Maybe women do serve a purpose after all : LUSENET : A Country Singletree : One Thread

Okay, I have come to a revision of my post divorce position that I didn't need a woman for anything now. I know one thing they have to be around for..... to get a guy to clean house past the "bachelors levels of cleanliness" :>) Yesterday, I ran into a girl I went to school with and she wants me to cook for her next week on her off day, so we can catch up on the last 20 years. This house is getting the first real complete cleaning its had since Thanksgiving :>) Sad part is it wasn't until after we agreed to the date that I found out she has three kids 5 to 13 (out of my league :>). I don't think I am going to very available after our dinner next week. Her with three kids, maybe I should cook real bad to make sure it doesn't go anywhere past the dinner date :>)

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (, April 12, 2002


Jay,, cook a good meal, ,just dont clean a thing !!!!!!!

-- Stan (, April 12, 2002.

Suggestion: It's time to, Jay pops open the oven door and pulls out....with appropiate fanfare....12 of mickey dee's famous gut bombs!!!......and out of the fridge he pulls 4 packets of wonderfull French fries in all their druppy glory!!!

This should keep the dinner date to a minimum amount of time!

-- Jim-mi (, April 12, 2002.

maybe a gormet dinner, then let the dogs clean the dishes :>) She's a looker with great personality, but Three children. If I could keep it easy going for seven or eight years,maybe, but she's looking now, says two years divorced is enough for her. I will sure plan out my next date attempt different. Young children got me gunshy anyway. This whole situation has me spooked. Wonder if it would work showing her all the advances I am doing in my Singletree Seedling and Produce Farm and have my place looking like Shreks house. Maybe she would figure me to be the terminal bachelor. I like the dating and company, just not interested in a ready made family this quick. s

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (, April 12, 2002.

Yes,,Jay,,women DO serve many wonderful just have to find the one that you are comfortable with,,and enjoy being around for more than a few hours...You will know when it happens. I know the feeling,,sometimes it's discouraging,,we think it will NEVER happen,,but stay happy and keep hopin',and who knows,,maybe this dinner will turn out to be a nice occasion,,,keep us posted.:-)..Patsy

-- Patsy, MT (, April 12, 2002.

If something in your mind is waveing a red flag than take heed.... What good is a *looker* if a part of the package is driving you to distraction?

Luck to ya.

-- Jim-mi (, April 12, 2002.


I guess I'm just nervous. I spent a total of 21 years working on two marriages and finally came out of my cave last month to go to a "get down on the farm" party and I realized I want to just let something grow with whatever woman it feel right with , no rushing.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (, April 12, 2002.

Why play games, Jay? Why not just be honest with this woman from the start and stop wasting her valuable time and precious energy? If children are baggage that you WILL NOT for (whatever reason) consider as part of a "package" deal, no matter how GREAT the package, then do EVERYONE a favor and let it be known loud and clear before this goes EVEN ONE step further.

Why entertain the possibility of even ONE date? Why not just say " Hey, you're great, you're wonderful, love your company, but I am NOT ABOUT TO TAKE ON EVEN THE SLIGHTEST POSSIBILITY OF ALL THOSE KIDS!!! Ditch the kids, lady, and we just MIGHT have a future together."


And did it ever occur to you that maybe you are NOT the perfect made- to-order package yourself?

Perhaps there is a ton of baggage that YOU have to deal with too, Mister ,including your unwillingness/inability to stretch beyond your own "comfort zone" where NO CHILDREN ARE ALLOWED!!!

How thankful I am that my own father was no nearly so selfish and narrowminded! He was 24 and met my mother, twice divorced with two precious little girls of her own...and he took a chance and because he loved my mother and my mother loved these little girls, he loved them also. THAT is unconditional love, something you are obviously NOT acquainted with!

Let these innocents know how you feel NOW, before anyone gets hurt.


did it ever occur to you that not every woman is eyeballing you as her next MISTER RIGHT but might they are just looking at you as their Mister RightNow ?

And it doesn't appear this lady will have to go too far to get caught up with you and the changes in your life since high school... you're STILL shallow, immature, selfish, and alone.

Some things, and some people, never change.

