I am not an official member of these threads as if there are any, but I must say, while the camera may be the basis of what you do, you probably wanted to do it before you found the the brand of camera. After my purchase, I may sing the praises of Leica until I am blue in the face. But if I end up being solely interested in the content of most of the posts here, I might as well shoot myself in the head. This forum doesn't seem to emphasize Leica photography and that is the title, as it does Leica engineering and stats and stats and stats. Why not just rename the forum Leica, Leica, Leica and take the photography out huh?

-- Hyatt Lee (shahmat@ms63.hinet.net), April 29, 2002

Answers

Leica users are quirky people, and this forum indulges them. It doesn't seem to do anyone any harm (for the most part).

A better title might be the Leica Enthusiasts' Forum--so it covers all the bases.

-- Preston Merchant (merchant@speakeasy.org), April 29, 2002.

My apologies go out to Jeff Spirer, Alfie Wang,John Collier, Mike Dixon and all the others on this forum who have shown an obvious interest in the photography aspect of the whole deal, anyhow: enough siad you know who you are and whether to be offended.

Cheers

-- Hyatt Lee (shahmat@ms63.hinet.net), April 29, 2002.

Hyatt, The forum is what you make it. If you would like to start a thread on technique, esthetics, vision, famous photojournalist stories, etc. etc., by all means do so. It will be welcome. It is true that folks 'round here get into gadget talk rather easily.

In any case, who has time to be interested in the content of all the posts here? Who'd ever have time to shoot photographs?

-- Tse-Sung (tsesung@yahoo.com), April 29, 2002.

Mr.Lee-

Has your world become so narrow as to exclude the world beyond this forum? If so, then by all means, shoot yourself. If there is indeed a world beyond the tech talk of Leicas, then go take some pix and let us know what you come up with.

By the way, what is "Leica Photography"?

-- jeff (debontekou@yahoo.com), April 29, 2002.

This is a relatively free forum, there are few rules (no ad hominem attacks and so on). You can read what you want, and you can choose not to read what doesn't interest you. This is freedom in action. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and asking you to read everything. That said, you have every right to ask your question. However, be prepared for the answers. Some of them can be entertaining. :)

-- Vikram (VSingh493@aol.com), April 29, 2002.

Mr. Lee, If you are going to "shoot yourself in the head", please "shoot" yourself with a Leica. Choose either M6, M7, or R8 as you like. Then show us the picture. Be sure to tell us what lens, f-stop, aperture, distance, etc. you used so we can critique your technique. Thus you will be practicing what you preach. Those of us who also enjoy using firearms safely do not need more irresponsible firearm usage or references. Thanks. :>)) LB

-- (lberrytx@aol.com), April 29, 2002.

Just a figure of speech lberrytx. :>/

-- jeff (debontekou@yahoo.com), April 29, 2002.

What's your problem Hyatt? I don't need a forum to tell me what to shoot (gee guys, what should I shoot this weekend). I don't even need a forum to tell me if what I shoot is good or bad, whether or not I sell the image will tell me that. What I do need from time to time is technical information concerning the camera or the process I use. For this I find the knowledge on this form valuable.

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), April 29, 2002.

<< My apologies go out to Jeff Spirer, Alfie Wang,John Collier, Mike Dixon and all the others [snip] -- Hyatt Lee >>

Alfie, congratulations! You're now officially the Mount Rushmore of Leica Photography!

-- Vikram (VSingh493@aol.com), April 29, 2002.

Bob, Jeff, and LB,

You guys are spot on, straight up, on the money and whatnot... To Jeff and LB, hyperbole as a rhetorical device often works wonders and elicits strong responses. To Jeff, I'm not going to go into my life or accept the bait but good try nonetheless. To LB, you are absolutely right, put my money where my mouth is; but because all my photos are non-leica at this point, I think they wouldn't qualify. To Bob, I have no truck with wanting good info as many people on this forum have helped me immensely though I have not proved my meddle. In the end, I just wanted to provoke a discussion about photography and the equipment as a medium. Sure, Leica is a fine product, but show me how it has changed, proved, altered and or frustrated your technique.

Thanks for all the answers, that includes Vikram, Preston, Phil and Tse-Sung and all those mentioned above.

Cheers,

-- Hyatt Lee (shahmat@ms63.hinet.net), April 29, 2002.

Hyatt, if you don't like it, don't read it...

having said that, I must admit that a lot of the material posted on this forum is rhetorical and of very limited utility (to me at least).

So your not alone, just vocal.

-- John (ouroboros_2001@yahoo.com), April 29, 2002.

But most of it IS entertaining . . .

-- Preston Merchant (merchant@speakeasy.org), April 29, 2002.

Hyatt - I think you should have just asked: "Sure, Leica is a fine product, but show me how it has changed, proved, altered and or frustrated your technique" in the first place. I think your origianl post was worded in a way that was bound to get peoples defenses up, but what you really seem to be askings is legitimate. For myself owning Leica has not substantially changed my photographs. Originally I had a complete Nikon system that worked great for most of what I do, but was ill suited for much of the low light work I love. F2 at 1/15 is hit or miss with an F2. Switched to Olympus OM and found that my low light capability was vastly improved, but still not quite there. I also fell into the trap of going out for a simple shoot and, wanting to be sure I didn't miss any opportunities, lugging around 2 bodies and 9 lenses. To cure this I bought one of the original A/F Hexars. Found after a couple of years that it was doing the majority of my shooting so decided to get rid of it all and buy Leica rangefinder (IIIg with 35 Summicron Asph and 50mm Canon F1.8). A couple of years later I bought an R3 with a couple of lenses to fill in what rangefinders don't easily do (mainly copywork, but found that if I have lots of light I use it more than the rangefinder).

