i was on another forum (not homestead related) when i saw a posting from a guy about PA allowing whichever agency is responsible to put meters on private wells and charge the owner for their water use? has anyone here heard of this crap? i already have a big problem with the govt at any level telling people what they can and can't do with their private property.

-- Pops (pops762@hotmail.com), April 20, 2002

Answers

Now how in "Sam Hill" can you charge for well water if you own the land and well? Makes no sense to me.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), April 20, 2002.

Sounds like another "bright" idea from sam. Next will be a "air meter" to charge for your last breath. sheesh. guberment who needs it?

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), April 20, 2002.

this has been a rumored possibility here in Texas, too.

hasn't happened yet.

water rights are going to be a BIG issue in the future.

-- Rose (open_rose@hotmail.com), April 20, 2002.

This is common practice in Florida for over 20 years.

-- mitch hearn (moopups@citlink.net), April 20, 2002.

yup, had this in florida...

-- Sissy (iblong2Him@ilovejesus.net), April 20, 2002.

It ain't just Uncle Sam with that bright-assed idea. Have a friend who worked for one department of government here in Ontario, he told me that that idea is on the books and a possibility that they'd do it here in Ontario in the future.

-Chelsea

-- Chelsea (rmbehr@istar.ca), April 20, 2002.

I have heard of meters being used to supposedly make sure people aren't exceeding a certain usage level (if you applied as a homeowner you aren't supposed to be using what a business is using, for example), but not what you're talking about.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 20, 2002.

There comes a time in every man's life when he must decide when enough is enough. I'm fast approaching my half century mark. Most everything a man could value in this country has been butchered or raped ! I fiqure that I have one good fight left in me.

So let these read as an open invitatation to any government agency that would like to meter what I paid for---- The next thing you wish to take from me will be purchased with your blood. Beware of any man that has nothing left to lose for he has already lost any fear of you !

-- Joel Rosen (JoelnBecky@webtv.net), April 20, 2002.

In PA the bigger users in the Susquehanna River basin like farms are being asked to register. Because of the ongoing drought, I think they're considering a tax on water.

-- Darren (df1@infi.net), April 20, 2002.

Yes, in areas where they're putting township water in and giving you the option to stay on your well(some don't give the option or so they think). As with alot of government oppression, you can usually find a way around it quietly.

Alot of that oppression only happens when you submit to it. Things like permits in PA, the most insane was when I was in the rental biz. People would have to pay $100 for a permit so they could set up a small 20x20 party tent to be used for 4 hours for a backyard bbq. No permit and they took a chance of the fire inspectors(part-time revenue enforcers?) stopping by and shutting the event down. Permits(revenue) for just about anything you want to do with your house or land.

Or the outrageous school taxes in some areas that are the same whether you make 10k or 100k income(in the trash and problem solved, they had no recourse in the end) Mandatory inspections for cars that many garages capitalized on with people who wouldn't know a fuse from a wiring harness.(easy to buy legit stickers on the street for $20 and save your money) 6% Sales tax on used vehicles every single time it sold(lots of cars sold for $1-100 when you go to change the title) And a bunch more I probably shouldn't mention. There's ways to fight back without putting yourself at risk. Sad thing is most people willingly submit and never ignore, question or stand up.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), April 21, 2002.

Yes, Dave, and you are exactly right. This is mentioned specifically in the United States Declaration of Independence, which, by the way, I teach to my Business Communication students.

I quote... "...all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security..."

From the list of abuses and usurpations of power by King George... "He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures."

"He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance." "For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent"

Heed what is happening in this country.

-- Rose (open_rose@hotmail.com), April 21, 2002.

Pops, Can you tell us anymore about this discussion or could you possibly tell me where you read it? I am concerned as both my present residence and hopeful homestead are in PA. With all the development here in SE PA, I can only imagine what they have planned. Thanks in advance for any additional info. Did a google search and did not come up with much. Cindy

-- Cindy (CBirder@aol.com), April 21, 2002.

I will be polite, ^%$#$% gov. Glad opted for rain water collection. You might want to consider it too, instead of any new well drilling, especially if the lichen still grows on the trees in your area. Of course if your in a 'cemtrail' area; this would not be a good idea. ^%%$$#@ government. Then again you never know how much of that seeps into the ground water.

