After needing to keep Westminster Hall open all through the night last night, it appears they are going to have to do the same again tonight. The queue of people waiting to pass the coffin to pay their respects to the Queen Mum was up to 3 miles long today.

Seems the country isn't as full of cynics as some thought.

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2002

Answers

Bonnie Queen Mum's noo awa' Safely o'er the heavenly main Monny a heart is break in twa' She will no come back Again phoenix

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2002

Wow! Just goes to show how much she is loved, for whatever personal reasons people may have. It must be great comfort for the Queen.

I watched the procession last night(on tape as live coverage was in the middle of the night here). Very moving.

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2002

The point of this obviously anachronistic institution of Royalty, is that is is something that the entire nation can unite in support of, regardless of their politics. Obviously the same could not be said of a prime minister, against whom more than half the country have voted. The system is clearly unfair in favouring the single family for this honour, but the Queen Mother has borne her responsibilities extremely well judging by the support she has always enjoyed in the country. Given that the institution remains by the will of the people, all we can ask of the Royals is that they perform their functions well, and in this we have been served superbly, IMHO by the present Queen and by her late mother who was a star performer as evidenced by the scenes witnessed since her death last week.

Whilst I personally find the idea a bit strange, for so many people queuing for hours to pay their respects, or people travelling the length of the country to be at the funeral, etc, I am somehow strangely reassured that people do care enough to make some sort of gesture, and it is powerful evidence for the point I made in the first paragraph, about the unifying influence of monarchy. I doubt that this influence can be sustained indefinitely, but while it is there, it behoves us as a nation to support the individuals who perform those functions, even those who seek to replace the system with a fairer(?) one.

And when a person such as the Queen Mother has performed her role so splendidly (however easy that role might appear to be) she has clearly earned the respect, admiration and love of the majority of British people regardless of their race, religion or their politics. Personally, I find the whole think a little eccentric and yet also quite moving, and strangely reassuring. The Kingdom remains, as yet, United.

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2002

Other than this. I'm keeping shtum on this topic.

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2002

"The Kingdom remains, as yet, United."

The behaviour of two sectors of the celtic fringe in performing a minutes silence would call you statement into question Jonno.

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2002

The idea that these queues demonstrate a national outpouring of love and respect for the Monarchy and/or the Queen Mum is wide of the mark. I'm afraid the same principle applies as if you stood in the middle of a busy high street and looked up. Within five minutes there'd be a crowd around you doing the same thing, with no real idea what they were doing there.

I'm thinking of going tomorrow if the queues aren't too long. Not because I particularly want to doff my cap or pay my respects, but because there won't be many lying-in-states during my lifetime and I'm interested in the experience. In ticking a box. I'm sure the majority of people in those queues simply want to be part of A Thing. There's nothing wrong with that per se, but to use those queues as a barometer of the public mood is misguided.

On the news yesterday they spoke to someone - and apparently there were plenty more like him - who just went to queue for a bit and then go home. Stand there for a couple of hours, get a bit of atmosphere, bugger off. Go figure.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2002

Apparently ca. 120,000 people have already filed past the QM's coffin - a good many having queued for up to 7 hours. And yet we are asked to believe that many of these people are there for no good reason - almost as though they were stumbling through the open doors of Westminster Hall either by accident or even molecular transportation.

Why is it we find it so hard to believe that these people are positively motivated? Could it possibly be that the simple reality of the situation staring us in the face doesn't accord with the current chic of the trendy-wendys?

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2002

Apparently 10% of the population believe in God.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2002

Softie .... I simply don't understand the need to question the motivation of people who are prepared to queue for for 7 hours to pay their respects to someone they clearly admired/liked - except that it isn't a neat fit with present received wisdom.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2002

Clarky - I'm not dismissing the motives of everyone queueing, just suggesting that for many people the motive may be slightly more amorphous. As I said above, I think a lot of people just want to be part of A National Event and I also think, at the most basic level, there's a kind of excitement at being able to file through Westminster Hall and say to yourself, "cor, she's actually in that box, right now".

I'm very confident that if there were just books of condolence at the front of the queue and no lying in state, those queues would be much shorter. Once again, I mean none of this in a pejorative sense - as I said above, I'm still thinking of going tomorrow night myself, for exactly that 'experience' reason.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2002

I think you may be presented with a slightly different perspective when 500k+ turn out to pay their respects to YBR. More people go to the three football matches in the North East than have filed past the coffin and our crowd alone in single file would stretch an awful lot further than 3 miles. How many trophies have this lot won? (If you tell me that a football match is more interesting than looking at a coffin then I have a number of games I would like to bring to your attention ;-))

These figures are pretty paltry. If the whole of London had turned out it would be about 5mil wouldn't it? It seems that 95% of people in the immediate vicinity haven't felt the need to show up. I'll bet they are there tomorrow lining the route, but these 140,000 aren't the tip of some iceberg, they are all the extreme cases.

