I posted this idea of mine almost 2 years ago so some of you will be familiar with it. At the time I was going to send it to the the then minister for sport Kate Hoey, who was proposing a safe return to terracing or an alternative proposal. Unfortunately Ms Hoey lost her job at about the same time so I never bothered, but kept my idea in cold storage.

The idea is a proposal for an all singing/seating area and I believe it solves the problem of allowing people to sit where they want when they want with people of the same ilk.

What I need advice on is who to send it to. I will send it to Freddie Shepherd but I need more people. Who do you think in the game would give serious consideration? Who is the current sports minister?

I might send it to Supermac on the three legends for starters so keep your ears peeled! In the meantime by all means have a read and see if its a worth while proposal. Maybe some of you did'nt see it last time so tell me what you think and who you think I should send it to.

Anyway this is what I said all those months ago....

I've had this idea rattling away in my head for a while, with regard to the issue of reinstalling terraces, incorporating 'singing' sections and allowing people the freedom to sit/stand where they want to each week at the match. Tell me what you think.

First of all.....forget bringing back the terraces. I was brought up on the old Gallowgate corner and loved it, but that was then and this is now. Terraces are ugly, pretty dangerous and belong in the past. What we need though is a system which recreates the best bits of what life on the terraces was like, ie.. 1)People being able to be with their mates in whatever part of the stand they like. 2)Being able to be next to like minded people, ie those who want to sing all the time. 3)Going to the ground early to get your cherished place in the stand and creating a pre-match atmosphere. 4) The choice to be in a different place in the stand each week. I believe football clubs could achieve these 4 things whilst keeping the all seater stadiums and forgeting about the terraces ever making a comeback. Here's how...taking NUFC as an example... First of all the club declares the whole of the Gallowgate end as a section to accomodate fans who wish to be extremely vocal throughout the whole match, ie those who start all of the singing and are generally vociferous no matter what the score might be. The very fact that the club are recognizing that these people exist would be a major factor. The Gallowgate end holds approximately 11000 seats and we could easily fill it with these kind of people. The second objective of this all new singing section is to allow people to sit where ever they wish to within it, and with their mates all sitting together too. This can be achieved by 'dividing' the whole of the stand into sections which can only be accessed by a particular turnstile. At present there are 3 tiers on the Gallowgate end. As an example lets split each tier into 4 sections. Each section is filled directly from a certain turnstile(s). When you arrive at the stadium you give your season ticket/match ticket stub to the turnstile operator and he gives you a ticket for a designated seat in the stand within the section which that turnstile controls. The system works on a first come first served basis and are distributed one after the other, ie if the section holds seat numbers 1 to 2000 then if you get seat no. 368 then the guy next in the queue will get no. 369. A digital display at the turnstile shows how many seats are available at that section so that if there are a whole bunch of you that are piling in at the same time, or if a dad is arriving with his 2 sons then he knows he will get seats together with his kids and the bunch of lads know they will be together too. All the while the turnstile operator knows exactly which seats are taken and which are available, and because you have given your ticket stub in exchange for a seat ticket number the club knows exactly who was sitting where at each match. This means that if you want to get your favourite position in the stand, with your mates, then you will have to get there as soon as possible. This will encourage 3 things in one fell swoop. 1) People will get to the stadium early, reducing traffic pile ups. 2) People will get in with their mates/family etc. 3) A pre match atmosphere will be brought back as the stand slowly fills up with people trying to get their favourite seat. And the club gets a stand full of supporters dedicated to supporting the team whatever the score, effectively recreating a Kop end as in days gone by but without the perils of the terracing. I think this would work if the club would be prepared to spend a bit of extra cash on the admin and technical costs.

Comments much appreciated. Cheers.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

Answers

APologoies for the formatting. Looks bloody terrible.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

Andy - a lot of good ideas there. IMO unless something positive is done to encourage those fans who want to sing by seating them near each other, the atmosphere won't improve. Like you, I would be very much against a retrograde return to terracing, and with the right moves I don't think that should be necessary.

A number of positive things have been done at OT to address this problem with the active support of the Club.

While you would undoubtedly be fighting The Dinosaurs at SJP, I still think that is the best approach, and it seems to me to be the sort of thing the Fans Liaison Committee might take on board.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

Didn't the OT scheme fail?

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

Didn't the OT scheme fail?

I think while it is a good idea, there would be a lot of fans who would probably like to just sit in the atmospheric sections, not really adding anything to the sound level.

The thing is, at times this season, I've seen virtually the whole stadium full of fans up on their feet chanting. I suppose a lot come into the category "sing if others around are singing as well"

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

That last post makes it seem like I'm against it, but I think the ideas there are on the whole pretty good and I'd be fully behind a scheme like that.

I think as you say, it would have to be limited to one stand, as there are a lot who wouldn't want to move seats and there could be yet another potential PR nightmare for the club.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

I think you'd need to do a preliminary survey on how popular your idea would be with the fans, Andy.

You'd need to find out what proportion of the crowd are miserable owld gits like me who are really apathetic about 'sing your heart oot for the lads'.

I don't doubt for a minute that I'm probably in a tiny minority, but my involvement with NUFC is sort of 'bottle half empty'. I'll show my appreciation during a game, when they give me something to appreciate, but when that doesn't happen. I'll seethe in relative silence.

Despite what's said by players and managers to the contrary, I find it hard to believe that screaming yourself hoarse for ninety minutes makes much difference to the outcome of a game. If they ain't good enough on the day, the crowd won't make them better.

