spaying barn cats/ my 2 cents worth

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread

Okay, after reading numerous threads regarding spaying of cats. I look at it this way. A cat that is a mouser has to learn that skill.A good barn cat will teach their young. I live in a rural area but on a main road. Cars will fly at 60 + milers per hour. Unfortunatley there is always some casualties with the cats. If I were to spay all the barn cats it would end up costing a fortune to do when the cats meet their demise and I had to replace. Let alone if I were to go to the humne society and adopt, that also costs a pretty penny. My Cats always have food and water available but that is it. They dont come in the house. Most are pretty wild and would have to be trapped in order to even catch. They are here to do a job, not pets. Is it only me or do others think the same?

-- homesteader (notreal@fake.net), April 28, 2002

Answers

We have both semi wild barn cats and house cats. I wouldn't spay a barn cat anymore than the squirrels. We save a few kittens and adopt them out. My vet took two to replace his spayed barn cats!!!!!!! I'm not saying it's "bad" to spay a barn cat, just if the population keeps it's self under control why mess with nature?

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), April 28, 2002.

My cats are not fixed either. I love it when my girl has kittens. I keep them. People beg me for them, and usually I end up giving them a few. My cats are very tame, love to be held, but do their job outside in the barns and under the house getting mice. They are very healthy, get goats milk and food, and very good care.

My momma cat Pebbles brings her babies up on the porch when it's time for me to feed them. She also brings up mice. I have to put up with the mess sometimes, but I figure she's teaching them. I also call them all when I catch a mouse in a trap in the house and they all want it. I start them young like that. I would never want to be without outside cats. We have no cars up here, but I've lost some over the years, usually the best hunters. I had one excellent momma bring up a full size wild rabbit, put it in a plastic box in the barn for her kittens. The rabbit was larger than she was. Don't know how she got it.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), April 28, 2002.


I have one house cat that is neutered. My barn cats arent and I would not even consider it. The population has a way of working things out and I have no problems with mice or rats.

-- tracy (murfette@stargate.net), April 28, 2002.

Our cats are a very important part of the farm. We do not spay them. Only keep about 2 female kittens a year. Give some away free. Some kittens do not make it, but that is the life cycle, only the strong survive. I do name them & care for them as other livestock, will cull when needed. We have 7 females of varying ages, oldest the best hunters & mothers. But all ours are tame to pet, but not always to pick up, they do not come to the house. Milk & some food is provided. I do give antibiotics to older valuable cats if they get sick. Seems to be a matriarch system, as one is the dominant female. They have a job, thats for sure!

-- Suzanne (weir@frontiernet.net), April 28, 2002.

Out here the humane society will not adopt cats out to farms. They kill 95% of the cats they aquire, but if you live beyond city limits you cannot get one because they are afraid they will get hurt or killed. Go figure.

-- Terri (hooperterri@prodigy.net), April 28, 2002.


cam anyone say "lake kitty"?

-- dave (dso@davenpu.edu), April 28, 2002.

A guy used to rent my shop and brought in 2 non-spayed cats. We ended up with 27 cats, mostly feral, roaming the yard. Had to have them trapped and taken away. I have 1 neutered male, and have no problems with mice (I'm in the country too) I say fix em.

-- Nancy (ninjabut@aol.com), April 28, 2002.

We have three barn cats, all spayed/neutered. All were aquired as kittens; two on purpose, one when someone dumped it. They are excellent mousers, didn't need any teaching. If we need more cats we will get some of the free ones always advertised in the various papers and have them spayed/neutered also.

-- Dianne Wood (woodgoat@pacifier.com), April 28, 2002.

I suppose you feel the same way about vaccinations & vet care? I have both indoor & outdoor animals plus do foster work for the humane society & local rescue groups- we end up with the unwanted,uncared for,abused & neglected animals country & city folks don't think have needs; to a safe life, care,food,water,shelter & vet care. Folks with your mindset are the type that shouldn't have any animals. Sadly, there are too few responsible animal owners in comparison to the ' let them breed & roam mentality' Responsible animal owners rather city or country spay/neuter their animals, & don't say it cost too much- 95% of the counties now have low/no cost programs if you cared enough to find out about them and the other 5% have vets that will work with folks on reduced cost spaying/neutering. Do you know one female cat left to have litter after litter is capable of producing in her & her offsprings lifetimes over 7000 kittens. Now multiply that by every one just on this board who still has the backward idea that 'barn' cats are not really pets, what do you call them Livestock?? It sickens me to see the low level of compassion that some members of this board have- if you don't have the money to spay or intelligence to see that feral non-vaccinated cats cause problems for your neighbors & the community I guess you would feel the same level of compassion & intelligence if your child were attacked by someone elses 'barn' cat. It sure would be hard to complain if your neighbors are just letting nature takes its course just like you're doing -Right? If the term homesteader means uninformed,cruel,uncaring redneck then you can keep the term. Your way of thinking/living is not one any true God fearing, love the country life and respect the life of all of it's inhabinants would want describing their way of life- Check out Proverbs 18:10. Ask yourself would you want to be forced to keep having kids and have others say "Oh well they'll get killed on the road so it's best to keep having them to make up for the lost ones" with no choice or even medical care? I'm not ascribing human rights to animals just using it as an example of the idiocy of your statements. One day you will hopefully find out what type of cruelty you are forcing on your animals, just as cruel as withholding food,water or shelter. The old saying "What goes around comes around" is my only hope for you to learn why we must all provide humane care for the creatures we are responsible for, let's just hope it's not something you must learn the heartbreaking way; a way involving a life you value rather animal or human.

-- Kathy Aldridge (beckoningwinds@yahoo.com), April 28, 2002.

I have two barn cats that we finally had spayed after finding out that the kittens we gave away did not end up in good homes. Some were dumped later. One went to a neighbor. They moved away and left the cats. They had two. One came home months later. He is wild. Wont let any one near him. He lives in the barn also. He is a black shadow we see slinking in or out often. The other cat disapeared. Probably bobcat or coyote food. We also live on a busy country road but we have had these two girls 6 years. They must really have nine lives.

-- corky wolf (corkywolf@hotmail.com), April 28, 2002.


Your cats would fit in the category below. Think about these figures!!

So, you ask, what exactly is a feral cat??? Read on, and you'll learn more about a problem that's causing a lot of suffering --- and costing you money!!! Feral cats are the 'wild' offspring of domestic cats and are primarily the result of pet owners' abandonment or failure to spay and neuter their animals, allowing them to breed uncontrolled. Feral cat 'colonies' can be found behind shopping areas or businesses, in alleys, parks, abandoned buildings, and rural areas. They are elusive and do not trust humans.