-- Dr. Laurel (, April 12, 2002.

hay Jay dr.laura sounds like my ex. and i would of cancled when i found out about the kids. i raised mine expect everone else to do the same Bob se.ks

-- Bobco (, April 12, 2002.

Dr. Laural,

I sense quite a bit of accumulated frustration in your response to Jay's situation. You went on the offensive without taking into consideration that while some people consider children the most important part of a relationship, others may not. Some personalities can function well with one child only, while others need more for fufillment. You accuse Jay of "playing a game", yet you defend a divorcee with three children who is "tired of two years of divorced life". From the preceeding postings, it appears that the woman is approaching the situation deceptively by concealing the fact she has children until after the date has been scheduled.

As I see it, Jay has the perfect opportunity to have an enjoyable evening with an old aquaintence and can divest himself of any future unpleasentries tactfully over dinner.

His uneasiness can easily be explained by the fact that he did provide for a woman and her child for many years, only to have them deceptively leave him during the Christmas holiday to move in with a new boyfriend. Had you read postings by Jay since December as I have, you would know this.

Addressing your charges of shallowness,immaturity,lonliness and excess baggage. Jay shows the maturity of not considering a situation in which he is uncomfortable. He appears to be addressing his lonliness, which was instigated by the deceptiveness of his former wifes infidelity. While Jay may be shallow to a degree, he is not as overly shallow as you appear to be. And while it is true that couples that divorce carry baggage with them from the failed relationship, many people carry "excess baggage" throughout their lives. Maybe you should try unpacking some of your own.

-- Dr Phillip (Dr, April 12, 2002.


Your ex wife? I think my ex wife finally got online :>) This thread is turning out to be better entertainment than daytime TV :>) I think I will take Dr Phillips advice on this one. Have a nice dinner and conversation and a full disclosure before the end of the evening

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (, April 12, 2002.

Since we're all doctors tonight, I'll throw in my 2 cents. Dr. Laura, "unconditional love"? They haven't had one date yet, get a grip. I raised 6 kids as a single mother starting when I was just 26. I know all about the feeling of rejection when a guy says he doesn't want to take on your kids, but I was a realist and would much rather hear the truth than to have a guy just try to get you in bed and THEN say he can't take on kids. Jay, cooking badly and having a dirty house will just make a motherly type want to take care of you. Just tell the lady the truth and enjoy a friendly evening. Jill

-- Jill (, April 13, 2002.


Thats my intention. I plan to have everything completely in order and neat. Everything in the fridge , partially cooked so it can be finished out after "13 Ghosts" and an evening of conversation when I can explain how I am. I'm not totally turned off by kids, its just my limit is one. I'm not effective with more than one preteen at a time. Plus I intend to remain unattached for a little longer.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (, April 13, 2002.

>>> "I'm not effective with more than one pre-teen at a time." <<< You are too funny Jay. I'm curious, what exactly does that mean.

-- Jodie in TX (, April 13, 2002.

Haveing been in the same situtation years ago, I found that older women whoms children were grown and gone was much more agreeable to me for companionship. The few times I tried to start relationships with a family group, I found that the kids either tried to get me to "buy" my way in with bribes, or condemmed me for replacing their dad. Either way, I did not have the resources or patience to walk that path so I chose to be alone and still am. Each step you take on the alone path is easier than the last one - just remember where you are going.

-- mitch hearn (, April 13, 2002.

Did anyone notice how the font changed? Who is this Dr. Laural CHICK anyway? She sure is full of advice and none of us know anything about her. Who does she think she is Dr. Love?

Anyway, Jay dear, what have we talked about in the past? Remember the one year deal? There is nothing wrong with dinner with an old friend who happens to have 3 kids. Good greif, your only having dinner no getting married! How do you know she is wanting to settle? And what makes you think you are the one she wants? No offense Jay but are you being a bit cocky here? Can't a woman who is single with kids want to catch up on old times without you geting your knickers in a twist? Sheeesh, she didn't ask you to propose did she?

Haven't you learned anything from this forum. We women arn't, contrary to popular belief, always looking to be taken care of! I think if you are going into this feeling the way you do call it off and don't call you her friend. Did you think she just needs another adult to talk to. Always being surrounded by your kids with no other adult communication can get pretty maddening. I know I invite people over, men and women, just because I need adult company.

