I realize its off topic but I just read the book, and was very impressed with it. I was wondering what the list thinks of it.

-- mike pobega (thearea19@aol.com), April 20, 2002

Answers

I read it and didn't care for it. It was supposed to be a "transcript" of conversations had over a period of time between Dave Hun and Bill Jay.

Now, I realize that these guys are English, but even the English don't talk like this... The prose, the phrasing, the LONG drawn out "pontificating" just wore on me after a while....

In short the book says : Shoots lots of film ( everything takes practice and photography is no different); If your a street shooter, you're going to have to engage your subject and take some risk to get the the "good shots"; Rules of compsosition are for those who have no eye for composotion.

That's about all I got from it...

Other than that... it came off... TO ME.... as a couple of old farts talking (in the queen's English no less)of glory days and patting each other on the back.

Just MY opinion.... b~

-- Bob (bobflores@attbi.com), April 20, 2002.

Well, I rather enjoyed it, because of the approach: "Know what you are trying to do, then go do it." Pardon the pun, but there are a lot of unfocussed people, running around taking pictures. In any field of endeavor, those who have goals and work toward them seem to accomplish more than those who don't.

-- Phil Stiles (Stiles@metrocast.net), April 20, 2002.

I liked it somewhat. Some of it was a bit obvious, yet there were things that are abovious and need to be said again because some of us are too hard-headed to listen. I particularly liked the part about how you should work for a body of work, and you need sustained access to a subject to do that.

The title is not to be confused with Susan Sontag's "On Photography," which is easily one of the worst, most pretentious books I have ever read. Or should say tried to read. I couldn't get through it without throwing it at the wall.

-- Masatoshi Yamamoto (masa@nifty.co.jp), April 20, 2002.

I am constantly amazed at the ignorance of the history of our medium revealed in on-line photography fora. Those "old farts," Bob, have forgotten more about photography than you will ever know. Bill Jay is one of the most perceptive photography critics of our day, and David Hurn is a long-time member of Magnum, which pretty much speaks for itself. He has created an outstanding lifetime body of work, for which he has been widely recognized and honored.

With that off my chest, let me say that I feel the greatest value of the book is its emphasis on working on projects, rather than going out photographing at random as most of us do. Most of us do not have what it takes to choose a subject and work through it until we have created a worthwhile body of work. Consequently, all most of us will ever have to show for our photographic existence is a few random photographs.

-- Dave Jenkins (djphoto@vol.com), April 21, 2002.

Just my opinion, but Sontag's book is one of the most liberating and intelligent critiques of the photographic project and its underpinnings and effects to have ever been written. Outstanding.

So there! ;-)

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), April 21, 2002.

To agree broadly with Dave, the main point of the book is that subject matter is more important than technique/composition etc etc. It's an annoyingly opinionated but ultimately useful book, imo.

-- Steve Jones (stephenjjones@btopenworld.com), April 21, 2002.

Steve, thanks for your agreement. Jay and Hurn have a right to be opinionated: they've been around the block and paid their dues several times over.

Rob, most people would probably agree with you about Sontag's book. When I first read it, I also thought she was saying nice things about photography. Then I read a review (in "Camera 35," if I remember correctly) by that ardent Socialist/Humanist but wonderful photographer, Lou Stettner, who demonstrated that "On Photography" is cuttingly, chillingly, anti-photography. She stabbed our medium in the back so smoothly that many of us still think she praisd it.

-- Dave Jenkins (djphoto@vol.com), April 21, 2002.

Well, I don't feel I'm on the side of photography particularly. My own photography, of course yes! As I recall - and I read the book many years agao - she was very critical of the social impact of photography and it's distortion of our perception of events and culture, and it rang pretty true to me at the time. Another excellent read, IMO, is "Reading National Geographic" by I forget who, which is also very critical of the NG project as such.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), April 21, 2002.

yup... they probably have "forgotten more about photography than I'll ever know" but they certainly didn't put in this book either.

I forgot the point about working on specific projects... good point.... but is any of this a real "revalation"?

And just because they are great photographers ( something I don't dispute), doesn't make them great writers. The points they make are fairly obvious.

My photographic hero is HCB. But have you ever read "The Mind's Eye"? BORING... Pontificating... If ever there was an ego attatched to a Leica, it's Him. Righfully so, but that doesn't mean that I have respect his writing skills for because he's a fantastic photographer.

I think the real issue is that there are two components to photography that must be mastered in order to become truly great.

The mechanical side, which is all bout mastering the equipment. Any photography book can teach you this.

And the artistic side. Which ironically enough, NO ONE can teach you. It's something that one has to learn and develop all on one's own and all the books in the world aren't going to help you "learn to be artistic".

And since art, by it's very nature is subjective and individual, trying to teach someone the "philosophy of art" amounts to, in my opinion, like trying to teach someone to breath.

(The preceeding is the express opionion of Bob and Bob only and do not represent the opinions of anyone else expressed, or implied. All flames will be summarily ignored)

-- Bob (bobflores@attbi.com), April 21, 2002.

Sorry, but I don't know of the book. How about the complete title, author(s) and ISBN number? Thanks.

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), April 22, 2002.

Michael-

On Being a Photographer and On Photography

-- jeff (debontekou@yahoo.com), April 22, 2002.

Thanks, Jeff!

Mike

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), April 22, 2002.