Many people assume their animals will survive when they move away and leave them behind. Contrary to popular belief, domestic animals do not automatically return to their "natural" instincts and cannot fend for themselves! Already, U.S. animal shelters are forced to kill an estimated 15 million homeless cats and dogs annually. The alternative to humane euthanasia for almost every stray is a violent end or slow, painful death. Many "throwaways" die mercilessly outdoors from starvation, disease, abuse --- or as food to a predator.

A pair of breeding cats, which can have two or more litters per year, can exponentially produce 420,000 offspring over a seven-year period, And the overpopulation problem carries a hefty price tag. Statewide, more than $50 million (largely from taxes) is spent by animal control agencies and shelters for cat-related expenses

-- J. Morgan (delila48@hotmail.com), April 28, 2002.


We rent a house on working farm, but IF this was our farm the barn cats would spayed/neutered. Unfortunately, this isn't our farm :-(.

I completely understand the job of a barn cat, but overbreeding and disease doesn't have to be part of it. The barn cats here have interbred so much that some of the kittens are blind and some have malformed or crooked legs. They have lice, fleas and worms. There are too many males and they fight often. The loser walks around with open wounds that get infected. Some of them can barely walk into the barn to get fed.

If the cats are here to do a "job" then their employer owes them something beyond food and water. A dull rusty knife can't cut and a kitten that is crippled or sick can't learn to be a good hunter. Basic healthcare doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg. There are programs to neuter rural cats and organizations that rescue & find new (homes) farms for feral barn cats.

I hate spring because I don't want to see the next batch of kittens and see what is wrong with them. I would get the cats fixed, but they, the farm buildings and the farm land are personal property and I don't have the right to mess with someone elses property.

Hopefully your next batch of kittens won't have physical deformities.

-- Dash (forthechix@yahoo.com), April 29, 2002.


Dash,

I think you should take the cats and have them fixed. No one will ever know. I got tired of my neighbor's tom cats coming over here and attacking my cats (which are all fixed). So I loaded them up and had them neutered @ $10 each. It was well worth it.

-- Jodie in TX (stanchnmotion@yahoo.com), April 29, 2002.


Kathy I think you've stepped well out of bounds with your comments. To call people idiots and generalize their situations into your worst case scenario is not fair or correct. I'm not familiar with the USA's availability for spay neuter clinics, I'm in Canada and can tell you that free or low cost spay neuter clinics are very rare indeed. Yes I've looked, and continue to check regularly. For my new house cats. The barn cats are "semi tame wild animals" they don't bolt for cover,.... most of the time. They are not drop off's J Morgan is correct drop off's don't survive long. They may resemble my pet cats but make no mistake they are wild. I don't "own" them any more than I own any other wild animal, including the racoon in my old silo. To try to catch them would put my health at risk. Now that's something I truly can not afford. Yes I do save abandoned kittens, I wear gloves and they are isolated from the other animals. I guess I could shoot the feral cats, but I'm really not the best marksman in the world, and would hate to think of one crawling off to die slowly. Besides there are not too many, too few by most accounts. I put food out for them but I feed wild birds, squirrels and chipmunks too. No joke it was harder to stop them stealing bird seed and I suppose they needed it as much as the birds. Fed cats catch more rats I'm told. Besides I don't dislike the wild cats. Our township is not over run with feral cats at all either. A very healthy coyote population must be keeping populations in check, (sorry to say the coyotes kill most small animals big ones too for that matter)they steal domestic cats and small dogs, and kill livestock too. They would certainly eat a spayed cat as fast as an entire one. All my animals are vaccinated, and I have a very good vet client relationship with 3 different vets for the different animals they specialize in, and use 2 other clinics off and on as well. I consider most of them to be friends and am very lucky to have so much choice. Most people are lucky to have 1 vet. I have tried in the past to get rabies vaccine for the barn cats (as a start), our ministry of natural resources has a fox baiting program but they would not provide bait for the barn cats. My vets have had no workable solution for me, the local humane society thought I was nuts. I am open to practical solutions for vaccinating them if you have any ideas. Until they are safe/r to handle though I'll leave the wild ones to themselves. As far as getting them spayed, until there is a problem with the local population I'll hold off going to extremes or hiring hunters too. I'd rather risk the cat problems than rats. And yes I do know the health problems the cats pose for my sheep. Country living includes wild animals, but don't confuse them with livestock or pets.

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), April 29, 2002.

The core of the problem of so-called feral cats doesn't come from the farms but rather all the people who look at them as pets. The whole overpopulation problem with dogs and cats started with all the people who want a cute furry pet and the professional breeders that supply them. It's only been recently that they woke up to the fact that maybe they went a little too far and now need to sterilize their pets. That doesn't change the fact that the problem started with them. If you want to attack this problem, start with the people in the business of breeding and selling pets and the concept of petowning. That's the core of the problem, not farmers using cats for rodent control. Seriously how can you deny that?

I have never seen a truly rural area have a problem with cats. A few acres hobby farm outside of town is not what I consider rural. I have never seen or heard of any human getting a disease from a feral cat or non vaccinated barn cats in rural areas. I have never seen a barn cat population in a rural area spiral out of control to dozens of cats and certainly not a ridiculous figure like 7000 cats, or worse yet a crazy impossible figure nearly half a million. Nature has a way of taking care of things.

The truly backward idea is the whole concept of owning pets that has exploded over the past 50 years. Think about it realistically. Was there ever a problem with so-called feral dogs and cats years ago before so many people started the obsession with owning pets and turned it into big business? I know people here in these businesses and especially in step with the registrars like AKC etc will scream their heads off at what I'm saying but all I can say is wake up and take a look at what you're contributing to. What goes on in the professional breeding world and the registrars is truly an obsession and it's sick and you are contributing more to those animals in the shelters being put to death than any farmer ever could come close to.

Quit blaming farmers using cats for rodent control for these problems and place the blame where it belongs.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), April 29, 2002.



