Forbidden fruit?vs Pate?

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I just finished watching Hannibal, (sequel to Silence of the Lambs). The tortured attraction between Clarise Starling and Hannibal Lecter brought to mind the forbidden and unrequited passion between Aeon and Trevor. Anyone else see this?

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo9@cs.com), April 09, 2002

Answers

The most revealing description of Hannibal's feelings for Clarise come from from his own words spoken to her, late in the movie. Hannibal to Clarise: "You'd deny me my life, wouldn't you?" Clarise to Hannibal: "No, not your life" Hannibal to Clarise: "My freedom, just that, you'd take that from me...and if you did, what then? Would they have you back, do you think? The F.B.I. Those people you despise almost as much as they despise you? Will they give you a medal Clarise? Do you think? Would you have it professionaly framed and hang it on your wall to look at and remind you of your courage and incorruptibility? All you would need for that Clarise...is a mirror."

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo9@cs.com), April 11, 2002.

Both men are cold hearted and elegant killers. Interactions between these couples are intricate maps of behavior revealing similiar outlooks on life between them. These are loners who play out life according to their own plan, even if it goes against the accepted norm. They come to admire one another and are forced to see they are not so different from one another. Hannibal is seductive to Clarice, just as Trevor is to Aeon. Their passions are unleashed and for the first time these misfits find an shocking match for their unusual persons. A tyrant for his would-be assassin. A sociopathic killer for his would-be jailer. It happens Aeon and Clarice both are engaged in a struggle of conscience over this love. Love has no conscience and takes control without permission granted.

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo9@cs.com), April 14, 2002.

Hannibal is set in Italy. In fact in the begining is a scene with a shot of pigeons collecting on cobblestones in a square. As the camera pulls away from the birds they form Hannibals face. They also seemed to later shape a broken heart. In an early scene in the movie Hannibal is speaking to an audience regarding Dante's Inferno, and the hellish tortures meeted out to the damned depicted in it. You begin to see his behavior as a more medieval view of the world. At one part of the film, with all the beautiful Italian operatic music and his flaring long brown overcoat he reminded me of Trevor. Trevor was one to make life and death decisions about other people, feeling he had a more qualified view as to what is right and wrong. Clarice and Aeon both are willing to die for what they believe, and are courageous enough not to sell out for personal gains. They are unsullied in these mens eyes because of this. Aeon would kill Trevor if she did not love him, that's the only reason he isn't dead by her hand. Her gun has fired easily before. Clarice was informed that she won the Guinness record for the female F.B.I. agent to have killed more than any other. As for the sexualness to the relationship, it was reminiscent of A.F. with it's sly use of suggestive behaviors. The implications went farther than a more blatant use of a camera. The audience had to read the scene and the unexpected relationship unfolding. You became part of it.

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo9@cs.com), April 15, 2002.

Sam those are good points, you made me consider them for a couple of days now. I'm not sure if I feel Clarice has fallen from Grace or she is loved as Beauty by a beast. In real life running off with a cannibal would be a poor idea, and likely to end in some real tragedy. Yet, if Hannibal continued to behave as a beast soothing to her charms I can't help but feel it is a very romantic notion and compares to the politically incorrect love of Trevor and Aeon with their strange configuration of mental hell as penance.

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo9@cs.com), April 17, 2002.

Logo; Hannibal is a gourmet cook and fine dining is always the best first date. You get to know one another between bites.

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo9@cs.com), April 18, 2002.


BTW Sam, I did read the book Hannibal. I guess I'm one of the few who feels it is even better than the movie, as regards to the ending. You see Hannibal lost his sister Misha to cannibalism by killers when they were just young siblings together. He had a lifelong plan; Starling was supposed to 'make way' for Misha to return to him, but in the last scenes Hannibal finds Starling to be appealing enough all on her own, and his nightmarish dreams about sweet Misha end ^..^

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo9@cs.com), May 06, 2002.