I'm not even sure the club would want to bother there ar5es with something that will cost probably a fair wack with no extra bodies in the ground.

But, it's probably another of my cynical opinions that, in the view of a shrink, I'm silently screaming to have converted. Like I want to believe, but the signs aren't there. Blind faithlessness you might say.

But good luck anyway. I really don't have anything against the guys for whom total involvement means a lot, although, believe it or not, I reckon I'm as totally involved as any of the rest of you who do sing your hearts oot for the lads, just in a different way.

Not much practical help I know, apart from seeing the need for a survey before you put anything to the club - you couldn't really blame them when 'I think ......' doesn't generate nearly as much interest as '37,000 of us think.....' might.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

I'm in agreement in principle, but I think it would be impractical in the way you describe it. I believe one PL team already has a "free seeting" area (Leicester or Everton??) whereby you have a ticket for an area, but not a guaranteed seat. Therefore, if a bucnh of you and your mates want to sit together, the earlier yuo get there, the better the chance.

Now, one major problem with this is if over time, I was to sit in the same area, I'd sort of expect it to be mine, so when some big fat ugly bu99er comes along (OK, another big fat ugly bu99er) and sits there before me, I might feel a bit miffed. Even worse, if I sit in some other big fat ugly bu99er's seat, he's gonna do all he can to "persuade" me to sit elsewhere.

In reality, if you can overcome this objection, then I think it could work on a simpler basis. Split the are into smaller areas. That's the only place your ticket allows you access to. Then, make it a first-come-first-seated basis. No fancy displays to (i) confuse those who are easily confused (aka p!$$ed), (ii) act as targets for any missile which comes to hand and (iii) break down.

Otherwise, I'd go for it.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

......then, all you have to do is move 11,000 folks out of their seats. Hmmmmm, I can see that being no problem at all, based on previous experience :-(

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

Thanks for the replies chaps. Just in a quick response...

1) Clarky, is'nt Macbeth a member of the fans liason committee? And if not, how do I contact them? Do you think it's worth going to Freddie Shepherd direct?

2) Paul, a letter sent out to interested fans in joining this section would state CATEGORICALLY that onll those supporters who wish to be vocal throughout the WHOLE match should apply for the section. This would eliminate the possibility of people joining just to be next those who sing.

3) Bill, I was going to say that a lot of surveying of supporters would be required before this could be contemplated, therefore I'm going to get in touch with all of the fanzines and webzines to see if they can spread the word. Your right though, I agree that the club would take some pursuading to get this into motion.

4) Screach, this system would eliminate the problem you suggest of people getting arsey about wanting the same seat each week because your seat would be designated by the seat number given to you when you hand in your season ticket stub. It's highly unlikely, due to the numbers entering the stadium at the same time, that you would get the exact same seat as last time. That's not the point of the system anyway. It's to allow people to sit together and sing together but still be seating in a controlled fashion. Obviously stewarding would be required to make the whole process work effectively.

I reckon this can work very well, but the biggest obstacle will be the club themselves.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

Andy - macbeth is indeed on the FLC.

I'm not too sure who is the right person to write directly to at SJP. To be honest, Shepherd is the right person, however, experience has told me it is a waste of time - he never responds to anything. That at least is my personal experience.

You are far more likely to get a response from Russell Cushing, but I'm not convinced he would be prepared to take on an issue of this magnitude, with the potential downside.

On balance, I would suggest writing to Cushing and see where that gets you. You can always write to Shepherd later if you don't feel your getting anywhere. Wish I could be more helpful.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

I love the idea, but having met with the club on ticketing issues, and on things far less mundane than your suggestions I have to say 'not a hope'.

The club will take a long time to get over the SOS issue. They will shy away from moving people out of seats untilt hey are forced to. In their eyes they were doing the right thing in the SOS situation, offering nice seats to people in return for imporved future revenue for them. What you are suggesting is no increase in revenue, but some intangible, unproven increase in atmosphere, while moving a quarter (potentially) of the ground from their current seats.

There is no guarantee of improved atmosphere, just a gut feel that it is the best idea so far. This isn't enough for the club. They will feel that they are sure to get 3000 (say) fans who have sat in the same seat in the Gallowgate for nearly ten years turfed out to Tier 7 for no reason at all.

That is the huge concern they have, and while there are obvious benefits you have to minimise the bad press they (believe they) would receive from the forcibly relocated fans.

I have to say I think your idea its sounds great, but my last paragraph will the be the club line. To try and explain their mindset I have spoke to Russel Cushing about stating how many tickets we have for away games and he was unbelievably nervous about releasin gthat sort of information. Think about what you're up against !

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

Thanks for that Mac, and I tend to agree with you but perhaps you could put it in front of the committee anyway? And if we got in touch with the local press and asked them to do a survey of supporters then perhaps we could make the club listen a bit closer.

I reckon if every supporter at least KNEW about the idea we could move a step closer to actually making it happen, Just a thought like.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

We are still awaiting feedback on suggestions for ticketing we discussed in February regarding season ticket issues for this close season. I like you idea and will make sure it is put forward next season, but I know in my heart what the answer will be :0(

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

Fair enough Mac, but just out of interest..

1) How often does the FLC meet with the club? 2) Do you believe the FLC is taken seriously by the club?

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

We don't meet with the club enough. We started on a bad footing by one of the committee having a go at Russell Cushing before he'd sat down in the first meeting. That really put him on the defensive. We've worked hard at reassusring them that their paranoia is unfounded but it is a long haul.

We helped them a lot with some ticketing problems and they're now at the stage where they will actually phone us for views so we're getting there.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2002