"Homesteader' is the one who said that it costs too much to keep replacing the cats since they keep getting killed on the roadway. I don't think anyone would leave their goats or cattle run free to be killed by passing cars so if they're not pets then they must be thought of as livestock or working animals which would come under the same precautions & safety issues as the calves & goats.Just because they are free don't they deserve a certain degree of safety & care? Why is is that it's out of line to speak the truth- in the USA there are low/no cost programs for spaying as well as Feral Cat Spay/Neuter programs for $5.00 a cat which includes a rabies vaccination. To use the excuse that if she gets them spayed then they get killed she'll have to just buy more or have wasted the money. That is idiotic- I doubt if she feels that way about her money-making livestock or children, there are no guarantees in life so everything we spend money on could be a waste. It is irresponsible to let any animal breed continuously just because it can/will. Leaving population control to the coyotes/bobcats/etc is not exactly a humane way control a controllable problem, yes it happens even with our tame pets but to expect that to keep all the strays controlled is not a very compassionate example to set for the next generation. My reason for being ashamed of the term homesteader is have you really looked back on this board for a few months? The amount of gleeful cruelty aimed at 'dumb' animals( dmestic & wild) has increased tremondously. It seems that no one cares for the suffering they are inflicting, not just on their livestock but also the domestic pets they own. As I said & I stick by it that mindset is not the mindset of a caring,informed country person who has any sense of the significance that cruelty has on the next generation- many blame the modern music,movies & TV for the decline of our youth & the violence they are exhibiting, don't you think that seeing their families treat animals with no regard or compassion has the same effect or possibly more effect since these are the people they trust to teach them life lessons? Most serial killers started out by torturing or abusing animals; a total lack of respect for animal life which is just a short jump until they lose respect for human life. Maybe in Canada there aren't programs for pets, but that excuse isn't valid in the US. As for the feral cats not being pets, at one time they were probably generations back then someone decided that they could fend for themselves. I have worked with feral cats and many can become tamed down when given a safe environment, no not a couch & indoor life, just a life with food, shelter,not having to be harassed by the predators(animal & human) & no more kittens. Cats don't have to be feral/barn type to hunt for mice & rats and that reasoning also is incorrect. I have a 13 yr old indoor spayed female cat who gets delight in going after the occasional mouse that makes it into the house. We got her as a small kitten & she never 'learned' from her mother how to hunt mice! Did anyone who has 'barn' cats think about the fact that they don't stay just on your place but go off to the neighbors, folks who may enjoy having the songbirds visit their feeders & the chipmunks come to the picnic table? Do you really feel that your neighbors should have to tolerate your cats killing the creatures they find enjoyable? Would you be as tolerant if their pigs came over & killed your chickens or their goat ate your prize winning roses? Probably not, so why do you feel that it is alright for your animals to tresspass on their place? After reading the posts from months back through today, I am starting to see why alot of non-homesteader people think that all homesteaders are 'backwoods & not too bright', terms I had found offensive when I first heard them but I'm starting to at least see where they get that impression. Stereotypes usually have some faint foundation in truth & posts & replies like these have just reinforced that stereotype. I am happy to see a few folks do realize the importance of population control for domestic animals- to those I say thank you.

-- Kathy Aldridge (beckoningwinds@yahoo.com), April 29, 2002.

Kathy, you said "Ask yourself would you want to be forced to keep having kids" Barn cats are not being forced, it happens naturally.

What about dog and cat breeders? Aren't they the ones forcing? You can spay and neuter all you want and the problem will still exist. Outlaw the breeding and selling of pets and your problem will clear up in a decade or two. Get rid of the whole petowning mentality that's spread like a disease. The businesses that cater to it, the magazines, clubs, registrars and organizations. You won't have shelters full of animals waiting to die then. Do you disagree with that?

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), April 29, 2002.


and this, "Leaving population control to the coyotes/bobcats/etc is not exactly a humane way"

That's absolutely correct. It's the animal worlds way. It worked fine for many centuries before humans started interfering.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), April 29, 2002.


Kathy, how can you even compare a barn cat to a child? Us homesteaders to serial killers because we have barn cats? That is insane. I've been here a long time, and the folks here take care of their animals and truly care about them.

Our local "cat santuary" has over 200 cats and kittens, it's stinky and dirty and very overcrowded, and they are constantly begging for money. But they won't adopt me a kitten to live outside. My cats are clean, shiny, roll and play in the sunshine all day, get milk, food, vet care, shots, whatever. They all come when I call them. When I'm working in the garden, they are all there with me. Yes, I do loose a cat once in a while, and it hurts, but I also loose a baby goat or calf once in a while also. It's called a farm.

And it's not fair to point the finger at us. Do your math, just how many fixed/declawed house cats in town "dash out the door" and never come back? They have no hope of surviving and have no idea how to get home because they've never been outside.

So, tell me Kathy, if we had to bring all our barn cats inside, and never let them out, what is your idea of a "humane" way to kill all the rats that WILL take over our barns. Do the rats have a right to a "safe life" also? What about our dairy goats that will get deathly sick from rat infested grain? What do YOU do about the rats? What about the children's right to play in the barn without fear of a rat bite?

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), April 29, 2002.


Well, I was truly hoping that this thread would be an interesting variety of opinions without rudeness. I guess that's too much to ask! I,too, have an opinion about this subject, but I refuse to state it. I have respect for the people who post here and I feel that they have been insulted. An opinion can be voiced with respect, but, again, that seems to be too much to ask.

-- Ardie/WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), April 29, 2002.

With the ranch nowhere near a highway nor a neighbor, the cats do very well. They have their little house with a kitty door to escape the coyotes and whatever if need be. The same feed is given to them as the house cats, and the feeder is always kept filled. The automatic waterer does it's job. BTW, the ranch is a great place to dump cats, dogs, whatever...folks do it all the time. Seems if you have a lot of acreage, you can take every animal that comes along!

Neuter/spay those cats? You'd have to be nuts. Adopt from the INhumane Society? You'd have to be nuts to pay those fees. I can get a pure bred dog for what the Society charges for a mutt. They complain about having to kill so many every year. If they'd adopt them out at a reasonable fee, they wouldn't have to kill them. But the Society doesn't care about the animals. There's plenty of free dogs/cats in the newspaper.

-- MaryJo (maryjo340856@cs.net), April 29, 2002.


I, for one, can relate to Kathy's frustration. The overpopulation problem is so huge, and the suffering of the animals is so awful, and our best efforts are so futile, that to hear you folks talk casually about letting your pets breed is just maddening.

I could go in to a diatribe here, but the truth is, if I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand.

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), April 29, 2002.


Spaying/neutering cats around here costs $70+. There are several vets in the area, but no one charges under that amount! I refuse to spend that kind of money on the "neighborhood" cat. Between the road, dogs, wild animals etc... a cats life span around here is about 3-4 years.

-- Marge (mboyc73@yahoo.com), April 29, 2002.

