Latin Mass/Folk Mass/Music in the Churchgreenspun.com : LUSENET : Catholic : One Thread |
Hey Everyone:Would someone explain what a folk mass is? I assume it means music with a folk flavor?
What about Latin mass?
Hey Eugene, I saw on one of the sites that you said you play classic guitar. Do you play at church? My background is contemporary worship on guitar and piano, but I love classical too. Do some parishes still use classical music in their mass? My 20 year old son, who is a musician, would love a classical mass if I could find one.
For me, to use my skills in worship at mass would be the ultimate!
Oh, anyone out there ever been to a charismatic mass?
In Christ,
Gail
-- Gail Roth (rothfarms@socket.net), April 12, 2002
Before Vatican II, the Mass was celebrated in Latin in the Tridentine rite almost all over the world. The documents of Vatican II called for changes in the Mass, but also stated that Latin should be given pride of place. Also, Gregorian Chant should be retained. However, Pope Paul VI ended up instituting the Novus Ordo and permitted this to be said in the vernacular. There is still a Latin version of the Novus ORdo which is the official version. Any priest can say it without permission. The traditional Latin Mass is still said in various dioceses throughout the world, with permission of the local bishops. There are also many "independent" Catholic groups which have their own bishops (not under the Pope) which say the traditional Latin Mass. So called "folk Masses" came in during the 1960's, supposedly to make things more relevant for young folks. Most "folk Mass" music I've experienced is pretty poor. There's a good article on the subject of contemporary liturgical music in the January issue of Crisis Magazine.
-- Christina (introibo2000@yahoo.com), April 12, 2002.
Thanks Christina:When you say 'independent Catholic' churches not under the Pope, could you expound on that? I didn't know there was such a thing. I thought any church calling itself Catholic had to be related to the Roman Catholic Church?
Just to clarify, does 'saying the mass in Latin' mean they gave the homily in Latin as well?
Thanks
Gail
-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), April 12, 2002.
Gail, the traditional Latin Mass situation is a bit complicated...as I mentioned, there are certain dioceses which allow the Mass based on an "indult" granted by the Pope; I forget when this indult was granted. In 1989 or so, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre who continued to say the old Latin Mass after Vatican II and started his own order of priests to do the same, consecrated some bishops without the permission of the Vatican. He and these bishops were excommunicated. There are still many "Pius X" (named after his order, the Society of St Pius X) chapels around. Officially they accept the Pope as the head of the Church, but individual opinions of the Society's followers as to the legitimacy of this Pope vary. There are also other "independent Mass chapels" , many of which are run by "sedevacantists," people who believe that this Pope and all the POpes since Pius XII were not real popes. As I said, it gets very complicated. There is also the "Old Roman Catholic" church, which has valid orders, say the Latin Mass, but don't accept the Pope. I've heard they also "ordain" women (not valid, of course, as the matter, is not valid). And there are all sorts of offshoots of these splinter churches. Once again, there was another good article in Crisis magazine awhile back on these little offshoot traditional groups. As a rule, they are not under the Pope (some have their own "pope"). In the Latin Mass, the homily is given in vernacular (English in the U.S.) Although the readings are done in Latin, usually the priest will reread them aloud in English, too. I'll post some good websites in the next response.
-- Christina (introibo2000@yahoo.com), April 12, 2002.
Two good websites, loyal to the Pope, on the traditional Latin Mass: www.ecclesiadei.org (gives a schedule of Latin Masses) www.unavoce.org
-- Christina (introibo2000@yahoo.com), April 12, 2002.
I liked the "folk Mass" for the most part (music written mostly during the '60s and early 70's). I didn't see them as disrespectful, although I know the older people did. As to the quality of the music, it depends on who writes it, and how it is played. Big difference between a good guitarist and someone doing "boom chuck chuck" playing the same song, lol. I do like the traditional hymns (played on organs) as well.I don't care for what is usually called "contemporary Christian music" (the pop stuff on the Christian stations), mostly because you can't understand what they're singing right off the bat, as you can with folk music.
But then I like listening to Gregorian Chants also....
-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 13, 2002.
Christina, I just wanted to compliment you on your accurate and fair explanation of the situation involving Latin in the Mass, the schismatic "Catholic" churches, etc..
You packed a lot of information into just a few sentences. I think that I need writing lessons from you!
Welcome back, Gail. I think that it is so neat that you, as an inquirer into Catholicism, are investigating all these things.
John
-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), April 14, 2002.
Hi John, Christina, and everyone!Thanks for your responses. I am head-over-heels in love with the music at my parish and was just wondering how it differs from others. We have guitar and piano (which are my favorite instruments). I would love to add a violin and cello, then I would truly be in heaven (maybe a harp too). Anyway, God Speed to everyone.