Getting philosophical here I know but what if no matter what terrible things a person does in life it doesn't put them in the class of evil? What if behavior, or 'acting out' is only a matter of reaction to a chemical makeup, or genetic malfunction or a psychodrama of the subconscious, a lack of love in infancy. How evil is Trevor? Or how good was he? How evil is Aeon? How good is Trevor. The idea 'we are both' seems to trivialize the problem. If we can't be one, how can we be both?

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo9@cs.com), May 06, 2002.

Course I'd hate to think all these beautiful questions are related to the fact that I got hit with an insufficient funds charge today...

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo9@cs.com), May 07, 2002.

I haven't read Silence of the Lambs, no, but I was so impressed by Harris's writing style in Hannibal I can't imagine he was too different in the other, which is really regarded to be the better of the two. I would love to know what Harris thinks of Aeon Flux.

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo9@cs.com), May 10, 2002.

They've been repeatedly playing 'lambs' for a week now on cable. I've watched it about 4 times, and I noticed something interesting about it. When the F.B.I. suspect Hannibal is hiding on the top of the elevator they send in a black agent to pull the trap door open to see if Hannibal's up there. When they think they've got Buffalo Bill cornered and are about to ambush him they send a black guy to pose as a floral delivery man and knock on Buffalo Bill's door first. Have you noticed?

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo9@cs.com), May 22, 2002.


The book Hannibal focused on Clarise's difficulty with the FBI having a glass ceiling for women. These references to prejudice could be laying groundwork for the sequel. I'm not sure I buy his image of the bureau. I've always admired them.

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo9@cs.com), May 24, 2002.

I haven't seen it, but the relationship always sounded interesting.

-- Mat Rebholz (matrebholz@yahoo.com), April 10, 2002.

Ive seen them, the first one is brilliant. Ive actually considered similarities between the 2 as well. What was it about the forbidden love premise in Hannibal that made you think of Aeon and Trevor? Do you think the 2 couples share attractions in similar ways?

I havent seen the prequel, Man Hunter though. Apparently the actor playing Lecter in it does a better job than Hopkins, can anyone comment on that.

-- Sam (Sqwee@hotmail.com), April 12, 2002.


Nobody's better than Sir Anthony Hopkins. Right now they are doing Red Dragon, with him as Hannibal again. Problem is it's before he met Jody Foster.

-- Mary (Marybrody@aol.com), April 14, 2002.

Do you honestly believe Aeon wants to kill Trevor? Remember, she chose to kill herself rather than Trevor in "Last Time." And are Trevor and Lecter really that similar. Trevor possess absolute power whereas Lecter commits murders in some pathetic grasp at real power. Lector lives at the fringe of society whereas Trevor is society. (Just out of curiosity, how sexual was the relationship between Lecter and Clarice in "Hannibal;" I never saw it).

Though if circumstances had been different, who's to say how each of them could have ended up.

-- Logo (Vosepherus@aol.com), April 14, 2002.



What you say here is kind of interesting.

"Clarice and Aeon both are willing to die for what they believe, and are courageous enough not to sell out for personal gains."

What exactly does Aeon believe? I don't think we ever really know the answer to that question. And whatever information we have that might lead to an answer suggests that there really isn't any way for her to sell out for personal gain. Her whole existence seems to be personal gain. I remeber a portion of the Herodotus file where Agent Euphemia has just met Aeon for the first time and is describing her to Trevor. He says she is "indifferent to consequences" and considers that "each moment exists in and of and for itself." She is uncontrollable because she has no agenda. Speaking of "Inferno," to me Aeon is uncorruptable in the same way that Satan as Satan is uncorruptable. They both embody a complete disregard for any intelligent concerns by nature of their pristine state of being. But whereas Satan's eternal nature is his source of power, it is Aeon's embracing of her transient nature that makes her so dangerous. She has no fear of death, and no concept of time, and lives from moment to moment for just that moment in which she happens to be. By limiting her life span to a series of insignificant, discontinuous moments she has made herself omnipotent. How can someone like that believe in anything that would concern us? How can you corrupt that which is already completely corrupt and lives only for itself?

