What would happen if I pushed Superia 100/200 4-5 stops to a rating of ISO 1600?

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Hi Leicaphiles,

What would happen to the prints if I rated Superia 100/200 at 1600 ISO to push it about 4-5 stops? Based on previous reasoning, I would suspect that the grain would be substantially increased but how much? Would it be unacceptable grain size? The contrast would be increased and loss in shadow detail and increase in highlights would be evident. Would I get a poster effect in contrast? Just like some impressionistic drawing? For tonality, I would suspect a decreased range.

If I were to attempt shooting all of my photo project in this fashion, I guess that this would probably be more of an artistic/photojournalist experiment even if people disrecommend this approach for normal use. I would suspect based on very little prior experience rating Tri-X at 1600 speed that I would have a more avant-garde or eerie look with higher contrast and a good ability to handhold higher shutter speeds in lower light. Would there be a faintness that which show up into the negative prints (similar to the reciprocity failure)?

Thanks for your help.

Alfie

-- Alfie Wang (leica_phile@hotmail.com), April 09, 2002

Answers

i have had very bad luck pushing superia... i am under the impression that superia has a special color channel that is used to off set the orange cast you get from indoor lights, and that this cannot be pushed very well. I once pushed superia 2 stops, and wouldn't ever do it again nor recommend it.

-- Matthew Geddert (geddert@yahoo.com), April 09, 2002.

One word, Alfie: DISASTER..

-- Albert Knapp MD (albertknappmd@mac.com), April 09, 2002.

Alfie:

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

A 100 or 400 speed film is designated that way for a reason: balance between highlights and shadows. If a film is pushed, the highlits come up but the shadows do not.

Yes, you would indeed suffer image degradation. Avant garde is not where we want to place our efforts for "real" photography. If you want 1600 speed, used 1600 speed film: it is very good. It would be an experiment many of us have tried and abandoned. Save your money and buy 1600 speed film where it is appropriate.

Cheers

-- richard ilomaki (richardjx@hotmail.com), April 09, 2002.


The general changes you describe sound right, but you'll have to test the particular film to see how it will behave. If it's the speed you need, you'll probably get better results pushing a 400-speed film two stops (I've tested this with Kodak and Fuji 400-speed daylight-balanced slide films and do it regularly with Kodak's EPJ 320T tungsten film). The most I've pushed a slide film is three stops. EPJ is a rather grainy film to begin with, and the 3-stop push makes it extremely grainy with some color shifts and changes in saturation. Above a 2-stop push, DMax drops, and you get increasingly "smoky" blacks. The image below is slightly cropped from the full frame (EPJ at EI 2000; 3-stop push):

Here is a blown-up crop from the image which more-clearly shows the grain and funky colors.

-- Mike Dixon (mike@mikedixonphotography.com), April 09, 2002.


Richard, to my knowledge, there are no 1600-speed slide films. Those which are marketed as 1600 are actually low-contrast 400-speed emulsions which require a 2-stop push when exposed at 1600.

-- Mike Dixon (mike@mikedixonphotography.com), April 09, 2002.


Mike, nice photograph to prove your point! She's very pretty and I have to admit that its grain and odd coloring reminds of a girl from the 1930's German cabaret which is sweet looking.

I'm not big on modelling photography in general but this gal picture scores me a long way! :)

Happy snaps. Looks like I will try to stop Superia 400 2 stops and see what goes from there. Perhaps Provia 400 shot at 1600 would be better :)

-- Alfie Wang (leica_phile@hotmail.com), April 09, 2002.


And what about Fuji X-tra 800 pushed one stop?

-- Olivier Reichenbach (olreiche@videotron.ca), April 09, 2002.

provia 400f pushes very well to 1600... this is my standard high speed color film.

-- Matthew Geddert (geddert@yahoo.com), April 09, 2002.

Alfie, try Fuji superia 800 at 800 or 1600. The grain is very fine for this ISO.

-- Travis (teckyy@hotmail.com), April 10, 2002.

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