abusive to Sunderland fans. I've never posted on RTG but if I do I will not resort to abuse and will seek out intelligent individuals who wish to debate an issue rather than trade insults

SK, as far as I'm concerned you are welcome here. Be aware that if you chose to criticise me or Newcastle fans in general, then unless your argument is sound I will attempt to demolish it. That is fair game in debate which is what this forum is about. And if you have got some interesting stuff to say about the state of the game, or if you just have something amusing to contribute, I will be happy to read it, as that is the stuff this forum thrives on and makes it such a friendly place to be, on the net.

-- Anonymous, May 05, 2002

Show me PRECISELY where I said the Toon army were worse than Millwall. I did make a cmment about glasshouses and stones but did NOT imply that you/your lot were worse. That is just how you decided to take it.

And I wish you would stop this bragging. In your eyes you have won something,in my eyes you look at twat(no offence like ,if thats possible when using the word twat!)

This whole sorry episode is because YOU willingly twisted my words.It semed that no-one else did until you started it and then loyalty forced others to fall behind you.Other contributors on here saw it for exactly what it was,namely a storm in a teacup.Only their sense of loyalty to you and your colours have stopped them from pointing this out to you imho.

Your disregard for me was very evident when someone posted up the a-z article that I composed for RTG.The way I saw your reply was that you didn't like it because I had written it.Maybe I am wrong but it is very easy for me to see it that way.

To finish with,until there is a dedicated and proper 'scoring system' then you will never beat me.In your mind you do ,but in my mind you don't.Why not come across to rtg and take up the same arguement there? I can almost guarentee that I will get support from regulars and that I will be able to claim the 'victory' as people will agree with me just so that they can disagree with a mag!

I just wish that others on here had the courage to say that you have over-reacted to my observations in the origional post. Macbeth,who is not my biggest fan ,saw this and so did Screacher.

Storm in a teacup? Fucking bigstyle. A' victory 'for you? In your mind ,yes. If it makes you feel better ,then you are welcome to it.

Now where did I leave that dictionary and thesaurus............

-- Anonymous, May 05, 2002

Bollocks. My last word.

-- Anonymous, May 05, 2002

shouldn't that be 'word'

-- Anonymous, May 05, 2002

I must take issue with Softie's use of English. It is unacceptable to have a one word sentence such as 'Bollocks'. I accept that Dickens, in his 'Tale of Two Cities' does open the book with the 'sentence', 'London' but ... oh shit, can't go on like this, few or less? me or I etc etc Dadadadddadadadadda. Madness ensues and writer is forced to begin next best selling novel thus: 'It was a dark and stormy night...'

-- Anonymous, May 06, 2002

Shouldn't it be bollox, or is that the southern version of the term? In which case, Softie should indeed have used the 'x' version, as opposed to the 'cks version'. Or is he now a fully integrated Geordie?

-- Anonymous, May 06, 2002

This is rediculous, what on earth is this all about? Sounds like we're all pissed??

-- Anonymous, May 06, 2002

I must take the blame for all the shaninigans going on here, I inadvertantly posted something that was football related (dunno what I was thinking) and all of a sudden it became a free for all. I tried to hijack the thread but it has since moved out west. What about those cheltenham fans? wot a bunch of fugs.

ps. did anyone see the interview with a couple of millwall fans after the defeat. If that lad on the motorbike wasn't one of the idiots throwing stuff at the police I'd be mighty surprised.

-- Anonymous, May 06, 2002

Johnno, IMHO I think you are fortunate SK hasn't chosen to develop the accusation. If it was me, I might have pointed out that since most of the folk on this board were at the game but took no steps to interceed and, since vast numbers of toon fans have been involved in mass organised vandalism in the past¹, and since football supporters will always be classed as a group whether we like it or not₂, the accusation "you lot" is justified.

¹eg FA Cup 1998, Play off semi-final May 1990 <sub>2When the SAFC fans bombarded the Police with bottles at the recent derby, I didn't wash my hands of responsibility and class them as a disparate group. I felt ashamed to be a Sunderland fan on that occasion.]

-- Anonymous, May 08, 2002</sub>

bugger, just turn off that formatting...

-- Anonymous, May 08, 2002

"organised" is a daft word to use, as it implies planning, control and all that sort of nonsense and we all know that anything that has gone off in a crowd situation (where ver it may be) has had a good amount of alcohol as its prime "organiser"

-- Anonymous, May 08, 2002

Fair point, I should have used the word "large-scale".

ML³

-- Anonymous, May 08, 2002

Objection! That's 2 words.

-- Anonymous, May 08, 2002