-- T Carroll (caerhuill@att.net), April 21, 2002.

What well? where? Huh? Duh?

-- Ed Copp (OH) (edcopp@yahoo.com), April 21, 2002.

I don't have the particulars at my fingertips but I do recall that there have been efforts in some areas to tax rainwater collection, or if you will, rainfall. guess sunshine is next.

baaaaaaaaa. baaaaaaaaaaaa.

-- B. Lackie - Zone3 (cwrench@hotmail.com), April 21, 2002.

First they've got to get on my land to try to put the meter on my well, that's when it gets interesting.....

-- rose marie wild (wintersongfarm@yahoo.com), April 21, 2002.

The article I read was in the April 6th Lancaster Farming newspaper. Here's a synopsis.

The state water plan has not been revised since 1975.

In 1995 the Susquehanna River Basin Commission (SRBC) adopted a regulation that requires all surface and groundwater withdrawals of more than 10,000 gal per day be registered.

The SRBC reviews new registrations to determine if the new water withdrawal will impact the current registered withdrawals.

Operations that use more than 20,000 gal per day are required to compensate for their use during critical low flows by either:

1 Suspending use.

2. Releasing water stored upstream or utilizing on-site stored water.

3. Paying the SRBC a consumptive use fee of $0.14 per 1000 gal.

In PA legislation is being considered to update the state water plan more frequently and require users of more than 10,000 gal daily to register.

That legislation is House Bill 2230.

For the forseeable future unless you're using 10,000 gal or more per day and it's during a drought period, no one from a state agency is going to put a meter on your well.

-- Darren (df1@infi.net), April 21, 2002.

According to Colorado water law, collecting rainfall is illegal since it has been figured into the runoff for apportionment. If you want to collect rainwater and the gov hears of it they can (and have done) force you to pay for the water!

-- kim in CO (kimk61252@hotmail.com), April 21, 2002.

Kim - -that one takes the cake ! How could the people of Colorado permit something like that to become law? Nevermind. Just like everywhere else. No one is paying attention. . . .and if they are. . they figure it doesn't affect them. . . and if it affects them, they are in the minority and don't stand a chance in hell of being heard.

-- Judy (JMcFerrin@aol.com), April 21, 2002.

people are too busy living like drones and being dumbed down by tell-a-vision. I've tried to talk to people about taxes and most just don't care. They never stop to add it all up. They don't consider they're taxed over and over on the same income when the make the money, spend it and save it. They don't seem to care that a large amount of their taxes go to unnecessary administration and bureaucracy. As long as they have enough left over to do a few things they enjoy, nobody questions how much of their time and effort goes to paying taxes. In some areas, the property taxes are so extreme that I find it hard to believe there hasn't been riots on administrative offices. I really think it's too late for people to wake up.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), April 21, 2002.

Do you think they would try and monitor our artesian well??

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), April 21, 2002.

Private wells draw water from the aquafer, and the govt uses that as an excuse to regulate it.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), April 21, 2002.

don't give them any ideas Diane ; )

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), April 21, 2002.

There have been rumors of metered private wells here in Washington. Not something I'm looking forward to.

-- Bonnie (stichart@plix.com), April 21, 2002.

Joel is 100% right. Just remember when the ballon pops, Joel, "You are not alone".

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), April 21, 2002.

Its the law, you might own the land, but the government owns the water.

That is why someone can take a boat on water that is over your property line, but they can't wade in it.

-- Rudy (rbakker@wcrtc.net), April 21, 2002.

Joel,

I'm with you. It's time for the few free people of us still left out here to stand our ground. There are far too many people hanging from the government teat, that don't see anything wrong with more government, higher taxes, and government "communal" control of all!

-- Woodsbilly n.c. Pa. (coleenl@penn.com), April 21, 2002.

I think that most people figure that they are already paying for their water since they are hooked up to a municiple water source and don't really care about the minority who "march to a different drummer". As to the raincatch, I'll do it if I want, and see if it is worth it to "them" to fight me over it. kim

-- kim in CO (kimk61252@hotmail.com), April 21, 2002.