You are making too many assumptions about this "friend" to be good company, cancel your dinner.


-- Susan in MN (, April 13, 2002.


My concerns came from the fact that after I had discovered about her family and situation, she said "I always wanted more for us, but you were always two steps ahead of me. Now we have our chance together". Later in the day was when she said she hoped to get into a settled down relationship with anyone as soon as possible to provide for her kids. Hence my cautions.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (, April 13, 2002.


I can effectivly rear and interact with one child. Two or more ovrwhelm me in bickering situations and such , resulting in stress related health problems for myself which affect the whole picture.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (, April 13, 2002.

In response to Dr. Phillip and others:

Frustration? You bet I'm frustrated! And I'm fed up with men AND women who "would like" to find a relationship and yet use CONDITIONS and LIMITATIONS THAT UNDERMINE their chances. They SABATOGE themselves when it comes to giving a relationship a FAIR chance. And THAT is precisely why they remain ALONE.

Jay uses the convenient excuse of the existence of children to scratch this woman off "the list". What a shame. He has preconceived ideas about what "acceptable" ages for children might be, and a LIMIT of ONE. I am NOT saying that children are the most important part of relationship, I am saying that to the woman in question, they are a VERY REAL PART OF THE PACKAGE, INSEPERABLE, NON-NEGOTIABLE. And yes, I DID accuse Jay of "playing a game", because rather than just call this woman and offer her his honest feelings BEFORE the dinner, he wanted to "play it off" by grossing her out with the dogs licking the dishes, and other sophomoric antics. HE WANTED TO AVOID TELLING HER WHATS IN HIS HEART!

And thats the REAL problem.

Either he can't be honest because he REALIZES how shallow and immature that "no kids rule" sounds (and is) or he wants to shift the "blame" for the relationship going nowhere on her. Sounds like a fear of failure.

No, I am NOT well acquainted with Jay's past history. (And I caution that we all be CAREFUL. Should anyone who reads what another posts in the "unreal cyber-world" and BELIEVE that it is the undisputed, irrefutable TRUTH, take heed. Sometimes we paint ourselves to be somehwtat other than we are. You and I do NOT have the ENTIRE truth. We have ONE side of "reality", be it real or perceived.) Dr. Phillip, you accused me of "defending" a divorcee with three children who is "tired of two years of divorced life". You stated that "it appears that the woman is approaching the situation deceptively by concealing the fact she has children until after the date has been scheduled."

I ask you, is it possible that she didn't THINK that having three children was a HIGH CRIME and something that HAD TO BE DISCLOSED before she made a dinner date? Were there other things she ought to have presented for a full disclosure as well before Jay should have accepted a dinner date?

Or should SHE have asked Jay things like "How much is your annual gross salary? I won't settle for less that 6 figures...if I have to work or if you can't take care of me in the style to which I would like to become accustomed to, well, then you're barking up the wrong tree...Hey, do you have any pre-existing health concerns that a nice gal like me might have to deal with down the line when you're old and gray, you know I WON'T be your nurse and I WON't change your Depends when you're 90! You get CANCER and I'm OUTA here!"

A tad melodramatic ? You bet. But if thats what it takes to make you look at yourself, then so be it.

See what I mean?

Relationships are about loving someone and respecting someone for what they are, not changing them. This lady deserves to know up front what she is dealing with.

Excess baggage, you bet. WE ALL carry it. And everyday, we ought to try our best to dump it out and deal with it, one piece at a time. Thats progress. I saw Jay's post as an opportunity for ALL OF US.

And I am suggesting that Jay, who has been up front about his "no kids" policy/fear take a long long look at it and see this for what it really is.

Its an excuse to prevent him from entering into a relationship that frightens him.

He's not ready and he's "not the one" and she deserves to know that.

In regards to Jay's past " history, again, we are privy to only one side of a complex story, aren't we? And that story is told to us by Jay, through Jay, and behind a comfortable cloak of anonymity.

Infidelities happen because a marriage has failed, they are NOT the only, or root cause of a failed relationship.