I have 2 toms, one neutered, one not. The neutered one NEVER leaves the porch, actually afraid to. The other stays mostly in the house. Our female was hit by a car last month, she was almost 9 years old and was spayed. I never regreted spaying her, because I didn't need or want any kittens. But if I had a larger farm/barn I would probably have males. I just don't want too many kittens. Three neighboring farms have plenty to go around, figure if they come here and stay, fine. When I was growing up we had up to 21 cats at one time. All very healthy and very good mousers. One problem around here tho is inbreeding. In a previous post I mentioned my mother-in-laws cat with the premmie kittens. I think that this could be the problem. Also I think it must make their immune system weak, some seem very sickly. But my cats are all plump and healthy, so far. But I'm worried that the sickly ones (not mine) might give something to mine.

-- Tricia (rosie71@alltel.net), April 29, 2002.

I have 2 toms, one neutered, one not. The neutered one NEVER leaves the porch, actually afraid to. The other stays mostly in the house. Our female was hit by a car last month, she was almost 9 years old and was spayed. I never regreted spaying her, because I didn't need or want any kittens. But if I had a larger farm/barn I would probably have males. I just don't want too many kittens. Three neighboring farms have plenty to go around, figure if they come here and stay, fine. When I was growing up we had up to 21 cats at one time. All very healthy and very good mousers. One problem around here tho is inbreeding. In a previous post I mentioned my mother-in-laws cat with the premmie kittens. I think that this could be the problem. Also I think it must make their immune system weak, some seem very sickly. But my cats are all plump and healthy, so far. But I'm worried that the sickly ones (not mine) might give something to mine. Oh, it costs $98 here to have a tom neutered, and no one in the county can tell me if they can help with payment.

-- Tricia (rosie71@alltel.net), April 29, 2002.

I would gladly round up all my barn cats and take them to be spayed/neutered if it were only $10 each. But it's not, it's at least $50 each, I've called all the vets- nobody does it that cheap. I simply can't afford to spend $400 on the barn cats. No, I don't qualify for the low income spay neuter clinics either. While most of my barn cats are very friendly and enjoy being held, they are not pets. They're not livestock or working animals, either. They're just here(and when I move I'll gather them all up and take 'em with me). They eat dog food, I worm them occasionally and any that happen to be around when the vet is here get rabies shots. I've got about 8 right now, and even though we have kittens every year, the population seems to hold steady one way or another without any intervention and I've never had one hit by a car.

The barn dogs are another story- I gladly spent $70 to have them spayed.

-- shakeytails in KY (shakeytails@yahoo.com), April 29, 2002.


Spay and neuter now has a low cost pogram .If you tell them it's a barn cat the will do it with a rabies for 10.00 .It does seem after I get them fixed they live fo about 1 year. But I will adopt free kittens from the paper and get them fixed to.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), April 29, 2002.

Kathy, if you are on the forum, can you tell me why the humane society won't adopt out to people who do not live in town? Our cat is a pet like any other cat, and all of my neighbors cats appear healthy and well cared for. Yes, they are ALLOWED outside when they want to go, and yes they catch mice when they get the chance to, but from what I see of my town friends' cats that is the norm, with the totally house cat being the exception. So, why do country folk have to scrounge for kittens when there are so many 5 month old house broken cats at the shelter who will be put down because there is no "suitable" home? I have never understood why geography makes a home suitable or unsuitable!

-- Terri (hooperterri@prodigy.net), April 29, 2002.

Homesteader, how would you like to live in MY county? They have passed an ordinance making it illegal to own more than 3 pets without a kennel license. I have a 70 acre farm, and was told that any feral cat that showed up at my barn, and stayed a week, was "my" cat! I had to trap out the cats, take them to the "humane shelter" (Ha Ha!)where they were killed, because they were feral. Otherwise, I could pay the $150 that is required for a kennel license. I am not making this up! Of course, over time, more full-grown cats show up at my barn, and I am out of compliance again. So, the answer is, the county doesn't care about the animals--they just saw an opportunity to make more money. What did Rush Limbaugh say? Follow the Money!

-- Judy in IN (whileaway3@cs.com), April 29, 2002.

We have barn cats, they do a good job of keeping the barns cleaned. We don't spay or neuter them, when we get more than 8, we get the .22's out and cull them. We always try to shoot the oldest or sickest ones.

-- mike (nospam@aol.com), April 29, 2002.

"After reading the posts from months back through today, I am starting to see why alot of non-homesteader people think that all homesteaders are 'backwoods & not too bright'"

I don't know who you are Kathy, or where you came from........but (and I have never said this to any participant on this board before) I really think you are out of your element here and need to go some place else to peddle your theories. It is my pet peeve when people show up from out of no where and sit in judgment of a lot of good people who don't share their views.

In Haiti the very hungry eat cats........my extra dollars will go to feed HUMANS not neutering CATS that wander in to my domain. I feed the hungry cats, goats milk and what ever else I have extra, and they either move on or stay and hunt and I have never had too many.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), April 29, 2002.


My barn cat population seems to remain relatively stable...usually running between 8 to 18. I have had several of the females spayed, as some seemed to be more tame and we've become quite attached to them. But the wild ones that come and go...I could never even attempt to trap and spay them all! When I can, I will catch them to quickly give them a rabies vaccine. But I've taken feral cats to my vet before and the first thing they want to do is do all sorts of tests, etc. which would cost way too much for me. Then the spay/neuter procedure on top of all that is another $40.00 plus!! Until vets...nationwide...give TOTALLY free spay/neuter clinics, there will always be pet over population! I think that there are lots more people who cannot afford to spay their pets than there are vets who could afford to do it for free once in awhile!! My barn cat population takes care of itself through survival of the fittest and natural selection. I always keep an ample supply of goats milk and dry cat food available in the barn for them (not to mention the butcher "goodies" they receive in the fall). I never have mice or rats AND they have even discourged raccoons from coming in the barn! Although I must say that nothing seems to deter the occasional skunk -)!! All my housecats, though, have been spayed/neutered!!

-- Marcia (HrMr@webtv.net), April 29, 2002.

I guess we're pretty lucky in that we live on top of a hill, and have never had a stray cat or dog wander in here. The last 2 kittens I got were dropped off at the vets, and they gave shots and exam, and then gave them to me for free. They are doing fine here, and stay here with the others.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), April 29, 2002.

I live in a very rural county in NC. We have ONE vet who does not participate in any reduced fee spay/neuter programs. Last cat we had spayed cost $55. Occasionally, the Humane Society in the next county will host the special Spay/neuter van from Charlotte. And the "reduced" fee is $50!! Counting gas and travel time (1 hour EACH way) this is not helpful at all. Obviously, not all areas of the US have the programs Kathy speaks of.