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), April 29, 2002.

Hyatt, this is the Leica Forum where we like to talk about Leica gear and stuff. If you're looking for the drumbeat "the image is everything" crowd, you should head over to www.photo.net where there are lots of purists just like you.

Good luck.

-- Dan Brown (brpatent@swbell.net), April 29, 2002.

Bob,

Thanks. You are right, I probably exacerbated the problems from the get go. I'm afraid that is one of the perils of my job; we manufacture disputations. But I am very pleased you got the gist and hope there are more such answers to come. Thanks again for letting me know how Leica affected your work. Cheers,

-- Hyatt Lee (shahmat@ms63.hinet.net), April 29, 2002.

Hyatt-

First off, don't sell yourself short if you don't have a Leica. You might get amazing results with a pinhole or a Fuji disposable...In regards to your new question: the M6 has made me learn to think more about exposure conditions and I have learned to estimate exposure without a meter. It has taught me to estimate distance without using the rangefinder, I can focus be feel before I bring the camera to my eye. In other words, after about 3 years of regular use, the camera is becoming more transparent. So one might argue that the Leica marketing isn't just bs afterall. If you are willing to apply yourself, you will be rewarded as in much of life.

-- jeff (debontekou@yahoo.com), April 29, 2002.

Technical issues are easier to articulate and discuss, and so they dominate forums like this one. The aesthetics are more difficult to articulate, and almost impossible to agree upon, so most folks shy away from written communication on that subject.

-- Douglas Kinnear (douglas.kinnear@colostate.edu), April 29, 2002.

"The aesthetics are more difficult to articulate, and almost impossible to agree upon. . ."

Not true. Certainly everyone here would agree that Alfie Wang is one of the most articulate and talented photographers to present work to this forum.

Who else shows a consistent vision? Who else manages so skillfully to both emulate and then surpass his archetypes: James Nachtwey, Huger Foote, Ralph Gibson?

Mike Dixon may be good, but he does play the same tune all the time, doesn't he?

For depth, variety and real "seeing, " I'll look at Alfie's photography anytime.

And I'll buy the book when it comes out. Alfie rocks!

-- George L. T. (davecasman@yahoo.com), April 29, 2002.

Hyatt, have you considered which body and which lens you're interested in? I'd like to suggest the Elmar-M 50mm 1:2.8 (second version,) as your first lens. Edwin Puts (from what I've heard) says that the Elmar-M can resolve 100 lpm, which I think probably puts it ahead of the Summilux and Noctilux. On the other hand, the lens is fairly slow. To me, it's not really a handicap, how about you? As for a body, I was lucky to get a used Leitz (Mint New). Personally, I feel this is the best contemporary body made, but others have their own opinion. Hey, I got an idea! How about the best of both worlds! Leitz Leica M6, Elmar-M 50mm 1:2.8, B+W KR1.5 MRC, Sensia II 200, Polaroid SprintScan 4000:

-- Glenn Travis (leicaddict@hotmail.com), May 01, 2002.

If I didn't like this forum, I'd go somewhere else.

Hyatt, you say "all my photos are non-leica"; that makes your original comments a bit rich, don't you think?

Nigel

-- Nigel Bowley (nigel.bowley@btinternet.com), May 02, 2002.

heres my answer...




-- grant (lotusphotography@yahoo.com), May 02, 2002.

I really don't understand this sort of comment. If you don't want to talk about Leica, go to another forum. If you want to talk about something other than equipment, then post a comment on technique or whatever interests you. If a given post doesn't interest you, don't bother to read it. If nothing in the forum interests you, then why post a silly comment--just don't waste your time or those of others who may naively open your blather!

-- Jack Matlock (jfmatlo@attglobal.net), May 02, 2002.

To Nigel, yes, I suppose you have a point there. I came to the Leica forum because I am anticipating my first Leica purchase. I wanted to see what the hardcore fans had to offer and find out what information I could glean to figure out if buying such a camera would be a worthy investment. I've been quite pleased with all the help I have received. Ummm... To Jack, I think if you had completely read through the thread you would have realized that I tempered the tone of my original post substantiially. I am not about to go flail myself or go somewhere else as you suggested because well... I don't want to. Sorry if you were offended.

And as for the most exciting answer posted, Grant, you don't have to say anymore.

-- Hyatt Lee (shahmat@ms63.hinet.net), May 03, 2002.

<< ... I am anticipating my first Leica purchase. ... -- Hyatt Lee >>

Hyatt,

I hope you didn't take all the comments personally. I'm sure most of the writers were being tongue-in-cheek!

What are you thinking of buying? M or R? What kind of lenses? I'm new to Leica [own M equipment, plus lots of Nikon], so I can give you the "beginner's" perspective.

Best wishes,

-- Vikram (VSingh493@aol.com), May 03, 2002.