One big thing I have noticed between Catholic mass and protestant services is that the mass is totally Christ and scripture centered, protestant churches are centered around who is on stage. I much prefer the mass!
Love you guys,
Gail
-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), April 14, 2002.
Hi Gail,Could you elaborate a little on "Protestant Church's are centered around who is on stage."
If I may, I'd like to give you a little info about a typical service in my church:
Prelude
Opening Sentence (this week, Psalm 42:1,4)
Greeting
Call To Worship
Hymn
Opening Prayer
Response (Gloria Patri)
First Reading
Childrens Story
Response
Welcome
Prayer of Confession
Second Reading
Hymn
Sermon
Offering
Offertory
Doxology
Prayer of Dedication
Pastoral and Congregational Prayers
Lord's Prayer (Our Father)
Hymn
Closing Prayer
Benediction
Response
On "stage" is the Pastor, to the left and right are the choir and organist.
Gail, I like coming here to this forum even though I am not catholic. I have been welcomed by many and treated with respect. I have learned so much from the good people of this forum. I don't usually make comments when people bring up Protestanism because it is usally done in good taste through examples and explanations. Gail, I am not "anti-catholic and/or a catholic basher", forgive me if I am wrong, but I took your comment as an insult. Hence my asking you to elaborate if you would.
In Christ,
-- Kathy (Curious@aol.com), April 14, 2002.
Hi Kathy:Let me explain a little more what I mean. I am coming from a Word-of- Faith/charismatic background where the band is stretched clear across the stage, with usually the band leader holding the microphone and singing AT the congregation. The service goes like this, 30 minutes of worship (which is usually very good) and then they take an offering, and then there is 30 to 45 minutes of preaching. That's it. Communion is done maybe two to three times a year.
So, you have the band taking center stage. By the way, the pastor lead worship as well, and had a very "thirsty delight" in being the center of attention ALWAYS. He lead worship, he made an album, he does the preaching. He is always centerstage. No one else was ever allowed to do anything that might divert attention away from him.
THEN after we left that church, we went to a church whose emphasis was holiness which was very appealing. However, to my chagrine, at this particular church the pastor hired his father to be co-minister, and then hired his brother to be music/youth minister so that his family was always 'on-stage'. In addition, his cousins, nephews, etc. all comprise the board of directors.
So since I had always been told that you never hear about Jesus at a Catholic mass, I was STUNNED to say the least at the very Christ- centered masses I have attended, especially IN LIGHT of my background. The contrast was stark.
Anyway, I gained a great deal from even the bad experiences I had at the other churches I mentioned, especially the holiness church I mentioned. This introduction to the doctrine of holiness lead me to the Catholic Church. I was just making an observation based on my own personal experience.
Hope no one took offense!
In Christ,
Gail
-- Gail Roth (rothfarms@socket.net), April 14, 2002.
Hi Gail,I do appreciate you taking the time to elaborate more. The problem is we are all guilty at one time or another of "categorizing".
God Bless,
-- Kathy (Curious@aol.com), April 14, 2002.
Can someone help find the sheet organ music for the traditional latin mass?e.g, Kyrie, santus, etc.....Much appreciated.
-- Paul (pkc28@msn.com), January 22, 2004.
Start here.
-- jake (j@k.e), January 22, 2004.
You have to use your "mind's ear" for this one, rendered in "tonetic":KyreeeEEAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion KyreeeEEAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion KyreeeEEAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion
ChristAAAaaaa__aaa___aaaAAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion ChristAAAaaaa__aaa___aaaAAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion ChristAAAaaaa__aaa___aaaAAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion
KyreeeEEAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion KyreeeEEAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion KyreeeEEAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion
Or, not...
Frank
-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), January 22, 2004.
You have to use your "mind's ear" for this one, rendered in "tonetic": KyreeeEEAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesionKyreeeEEAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion
KyreeeEEAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion
ChristAAAaaaa__aaa___aaaAAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion
ChristAAAaaaa__aaa___aaaAAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion
ChristAAAaaaa__aaa___aaaAAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion
KyreeeEEAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion
KyreeeEEAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion
KyreeeEEAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion
Or, not...
Frank
-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), January 22, 2004.
You have to use your "mind's ear" for this one, rendered in "tonetic":
KyreeeEEAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion
KyreeeEEAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion
KyreeeEEAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion
ChristAAAaaaa__aaa___aaaAAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion
ChristAAAaaaa__aaa___aaaAAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion
ChristAAAaaaa__aaa___aaaAAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion
KyreeeEEAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion
KyreeeEEAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion
KyreeeEEAA AAAaaaaAAAA AAAAA aa leesion
Or, not...
Frank
-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), January 22, 2004.