-- Bren (wayoutfarm@skybest.com), April 29, 2002.

Whew !!! Some heated discussions here !!! I too have barn cats. Most of them have found us..homeless kitties that came looking for a home and have had thier kittens in our barn. I have kept them and had them "fixed"..male and female. Now have 9. In our county is you take the kittens into the SPCA they will give you a free certificate to have the Momma cat fixed at the loca vets. I know all of the kittens won't find homes but I can't continure to pay out of my pocket for others who do not take the care and responsiblilty of their animals. It is a sad thing to see a big old tom cat, wild and starving with his ear ripped off from fighting and you can't get near him to help him !! I don't beleive that this is letting nature take its course. How about the rabies clinics...do they at least get a rabies shot ??? All of our cats are excellent mousers in the house and the barn and they get feed daily too. They are friendly and healthy and no worse off for having their "operation" done to them. Not having a male cat neutered and then he "pees" all over my hay bales that my animlas eat !! The smell and the health issue is a concern here for me. So...guess if you want a few cats in the barn..please take care of them...they are not wild..we have domesticated them to an extent and they look to humans for proper care. I realize they are there to do a job in the barn but please only keep a few that you can properly care for. Good Luck !!!

-- Helena (windyacs@npacc.net), April 29, 2002.

While I agree with some of Kathy's statements, I'm with Ardie...I was hoping to find an interesting, intelligent debate on this topic. Rudeness, insults and name calling will turn people against your cause faster than anything.

Our policy is to have every pet on our place spayed/neutered, or contained where it cannot add to the population. I don't care to feed 20 or more cats (13 is plenty, thank you) and since ours seem to learn to stay off the road and out of coyote hunting grounds, our cat population would be out of control quickly if we did not spay. We have the males neutered because they fight; I don't like paying for unnecessary vet bills, wasting time doctoring unnecessary wounds, or listening to cats fight at 2 a.m.! Spaying and neutering (pets) is what works best for us. Each person's situation is different and they have the right to handle it as they see fit.

Kathy does have some valid points. Our neighbors don't spay or neuter (they can afford to) and 2 summers ago with 5 females they ended up with over 30 kittens! I worked at the Humane Soc. some years ago, and I saw first hand what happens when people don't alter their pets. For those of you who think Humane Soc. workers are cruel and like to kill animals, let me tell you we dealt daily with multitudes of litters of kittens, puppies, etc. dumped on us. Many were so sick and malnourished we had no choice but to euthanize them immediately for their own sake and to keep others from contracting diseases. The owners would call us names, threaten us, etc. (at times we had to call for police protection) yet they would not spay their animals or take care of what their animals produced, and would soon be back with another litter for us to euthanize.

Here's some info about the average animal shelter: In ours, every single employee other than the manager worked for minimum wage. (The manager got a whopping $1000 a month gross.) Every employee came in early, stayed late, and worked full time or more including weekends, while being paid only for part time work. It was usually back breaking, unappreciated (by the public) grunge work. Many times we'd have people sentenced to community service choose to work off their time at our facility, thinking it would be "fun" to work with animals. Most refused to do what we did, and quit the first day. Every employee I knew despised euthanizing animals. Every time we did, we gently held and soothed the animals, and many, many tears flowed, accompanied by much anger toward the irresponsible people who forced this on us. The next week we'd see the same owners bring in yet another litter. The one time my manager gently and tactfully suggested spaying to a dog owner who'd brought in their second litter that summer, she received one of the most vicious, foul mouthed tongue lashings I've ever heard, was told to mind her own business and that we were all a bunch of murderers who loved to kill animals. (?)

We spent our own time walking dogs, bathing and grooming pets to make them more attractive for adoption, paid adoption fees out of our own pockets for people who wanted a pet and couldn't afford the fees, and personally adopted many animals whose time was up when we ran out of room. Animals were never put down for any reason other than illness, viciousness, or no room to take in even one more animal. Unfortunately, even stacking temporary cages 4 high on both sides of the hallway, in the bathroom, lunchroom, etc. we still ran out of room 2-3 days a week. Many of us fostered dogs and cats at our expense till homes could be found. I myself adopted 4 dogs, 12 cats, and a family of rats ( and I hate rats!). I also adopted 16 other dogs and at least 8 or 10 kittens that I had spayed/neutered, paid vet bills on, and nursed back to health, then ran ads and found homes for rather than let them be euthanized, all at my own expense. I was a divorced mom with 3 kids to support on min. wage. When I remarried, my dh forced me to quit the Humane Society because of the toll it was taking on me emotionally.

Every Humane Soc. employee I've ever known is no different, yet we are constantly being accused of loving to kill animals. I dare any of you who make that statement to spend 3 months working as a Humane Society volunteer. You would change your story in a hurry. I strongly disagree with many Humane Society policies, some are really wacko, but the employees do not deserve the abuse they get from the public. As for the exhorbitant fees, they do not even begin to cover the basic expenses of a shelter, even though the vets give a spay/neuter discount. Employees and volunteers spend their "free" time running fund raisers for most of the money needed to take care of the animals someone else should have the guts to be responsible for.

My apologies, I got carried away on a sore subject. I also get fed up with people who resort to bashing others over situations they know little about.

Kathy, I second Diane's motion that you find a more receptive forum if you are going to insult people because they don't agree with your opinions. (I personally find it appalling that you compare the loss of an animal with the loss of a child!) Most of the ranchers around here don't alter their barn cats, not because they're "not too bright" or because they're too cheap or don't care, but because the cats are too wild to catch. Generally the cat population does remain stable because of road kill and predators. While not an ideal situation, at least the cats have a home and are fed, which is more than they had where they came from. Almost ALWAYS they were dumped by city pet owners who don't spay, then dump the resulting litters on a rancher or homesteader who didn't ask for them. Please don't berate people who are doing the best they can, and aren't responsible for solving all the world's problems.

-- Lenette (kigervixen@nospam.com), April 29, 2002.


This topic seems to show up about every few months or so. No one ever agrees or settles the argument. Now lets get on to the fun stuff like who castrates animals at home and who uses a vet! LOL! Just kidding!!!

-- cowgirlone in ok (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), April 29, 2002.

Well, I wasn't going to even contribute to this, but I feel the need, so here goes. All those in favor of taking money that I would normally use to feed, house, clothe and care for my wife and children and using it to spay/neuter cats/dogs - I have a deal for you. I'll send you EVERY cat and dog I have, you pay to have them "fixed" and send back to me. I can promise you the transportation fees wouldn't amount to a fraction of the cost of getting all our outside pets and barn cats "fixed," as you call it (I never noticed they were "broken" ... but what would I know?).