Frankly I was more amazed by the number of us who turned out to welcome the lads back from Wembley after such disgraceful displays. She was a national figure and had less draw than some provincial team of losers.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

The monarchy as a uniting force? Hardly - have you forgotton the previous threads on the subject already? Lots of people got very heated and mostly we all quite like each other... Regardless of how good or bad a job the QM did, I personally don`t fee like I could ever rally around such a ludicrous institution. The Scots don`t seem too enthused either.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

London is home to some 8 million, Softie.

I was in London this weekend and the local news show interviewed the first in the queue to view the lying in state. To be honest, it struck me much as Dan suggests that he was there for the experience of being part of a national event more than as some personal pilgrimage to mourn a death. Guess there's nothing wrong in that under the auspices of 'paying last respects'.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

Bobby - do you think that the contra-explanations could possibly be a rationalisation that makes the anti-monarchists feel more comfortable?

BTW, it may come as a surprise, but I'm far from being a raving monarchist. However, I'm fed up to the back teeth with the cynicism and mean-spiritedness that is prevalent in this country, and imo doing it great damage. I realise that many regard this as an national ability to 'remain objective' but what I see is unhealthy, even destructive, cynicism.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

It could be that. But I don't believe that people can genuinely become upset and mourn the death of someone they never met (or at best once shook their hand). Marking respect by attending the lying in state is fair enough. What has already been said on this thread is true, in that to believe some 250,000 will walk past the coffin and another 500k line the route to the funeral must reflect a national outpouring of emotion is mistaken. Each will have their own reasons for turning out, some even anti-monarchist but who believe the Queen Mother was a decent person.

I went to the VE celebrations at Buck House and Hyde Park a few years back and the majority were there for a good day out. You could have argued then that it was a national symbol of patriotism and loyalty for our armed forces. Personally, I was there for a day out. Even my father-in-law who was in the liberation of Norway couldn't be arsed to get down to London (he ended up at his local where old pennies could be exchanged for pints - he was bladdered by 7pm). I know the QM thing is different, but it has similarities. I even went to Buck House to see the Queen wave (only saw a turquoise blob from a distance).

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

Bobby - I haven't suggested that this "reflects a national outpouring of emotion", only symptomatic of a nation wanting to pay it's respects to the QM - something the anti-monarchists seem to find untenable.

What I have argued against is that this is nothing more than a lot of people queuing - for up to 7 hours(!!) - as though they were getting into a theme park free of charge. This is clearly nonsense.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

This discussion will return in June when any street parties will be either a 'spontaneous' outpouring of love for the Queen, or any excuse for a piss-up.

Two smiles from the weekend.

One was Richard Johnson, the jockey, coming second in the National when he should have won. He is Zara Phillips fiance, can you imagine the "he wins it for the QM" spin there would have been ?

The second was someone asked why no one had evern heard the QM speak. The person questioned said it added to the aura of her that nobody knew her. What ? Maybe the story should be rerun has the "Empresses new clothes"

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

It's a bottle half full, bottle half empty situation Clarky. Is the country the way it is because we are mean spirited, or are we mean spirited because of the way the country is ?

I incline to the meanspiritedness-permeates-downwards POV

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

7 hours queueing to see a box containing an extaordinarily privileged mute who'd basked in glory for over 50 years on a couple of visits to eastend bomb sites...seems the mackems haven't got the monopoly on 'sad'. It's always tragic when someone dies, but for chrissakes she was 101, she'd never done a day's work in her long, cushy life and she went peacefully in her sleep after decades of the best medical care her loyal subject's taxes could buy. The whole thing stinks, she didn't know any of those morbid saddo's who queued for hours to see her coffin and they didn't know her. There simply MUST be better ways to spend 7 hours on a weekend.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

Clarky - some Republicans might find the idea of several thousands wanting to pay their respects to an old woman a bit daft, but I don't mind myself. At least they're showing more dignity than over Diana's death. I also don't think that even the ones who are going along to be 'part of something' think it's entertaining in the same way as a theme park or the like. But it is still an 'I was there when - ' experience, which is fine too.