But THATS another show.

-- Dr. Laurel (, April 13, 2002. about a smorgasboard of answers already! Let me get this straight: she wants you to cook for her on her night off? Is this how it was she phrased it? And yes, a definet warning flag on this one....already setting the tone on how this "relationship/friendship" is going to proceed. Perhaps she's just used to "talking to children" and giving orders? i'm giving her the benefit of the doubt here, by adding the question mark. Generally cutting people slack in this way makes you end up with the short end of the stick. It IS important to listen to what is said and not what you want to hear. Many times a person will "give themselves away" by the very words they say. So listening is vital to what's coming. THEN when they expose themselves, later we all know you tend to put your best foot forward at the beginning of a relationship.....then you shouldn't be so surprised when the "real" person comes out. As you all can recall, when each relationship ends, we can look back and see where the warning signs were along the way, we just didn't want to see them, or kept hoping they'd change. It's called Hindsight. In this case, Jay is wise to use Foresight and avoid any future misunderstandings. The lady made her plans perfectly clear when she mentioned she's looking for someone to "take on her and her kids". Whether she meant Jay or someone else is Still a testament to her character. True?

Dr. Laura seems to have an anger or insecurity problem he/she needs to deal with. Sometimes those who yell the loudest, are the ones calling for help the most. Other times, they're just a pain in the arse.

-- Randi (, April 13, 2002.

To Dr. Laura's 2nd answer: it seems to me you're still in the "attack" mode. In "assuming" so much about Jay, perhaps you should address this from a more personal level....what's eating you!? You not only "assume" Jay's intentions or motives, but presume to demand that he live up to Your level as well. Geez!

Just because a person doesn't want an instant family doesn't mean they're some hideous monster. Not all children are as sweet as you claim you and your sister were. Some children today are very hard to deal with, plus you have the "step" factor in there and that's going to play into the picture as well. i.e. "Don't tell my kids what to do",..."you're not my dad, i don't have to mind you"...etc.

And the part about the dogs licking the dishes.....geez, Doc, get a grip....he was joking! In taking a long look at ourselves, as you suggest, may i suggest you put a mirror next to your own computer. Obviously you have some issues you're not dealing with, cause it's coming out all through your posts. i.e. the anger, etc.

-- Randi (, April 13, 2002.

Jay, cancel the date........ You haven't had dinner yet. Do yourself and her a favor.

-- Terran in VT (, April 13, 2002.

For Randi:

You make my point whether you realize it or not.(at least thats how Jay has painted her) This is woman who tells it like it least she is HONEST about where she is in her life. She is 2 years down the road from her divorce and perhaps light-years beyond the men she is dating (or hoping to date). And she is HONEST enough to realize (regrardless of how it may be taken or how many men it might leave fleeing in panic) that she AND the kids are a package deal, and she is ready. (Maybe she is, maybe she isn't.)

In regards to how the date was "arranged", Jay phrased it such that it sounded like "I want you to cook for me on my night off". Jay has never voiced a concern about the assertiveness in that. (Personally, I think Jay only heard the first three words that she said..."I want YOU" and he gets stuck there.)

Sounds like this gal isn't afraid to say whats on her mind or in her heart. She sounds like an HONEST woman in touch with where she is and what she wants and when she wants it and she's not afraid to ask for it. Some lucky man will have an easy time of knowing where he stands with such a lady at all times.

In regards to my being "in an attack mode/angry etc"...thats not what this is all about, Its not even about Jay . Its about the REASONS many of you find yourselves here at this point in your lives...SINGLE, many wondering why. Many embracing it, many living in terror of it. Many destined to repeat the painful process that caused it again and again.

I am NOT telling anyone to live up to "my standards", thats not the issue, don't lose the focus here by attacking the messenger.

I am simply asking that we ALL take a long hard look at OURSELVES, where we are, why we're here and how we got here and if we DON'T want to be here, how to avoid the same and new pitfalls that sabotage our future happiness with another person.

Do you honestly think that Jay didn't expect a little controversy by framing his post in such a way as to cause women to immediately get their feathers ruffled? Of course he did.