-- Logo (Vosepherus@aol.com), April 15, 2002.


I havent read Hannibal or any of the other books, but apparently Clarise willingly runs off with Lecter and they become actual lovers.

Also, I think it fair to note that Clarise is actually afraid of Lecter, at times she is terrified. Aeon and Trevors connection bares more similarity to a typical teen romance, in that they actually flirt with one another, Aeon can treat Trevor like a boy toy and she does. Clarise actually has more respect for her love interest, but she is always intimidated. Clarise is built up as a vulnerable character and she is fully exposed as such when in the presence of Lecter. High levels of tension are always built on in Clarise and Lecters encounters, it plays an important role. Aeon and Trevors relationship is far more comfertable in that respect.

-- Sam (janecherrington@paradise.net.nz), April 16, 2002.


Heres something else interesting about the book barb, Clarise & Hannibal eat that guys brain together, or was it Hannibal feeds it to her...? In any case she eats some. I imagine it would pay to read the books in order to gain better insight into the world of Hannibal and Clarise. I might just do that myself, they're supposed to be good anyway.

I wonder what other fictional relationships ring similar to Aeon Trevors?

-- Sam (Sqwee@hotmail.com), April 17, 2002.


Christ that's disgusting! And isn't Clarice supposed to be an FBI agent? What could there possibly be about Hannibal that would not only entice her to forget his crimes, but cause her to join him in committing them?

-- Logo (Vosepherus@aol.com), April 17, 2002.

I think Clarise would be Trevor and Hannibal would be Aeon.

-- Kristine Rooks (krooks@agnesscott.edu), April 18, 2002.

Beautiful questions barb.

-- Logo (Vosepherus@aol.com), May 06, 2002.

Ahaha. You dead beat!

-- Logo (Vosepherus@aol.com), May 07, 2002.

Barb, have you read all of Thomas Harris's books in that series? I just started on Silence of the Lambs yesterday, great dialogue so far, I guess this read is rather overdue.

-- Sam (janecherrington@paradise.net.nz), May 07, 2002.

Well I just finished Silence of the Lambs, I'm impressed by Harris's writing style as well now. What a good read, I think ill try the other 2.

-- Sam (janecherrington@paradise.net.nz), May 21, 2002.

Ive read quite a few reviews for all 3 now and apparently Hannibal can not compare to the first 2.

-- Sam (janecherrington@paradise.net.nz), July 05, 2002.

I just saw Manhunter. Critics called it superior to lambs. Dennis Farina played Jack Crawford, ha ha. However, Brian Cox as Lecter is something else entirely, quite a different angle, genuinely disconcerting. This movie is pretty old; it shows in the action scenes, awesome otherwise.

-- Sam (janecherrington@paradise.net.nz), September 28, 2002.

MANHUNTER was a great fkn' film. Greg Ercolano introduced me to it when we were juiced outer art skull.

The "trilogy", in fact, is one of the only movie trilogies as such which has as its only consistent link that of the "written-by" credit: that is, where it's only the fkn' writer who holds the same thread throughout the franchise!

-- MM (artian@charter.net), September 29, 2002.


On dvd as an extra, Manhunter comes with an essay that tells you why it can be considered superior to Lambs. It sort of sounds like it has a lot to do with it having been based on a better book.

It will be interesting to see how "Red Dragon" turns out. Most people I've heard, pin RD off as being a better read than Lambs, and Hannibal as being pretty much an inferior read to both the two. I don't know if its been released yet anywhere else, but I suppose RD 'could' prove to follow in the fashion and be damn good. Actually, I'd better do research, I donít even know who's directing.

-- Sam (janecherrington@paradise.net.nz), September 30, 2002.


It'd be cool if anyone wants to come here and contribute their opinion to the Red Dragon vs Manhunter argument. Or of course, talk about either film as it is by itself.

-- Sam (janecherrington@paradise.net.nz), December 19, 2002.

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