Okay .... that one not work for you ... I'll make you another deal - get legislation passed so that those of us who would absolutely LOVE to go to the pound (I haven't seen one yet that would classify as a "humane society") and take home some of the wonderful furry creatures there and give them good homes can do it at no cost other than the cost to feed and care for the creature! How about that one???

No ... that one doesn't work for you either? Well then ... how about we control the overpopulated rascals like we do some wild animals - open a hunting season on them. I'm a pretty good shot and a .22 shell costs less than all the chemicals they use to put the poor critters to sleep with anyway - tax dollars problem solved!

No ... that doesn't work either? What I see in this line of thinking (you don't LOVE your pet if you don't have it "fixed" ... you should be more responsible ... yadda, yadda, yadda) is that there are those that like to rant and rave about how inhumane it is to have an animal and not have it "fixed" but don't really have an answer. Well, I have an answer of sorts ... I'm going to care for my animals (and there isn't a skinny one on the place) as I see fit and I will dispose of my animals as I see fit and I will control my animals as I see fit. Being the good neighbor I am, my animals don't bother my neighbors, my dogs don't kill chickens or chase other people's livestock (not and live to tell about it) and I do just fine, thank you! Anyone want my dog, cat, bunny, horse, cow, pig, goat, duck or even my chicken "fixed," and you aren't willing to put up the bucks for it ... I don't want to hear about it. One of the reasons this world is in the MESS it's in right now is because there are those that think they know better than I do how to take care of my animals and my children and my family. However, with all the possible consequences, when my girls get out of line and don't mind, they get a spanking. When my dogs kill chickens, I shoot them. Strange ... I've NEVER had any problems with my barn cats (none "fixed") - they don't run all over the country bothering folks, take care of the mice/rat population, give my daughters cute little kittens to play with from time to time and are well loved and taken care of. Imagine that!!!

Well shucks ... this got REAL long and added more to this than I intended at the start. It just gets my shorts in a wad when someone who doesn't know squat about my lifestyle and my way of doing things starts trying to tell me the "right" way of doing things and condemning me for being different. Guess that's it in a nutshell!

-- Phil in KS (mac0328@planetkc.com), April 29, 2002.


Well if I left that would be too easy. I guess if I'm going to voice My opinion I should expect the repercussions of it. I did not say that anyone was an idiot, I said the mindset of uncontrolled breeding due to the cost/loss factors was idiotic-a difference. I also said that letting cats breed continuously was inhumane,a point I feel is true. The figures from my post concerning the number of cats possible came directly from the Feral Cat Network, if you would like the address I'll gladly provide it. For Dave, true animals will breed if left in there own non neutered state, but without birth control or abstenence wouldn't humans have more than their personally desired number of children? At least humans have the option, leaving un-altered pets,or semi wild pets (barn cats) to breed because they can seems irresponsible at the least. Expecting nature to take care of the problem is asking alot, many end up in shelters, hunted for sport,abused & harassed since they get into someone elses garbage/barn/vehicles. In the pioneer days there was not spaying available but then again there weren't near the number of people who owned animals. Yes, breeders are a big part of the problem, breeding for profit seems to be the way alot of folks think they can get rich, but it is everyone's problem if they let their animals breed indiscrimanately just to dump the offspring onto an already over burdened shelter system or into the barn to basically fend for themselves, do you realize that some folks-none that posted but locals around my area don't even provide any food or water using the reasoning that they can eat mice & drnk from puddles? Does anyone see that as neglect or is it the standard mindset? These are the reasons I feel so strongly about the suffering that goes on, anyone who has rescued a litter of kittens along with the mother from a culvert all half starved & mange infested would understand the frustration. This is more common than many want to believe. Yes,nature made all creatures able to breed for the propogation of the species, just because we/they can doesn't mean it's in the best interest of the person or animal. "All things in moderation" As for the Humane Societies not adopting to country dwellers, I don't know what part of the country those who were denied the ability to adopt live in but in southern Ky, & middle TN, as long as the animal is neutered & current on shots when adopted farms are given just as much approval as city homes. By the way there are other shelters besides the Humane Society, there are rescue groups working in most areas, many without funding from the govt., which is another reason for the fee to adopt. It costs to feed,house,vet & spay/neuter every animal that leaves to a new home. If you can't afford/resent the adoption fee, adopt a 'free' kitten/cat & get the necessary vet work done, oddly it will cost just about the same as the shelters charge. Our county doesn't have a shelter, I work with shelters in the two surrounding counties plus do rescue work locally all at my own expense. As for being rude & insulting, yes I may have been rude & for that I apologize but as for insulting if you re-read the part about the stereotype of homesteaders as 'not to bright' I said that I felt offended when I first heard it too but it's posts like these that probably foster the stereotype. Maybe I could have said it differently but I still feel that anyone with a compassionate view would have been attacked. As for mice & rats -at no time did I say bring them in- in fact I even said I'm not talking about them having a couch & indoor life- just basic care & neutering. Just because they live outside doesn't mean we don't have a basic responsibility to provide a humane life. If they are providing a service that would seem to be the least we could do. Mice & rats are a problem, but mice & rats live even in areas where there are no barn cats to keep the population down so apparently there are other ways to deal with it- maybe better managemant practices would help if they are getting in the feed. All I know I don't have that problem with my feed & I don't have barn cats but I do put hardware cloth around the feed bins which even a very small mouse cannot breach. Cleaning up old feed & keeping the weeds down around the barns might also help, I know it did for me. Rat & mice traps would also be an option. Contrary to what many probably think, I'm not an animal rights activist, if I have a rat problem I would do what I could to change the conditions but if that didn't work yes I would put out traps & kill them, it's just killing isn't my first thought but figuring out why they are attracted to my place in the first place. I also don't kill black snakes since they will keep the mice/rat population in check. There is a couple of things no one answered, how do you feel about your semi-wild cats killing the neighbors birds,squirrels,chipmunks,etc if the neighbor enjoys having them in their yard? Also, semi wild cats will kill chicks & ducklings, so how would you handle the problem if your neighbor came to you saying your cats killed their young poultry? Would you be willing to pay him for his loss? Also does anyone feel that the way we treat our animals does affect the way our children percieve life in general? I am not advocating anyone opening a cat or any other animal rehab, just trying to point out that there is ways to keep 'mousers' without making them suffer through numerous pregnancies, predator harassement, and becoming the neighborhood problem. As for the remark/post concerning cats kept indoors that don't know how to fend for themselves if they get out, my oldest cat is 13, she's always been indoors but has her claws - I feel that declawing is cruel since they take off the first joint of each toe. She did finally get loose one day, made like a mad kitty going after birds & anything that moved,she came when she was called & has never been back out since. She never learned the hunting skills from her mother or during her 13 yrs with us so if a cat that accidentally gets out is unable to find its way to the front door I'd say the problem is more likely an inbred cat than being an indoor only cat. Inbreeding can produce some pretty 'dumb' animals that don't seem to have any basic instincts. Also, I used my own name & e-mail address something that the original poster didn't do. I guess my opinions/convictions are at least honest as is my name & address, many may not like them but it is my opinion and I'm willing to sign my name to them. Peace & Compassion, Kathy

-- Kathy Aldridge (beckoningwinds@yahoo.com), April 29, 2002.