And in response to your comment ," Not all children are as sweet as you claim you and your sister were." You are mistaken, my two older sisters from my mothers first marriage did NOT include me. I came along later and my father managed to make us ALL his children and loved my two older sisters equally and UNCONDITIONALLY despite our differences. And yes, some children today are very hard to deal with, I'm not saying blended families are ever easy. But if two people truly love one another, THIS TOO CAN BE WORKED OUT! It takes work and committment and compromise, but if a relationship is worth it, it can be done.HOWEVER, you cannot go into another relationship HOLDING BACK a part of yourself or your effort. If you do,you are destined to fail again.

I'm just saying that THIS WOMAN DESERVES TO KNOW HOW JAY FEELS ABOUT HER CHILDREN EVEN BEFORE HE MEETS THEM because she deserves to know this about Jay.

Issues, you bet I got issues, we ALL got issues. But we need to be answering a few question for ourselves.


We are alone. There is a reason for this. Do we want to be? If not, what is standing in my way? Am I dealing with it? Am I standing between me and what I want, need? Am I my own worst enemy?

-- Dr. Laurel (, April 13, 2002.

Yes, she will find another lucky man , probably the same way she found her first , through me. I know I have to meet with her and set things totally straight because of our past. This girl was the best friend of my live - in and shared a house with us on and off for 5 years when we all first moved out on our own. We lived together, worked together and faced our futures together. Before my live in and I married, I introduced this girl to her future husband. Three months later we went our seperate ways. For 5 years the three of us had a family style situation with intimacy between my girl friend and I only. Then as now, this girl wondered how things would have been had I met her before meeting my first wife. She knew then I had only platonic attractions toward her and is now intent on seeing if there is more potential.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (, April 13, 2002.


GOD created man and all was good -- too good, as man was happier than HE. GOD saw his mistake and knew man needed some misery. HE took the "mean" bone from man and created woman. GOD has been happy since.

Stay happy!

-- Joe (, April 13, 2002.

I've seen a few that are "bad to the bone" :>)

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (, April 13, 2002.

Dr. L., So why are you here? Just curious? Since we are all being so honest! I know why I'm here and I also know why most of the other people are here.

Some of us know Jay outside this forum. You presume far too much! If you read other posts by Jay on this matter you will notice that he has health conditions to contend with. I agree with Randi that you sure seem to have an anger or repressed grudge towards men. Besides this is only a date, maybe. They are old friends who haven't seem each other in a long time. They are not falling in love, nor are they even close to talking about marriage. It is only a date!!! You sound very calculating to me Dr. L.

You say "don't lose focus by attacking the messanger", that is exactly what you have done from the get-go, you have been attacking Jay.

I guess the bottom line is that Jay is a big boy and we will all hear about the date including what wonderful meal he fixed including what his choice of homemade wine was.

-- Susan in MN (, April 13, 2002.

Apparently the poster has decided to help and heal all those that participate in this forum: I am simply asking that we ALL take a long hard look at OURSELVES, where we are, why we're here and how we got here and if we DON'T want to be here, how to avoid the same and new pitfalls that sabotage our future happiness with another person.

Sounds to me like someone that has just finished their first Psych 101 course and thinks that they have all the answers.

-- BC (, April 13, 2002.

That's exactly what I was thinking BC. And not only that, like a person who uses that tiny bit of education to go on the radio with a help the world show. You know, the kind where the listeners end up killing themselves. Jay, you've been divorced such a short time from what I gather and were hurt. You have every right and SHOULD be gun shy. Dr. Laurel is entertaining with all that pent up anger, but back to the real questions, like what's for dinner? Jill

-- Jill (, April 14, 2002.

This thread to be out in paperback next week!!

Dr. Laurel, If you will reset your font after posting the print will go back to normal, otherwise all that follows in this thread will be affected.

-- mitch hearn (, April 14, 2002.

Thanks to all. It has been a stressful three days for me but its all calming down a bit now. She's in my recliner, sleeping well for the first time in a week. Thanks to this forum, a close friend to babysit,six hours of discussion and my old teddy bear, I was able to give her 30 days and a bright future again, just like the old days. And best of all , I am still on a "stable rotate"

Dinner is postponed until after we get her and her kids to their new digs, then it will be a future celebration at her house. "Shreks Swamp" survives :>)

We decided dinner is going to be oriental. Beef & broccoli, General Tso's Chicken, Pork Fried Rice, Egg Foo Yung, chilled Kiwi and creme for dessert. A little rice wine and tea.