Po Lo Yang said: "The dispute does not surprise me, but what does surprise me is the quiet and the patience of the people."

-- B. Lackie - Zone3 (cwrench@hotmail.com), April 21, 2002.

This whole conversation has, thus far ben very one sided. I have mixed emotions. I dont agree with gov interference on private property. HOWEVER: think about this... we are apparently having a drought on the east coast. I live next to a large pig farm that pumps water from a well through their facility and into an uncovered pond, where most evaporates into the air. Now if my well goes dry sometime in the future because Joe Shmoe the pig farmer stupidly wasted it all- I would be thinking "dang the county never stepped in and took care of this." Taxing LARGE users of water has some added benefits... it makes for a business that is more water conscious and conservatory. And, if they tax water the guy who waters his manacured lawn had better rethink his approach. I hate ov interference, but this is one that I would be willing to grudgingly accept for the betterment of the whole. AND homesteaders are about the most water frugal people there are, so this won't affect us much at all- IF any of this taxed metering comes into being. Perhaps, intstead of a flat metered tax, tax ONCE your usage hit a certain level, and none before that (almost a fine) would be better. But the only way such a system would work is if everyones well was metered! If we lived in a perfect world... every body would be water consious and this wouldnt be a concern at all. But some people, it seems, are gluttons, be it money, oil, water, or anything else. Tax it.

-- Kevin in NC (Vantravlrs@aol.com), April 22, 2002.

Well Kevin, seems like this is how government has intruded in our lives thus far..people go along with it. You are right that many people are not water conscious, however unless they shut off the water after a certain usage this will not work. We all know some people will pay for anything and then feel it gives them the right to do with it whatever they want. So only those that run out of money will have to conserve water. Makes me sick here in the east that the golf courses have to cut back by 1/3 of water usage, so the one mentioned can only use 644,000 gallons per week. I am all for free enterprise and not against golf courses, but this is a waste! I can remember the first Earth Day 32 years ago and I have to say I can not see much progress since then. We all know land, water, oil and many other things are in finite supply, but most do not seem to care. Makes me sad for my kids. Cindy

-- Cindy Noll (Cbirder@aol.com), April 22, 2002.

Around here the worst waster is the town! If you see water running off into the gutter it is usually coming from a town park or one of the schools. They have the sprinklers set on timers and nobody bothers to check them or don't care if the water is wasted. In the meantime, the city water bills are so high that poorer folk don't think they can afford to water a vegie garden!

-- kim in CO (kimk61252@hotmail.com), April 22, 2002.

There trying to do that in SE OK. Texas wants and needs to buy water and they want it from SE OK. the Indians say they own all the water rights, including rain water! There was a bill that was up recently that wanted to sell this water to Texas, half going to two different Indian Tribes and the rest to the State of OK. All water would come from SE OK. They would tax us for our ponds, wells (mine is an artesian one) and of course it wouldn't effect too much the people getting rural water. Now how are they going to tax me on my ponds I don't know and if they wanted the water how would they get it. Anyway we won for the moment but the rest of OK. doesn't see a problem, I guess if it was they well they might!

-- debbie (bwolcott@cwis.net), April 22, 2002.

The next world war will not be fought over oil or terrorism, it will be over water.

-- rose marie wild (wintersongfarm@yahoo.com), April 22, 2002.

yup, sacromento valley,CA. monitors water use, don't know about the rest of cali.

a farmer friend of mine bought 200 acres of 'dustlands'[1960's?] there w/ a loan from her parents & in-laws . she & hubby hand dug the irrigation troughs, planted windbreaks & raised red clover for seed and other soil enriching crops. she has now turned 3/4 into almond & plum orchards.

-- bj pepper ,in central MS. (pepper.pepper@excite.com), April 23, 2002.

Sounds like it's time to get politically active. Had friends living in Australia - built a huge cistern, pond. Government taxes rainwater collected in the cistern.

-- V (WraitheLadyA@yahoo.com), April 24, 2002.

Kevin in NC is right, there are two sides to every story. Now a question to all you government haters; Who is the government?

The govenment can only do what we WANT it to do.

-- Diana in FL (dvance4@juno.com), April 25, 2002.