I did mean to mention that I've worked at an animal shelter in the past - worst thing I EVER did in my life was put a cat to sleep the day after a little girl wanted to take it home and couldn't because momma didn't have the "adoption fee" and the shelter wouldn't let her take it home. Gave my notice right then and there. There wasn't a day go by at that place that I didn't have a broken heart - "humane society" INDEED!

-- Phil in KS (mac0328@planetkc.com), April 29, 2002.

I agree about it being too expensive to adopt from the humane society, and then they make you get the animal microchipped--and let me tell you, if a person doesn't have the time/inclination/knowledge to take a found animal to the vet or animal control to have the chip read, the chip is $7+ wasted, imho. You can't tell from the outside that the animal has been chipped. If you want your animal back, collar and tag it, and hope that the person finding your animal doesn't keep it for themselves (that happens too, you know).

As to spaying barn cats, there are enough natural predators/ environmental conditions to keep the cat population under control. On the other hand, if you live in the city, neutering is part of responsible pet ownership. Dogs are a tougher question, regardless or being in the city or the country, because of the prevalence of dog bites--cats will almost never bite unless cornered, dogs will bite at the slightest provocation, so neutering helps to keep the feral dog population down, imho.

And, by the way Kathy, not everyone is wild about squirrels (and other rodents), and birds in bird feeders making all sorts of noise, singing or not.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 29, 2002.


Also, what is adequate vet care for a cat? Most people I know with cats neuter them if they're housecats, but aside from major problems, they do not do the vet thing--and it isn't because they're cheap, it's because they don't go to the doctor every year either. Most of their animals have lived long and happy lives anyway.

Dogs, aside from the neutering, same thing, except for the rabies shots (which are necessary, imho), they don't go to the vet every year either. Again, because the owners aren't going to treat them any better than they treat themselves.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 29, 2002.


Nope Kathy, won't give me kitten unless it has an indoor only home. Our doors and windows are open all the time, I couldn't keep one inside if I wanted to, which I don't. And we have NO low cost spay/nueter programs. Gotta be on welfare I quess to qualify for that.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), April 29, 2002.

Here in SW Wisconsin a clinic in Lancaster castrates male cats free one Sat a year (Sorry I don't know the date) and a clinic in Prairie du Chien just did a $10 castration day. I have 4 castrated barn cats, wouldn't have an un-altered animal. I have been involved in shelters and rescue since I was 16 and have to agree with Kathy on that point. I would tend to spend my money on animals, people make their own beds. However, I don't try to force my beliefs on others. I'm a vegetarian, but don't lecture others on their meat consumption. Kathy, stay here. A forum needs all sorts of folks and opinions. Stay and defend you beliefs in a civilized manner.

-- Dianne (yankeeterrier@hotmail.com), April 29, 2002.

To Phil and others who claim it is their "right" to let their pets breed: My father told me once that a person's right to swing their arm, ends at the tip of another person's nose. In other words, you have the right to raise your kids & pets the way you want, but when your excess kittens end up in MY yard, or in MY tax-supported animal shelter, or under the wheels of MY car, then your rights are beginning to infringe upon my own. This is really not even an issue about rights...it's just simple logic! There are TOO MANY cats and dogs born every year. We, as a society, kill several hundred thousand of them every year. So who in their right mind would ADD MORE?????? It's not about rights, it's about numbers!

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), April 29, 2002.

"Maybe I could have said it differently but I still feel that anyone with a compassionate view would have been attacked"

Kathy, you have a right to feel how ever you want to feel but this is just one more judgmental statement.

Well said Phil..........Shannon...........READ what Phil said. He tends to HIS animals.........I tend to MY animals, and a good many strays that come in here looking for a hand out. Dianne......I suppose that humans make their own beds, but the children did NOT.

I would wager that most of the people on this board have been involved in multiple rescues and have very compassionate hearts regarding their pets and animals, they just don't go around tooting their own horns or trying to tell other people what they should be doing.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), April 29, 2002.


I sure would like to know WHERE I can have animals spayed/neutered for $10.00. Serious.

When I moved to my farm, I inherited a mess of feral cats, who kept having kittens, that I would take and have "fixed". At one time the count was over 50 cats I was feeding. Used to buy cat food on pallets.

The humane society offered a coupon that you sent in payment for, and then gave to the vet. My vet, opting out of the paperwork, ( in the beginning) would supposedly do the "fix" for the same cost. "Course that didn't include the cost of all the shots I had to pay for just to bring the animal into the clinic. The cheapest I ever paid was somewhere around 35.00. I would gather up any cat I could find and have them fixed.

I managed, over time, to get all the cats fixed but one, and finally I caught her, took her to the vet, and when I went to pick her up I was presented with a bill for over $100.00. Shock!!! I complained, explained the "deal" the vet always had with me, and they "kindly" reduced the bill to $63.00. $63.00. Who can afford to clean up the feral pet populations for this kind of money? Well, count me out.

I don't think I believe that the vets are really concerned with doing THEIR part to clean up the feral pet population, if it means a decrease in THEIR pocket purses.

-- Judy (JMcFerrin@aol.com), April 29, 2002.


I am in upstate NY .A retired vet volenteers at the animal shelter several times a month.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), April 29, 2002.