The next guy in her life better be of strong character. I think she is going to be drawing megaton strength from her ex husbands crap of the last six months. Folks like she and I never "forget the wrinkles in our guts".

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (, April 14, 2002.

Let me be the first to congratulate you on a job well done !! You cooked all that? You're amazing!! AND you sound like a great friend for any woman. Good luck. Jill

-- Jill (, April 14, 2002.

Oops! I should have said "you're GOING to cook all of that"

-- Jill (, April 14, 2002.

Jay , please don't exclude a woman because she has childen .It sounds like you 2 where very good fiends.Be honest that you are not looking for anything serious and that kids do scare you to death.Take it one day at a time , who knows you may find the love of you life and a family .Don't think of children as a burden but as a blessing {in the right situation}.It take a special man to love a woman and her children , you sound like a wonderfull guy and I know if the right woman walked into your life , kids or not you would do the right thing.

-- Patty Gamble (, April 14, 2002.


I am just being realistic these days. My first marriage was very good for both of us because we chose not to have chidren, opting instead to adopt a six or seven year old after our careers were established. Unfortunately, my wife passed away before we had the opportunity. I entered into my second marriage and had the opportunity with my stepson to bring a child into my life. It wasn't easy, it wasn't hard, it just "was". I did acceptably in that life, however, after they left and I introspected myself, I truthfully admitted to myself that I found life for me more pleasurable without children that require rearing. With this understanding of myself, I will restrict my romantic interests to women in my age bracket with children that are already or about to venture out on their own. Don't get me wrong, I have feelings for most everybody and will help anyone I can, however, I do not posess paternal insticts of any great degree. On the bright side, since parental instict appears to be genetic, there won't be another generation like me in my lineage :>)

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (, April 14, 2002.

Jay, I would just hate for you to miss out on a wonderfull woman because of children.And I hate to tell you being a Mom is a lifetime job and it doesn't end when they leave home.I guess you know you better than me , it just narrows the field down alot.And I always feel so sorry for old folks who have no family .I think of them spending holidays and most of there golden years alone.Maybe it's just me .,I truely hope you find someone to be happy FOREVER with.

-- Patty Gamble (, April 14, 2002.

No, but it is less stressful with an empty nest.:>)

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (, April 14, 2002.

Jay i thought you would atleast serve up your famous Stir Fryed worm dish!! LOL!!

-- Grizz workin near D.C. (, April 16, 2002.


I wouldnt serve worms, but I do have a recipe for Chinese Earthworm Broth. Its a homeopathic treatment for liver and blood ailments if I recall.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (, April 16, 2002.

Okay, so I'm not single (you all probably know that), but I have to read a little here once in awhile, just because!

Have fun, have a good dinner (I may have missed it - is it dinner for just the two of you, or will the kids be coming too?), and enjoy catching up on what's been happening. Show her your new garden!

Don't pass up on the chance to maybe make an old friend a new one too. I know you'll be upfront about not wanting a commitment, because it sounds like that's just the kind of man you are!! Good luck!

-- Christine in OK (, April 16, 2002.

As some of you know, from the other forums, I'm a 59 year old, married grandmother, who has been around awhile. I was married twice before, had two children with my first DH and stepchildren with the second. The second marriage lasted two years too long. Okay! This is my opinion! I think that Jay is very true to himself in that he doesn't want children around. Having said that, remember I raised two. When I met my my present DH of 23 years, he made it clear that he didn't want children of his own and I made it clear that there would be any. He also knew I had two to raise already. He was and is a fabulous step-father to my children and a wonderful grandpa. I think that Jay is a very wise person who knows his limits. I also think that a relationship is far easier without children. When I divorced my second DH, I made a vow never to marry a man who had children or one of those things called an ex-wife! Bye now and God bless. I'll stop back again if that's all right!

-- Ardie/WI (, April 19, 2002.

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