When you call someones idea's or thinking idiotic, your saying they are the ideas or thinking of an idoit. Different yet the same. But I expect they can read as well as I can. I gotta admit this thread is fascinating. I have to ask: how does neutering a cat stop it hunting neighbors chicks? Coyote powered population control may or may not be more or less humane than spay neuter but what happens once the entire population is in fact eaten? (PS trapping rats is a joke, been there done that, poison works but kills slowly and leaves toxic corpses) If I "own" wild animals would I not be responcible for the deer (that may or may not live in my treed acreage) being hit by cars, and can I pass on a portion of that bill to my neighbor who I deliberatly saw planting corn in a feild to feed them? If the (sorry "my") barn swallows (cute live dive bombing devils that they are, who might (or might not) be trespassing in my barn eves) crap in my neighbors pool won't I be responsible for his granddaughters birth defect if his damned fool daughter drinks the water??? By golly I'd better phone my insurance agent, and sharpen up my marksmans skills. Those wild critters gotta go!!! Things will be soooooooo much better once ALL the wildlife are killed off, I'm sure I'll sleep better. Thanks Kathy got any more bright ideas? You've convinced me!!! PS: want a kitten? I've got em so they're happy just attacking the glove if you toss it in first. By the way I'm kidding just so you know for absolute sure. Well not about the glove thing some truth is bound to come out.

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), May 01, 2002.

Spay 'em or not, when they come quail hunting in my chicken yard they are not likely ever to leave. "Barn Cats" killed all the little guineas I gave my buddy, and they try to get half-grown chicks here. I shoot every one I can draw a bead on. These pests kill more quail, rabbit and songbirds than all the possum and skunks and coon in the country. I have never understood the pride people take in maintaining a public nuisance such as a roaming cat. Mac

-- Jimmy S. (Macrocarpus@gbronline.com), May 01, 2002.

interesting that nobody wants to touch the comment I made about the core problem of this overpopulation being the concept of petowning that's exploded in the last century and the businesses and organizations behind promoting it. I offered out that this is the true reason for all the dogs and cats dying in shelters, not people using cats and dogs on farms. Too close to home for most I guess... ; )

Diane, I agree with what you said above about others telling people what they should do in regards to these kinds of things. It's a shame when compassion is politicized and turned into an agenda. I'm always suspicious about peoples motivations for that.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), May 02, 2002.


Well shucks ... caught three mice in traps in the rabbit house last night ... I need MORE CATS!!!!!!!!! {eViL GrIn} You folks are great ... REALLY! :8)

-- Phil in KS (mac0328@planetkc.com), May 02, 2002.

Just a few thoughts -

Anecdotal evidence does not an argument make. What you actually see with your own two eyes does not always reflect reality across the board.

I do live in a rural area. Some of the problems that occur with this are that many people have a false idea that when they see a barn, it is a good place to drop off unwanted cats. My closest neighbor had the same idea that homesteader does, that the cat population would take care of itself. He was partially right, quite often I would see their bodies lying along the road near and around his property. And each spring, I would usually end up with a batch of sickly, malnourished, and diseased kittens, that I would usually take into the local humane society to be euthanasized.

I did keep one of these poor fellows. One spring I was outside feeding the chickens and heard mewling and crying, and when I looked around I found a tiny orange kitten, who was maybe six weeks old. He was soaking wet, dirty, and smelled distinctly like manure and hay. His eyes were sealed shut with pus, he had a sever upper respiratory infection, and his ribs were showing, but he hopped towards me as though it was the best day of his life.

I got him cleaned up and vaccinated, but to this day, he is partially blind due to the severity of the eye infection. He's about 4 years old now, and would have never survived outside on his own.

I just think it's poor character to knowingly let an animal suffer. No, you don't have any control over the suffering of wild animals, but if you are persistent, feral cats can be trapped rather easily with a box trap. Most local humane societies and animal control agencies will even provide them for you and come to pick up the animal once it is trapped. You have choices about what you do in life. When you allow cats to breed on your property, fully knowing that they can suffer, it just displays a certain lack of respect and compassion for living things.

A good hunter would never fire a shot knowing that the animal might get away wounded. A decent person would do the right thing and "put down" any animal or livestock that they knew were suffering. And just imagine if people took the same casual attitude about dogs as they do cats, allowing them to roam and breed freely, killing off wildlife, becoming wildly dangerous, spreading disease, and posing a threat to humans.

I have a sister who is 12 years younger than I am. She is currently studying biology in college to become a veterinarian. She has loved animals from the time she was just a small child. When she was about 8 years old, she came across a stray cat wandering around the yard outside, and true to her gentle nature, attempted to take care of the poor thing, because it seemed obviously ill.

It had rabies.

Not only did she have to go through months of rabies shots after the cat bit her several times on the forearm, but two of her beloved cats had to be destroyed as well after they came in contact with the afflicted animal. Back then, the law didn't require all pets to have rabies shots, and unfortunately, we didn't know any better. Imagine explaining that to an eight year old girl.

There is really no good excuse not to spay your animals.

-- bantling (not@this.time), May 02, 2002.


dave, that's funny.......I totally misunderstood what you wrote...petowning......thought it was some sort of mispelled word.LOL. Pet owning mentality..........yes, such a HUGE business now. I wish it were not so, but I sure don't see it going away any time soon. When I was growing up the family dog was a WORK dog, as was the cat population. We didn't have coyote cause the government had not introduced them to our area to keep the deer population down. Now the coyote chase the cats, who chase the mice, etc. etc. The deer are the greatest cause of accidents in our county and do extensive damage to our crops, but the hunters get all honked off if a farmer wants to thin the population out of season. Such a pickle we have gotten ourselves in!!!

The truth of the matter for me is.........I just had the first litter of cats born on my place in 28 years. If I happen to aquire a PET cat, I have it fixed. Same way with dogs. It saves me having to find homes for pups or kittens. I just don't want some duddly do- gooder telling me what I need to do on MY farm. Oh, and I sure as heck can't get it done for any ten bucks!!!! I just checked. I guess I could if I wanted to drive 50 miles, but that would mean two days shot to heck so I guess I will just pay the 50 bucks that our one and only local vet will charge to get my mama kitty who has claimed us fixed.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), May 02, 2002.


There is also the considerstion that you do not KNOW everything that your loose animal is doing while loose. Is it hunting over on the nearby acres by raiding their bluebird nests or tormenting the chipmunk population (the owner is feeding them, you know)? See, my pest is your pet and vice-versa. As long as your barn cat stays in your barn, great. But when it enters mine, be prepared for a fight--- and it better be neutered.

Right now, we are having trouble with a loose dog at night. Can't seem to find anyone who knows it or the owner. Meantime my dogs (confined) and chickens suffer. It could just as easily be a cat (has, infact, in the past). More important than neutering, is keeping them on your property if they are your responsibility. Then your willfully un-neutered pet won't interact with mine and perpetuate the problem.

-- Anne (HealthyTouch101@wildmail.com), May 02, 2002.


Moderation questions? read the FAQ