Last I heard it was nearing a 12hour wait! My cynical mind asks if half as many would have stayed on if had been raining? :-)

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

Do we really think the Queen doesn't do any work? Bit rich coming from us whilst we chat on the internet at work ;-)The Queen Mother was Queen and although she has greatly reduced her duties, for a lady of her age she probably did a lot more than most. It might seem a cushy number, but endless rounds of formal occasions during the day and evening surrounded by sycophantic idiots would fill me with horror. How many of us would seriously want the life of a member of the Royal family - not just for a trial period, but for ever? I'll probably be killed by the stampede now ;-)

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

Exactly, Pete. And I do agree that there are likely people lining up to say they were there(look at how many people have to stop to view a car crash and hold up traffic for the rest of us who are more interested in getting on with our lives!), or who view it more as an historical occasion. But I think there are very few people who would endure a 6hr plus line just for jollies. No matter the weather, it's just not a fun thing to do, particularly when there's no 'reward' at the end of the wait. The fact that so many people are enduring the wait, imo, shows some kind of respect for the person/institution/history.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

Why criticise the people that are queueing such a long time. They have their reasons whether it is genuine respect or just the feeling of wanting to mark history. If you don't want to do it, don't ! but don't judge people that do or try to guess at their motives.

Are people just a little bit worried that we may not be as anti-royal as they'd like us to be ??

Why this animosity over how other people choose to react to a person they may not have known but they may feel has been part of their nationality's identity ?

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

...just voicing my opinion. Isn't that what this BB is all about? Or should we all agree that she was a magnificent hard-working national icon.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

That's my point ! everyone is entitled to their opinions and if people are motivated to stand for 12 hours they must want to quite badly for whatever reason.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

I'm not knocking their right to squander hours in a queue, I'm just calling them sad for doing it, and it's MY right to do so.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

Sorry Kats, but some people are not entitled to an opinion. Westlife fans, for instance. Or those dim girls who waited for 'Broccoli' Spears to walk straight past them last week. And that twatful art critic who fancies himself and his daft pronounciations.

I also think it is reasonable to guess at the motives of people who are making such an effort to walk past a coffin. It's not a normal thing to do. And there is a reward at the end of it all, the ability to say smugly 'I was there' (ok, bit harsh that one but you get the idea).

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

That explains it , I quite like Westlife ;-)

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

just trying to defuse the tension, of course I'm far too old to like Westlife !!

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

Ah, you must be a 'Blue' fan then :-)

The only way to resolve this is to ask every person who is, has been, and will be going along to see the lying in state their views. Of course, to make it properly scientific interviews have to be anonymous and in private (can you imagine anyone saying 'yeah, I'm just hear for the day out' with ardent Gawd-Bless-Ers surrounding you!).

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

Don't get me started on bloody boy bands, I positively adore the Royal family compared to boy bands. Pop Idols, Westlife, Five, New Kids on the block....pass me the napalm, I love the smell of burning boy bands in the morning.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

"Suckers of Satan's c*ck, each and every one of them. That's not dancing, it's that old black-worm jism eating through their stomach linings."

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

I can see it now, mark my words. DSS and Bobby starting up a band together in the Westlife mould. Hmm, what about a name? The Royals is quite catchy. Off the shelf ComputaDitty, image makeover and a bit of electronics on the vocals. It would the just be a case of waiting whilst the queues of misguided (preferable female) fans start growing ;-)

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

Northeastlife? Magzone? Toon That? Grey Street Boys?

And what do you mean 'image makeover' - trying to say I need it?!?!? If I wasn't in my best Tommy Hilfiger tracksuit, puka gold jewellery and Adidas trainers I'd be getting me crew together and get me evil on ya! Tch...

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

...or a Dead Kennedys tribute band; The Wasted Windsors.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2002

"The guy behind me" at the end of the minutes silence/national anthem said "she's gonna be 103 by the time they bloddy bury her"

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

So, your conscience didn't have anything more charitable to add then macbeth. Pity.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

The bloke had a point....this nonsense has been going on for a week and a half now. I'd already done my minute's silence at Villa Park but could understand why we had another last night, if however I have to stand through another one at Pride Park on Saturday (I don't think they've had a home fixture since the nation's favourite passed away) I may be tempted to start whistling zippety-doo-da - in a sombre, dignified style naturally. I think it's what she would have wanted. She was 101 you know. Marvellous.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

okay the 8:45 GNER from KX to Aberdeen was 50 minutes late getting to Inverkeithing this morning, having lost 45 minutes between Newcastle and Edinburgh.

The train arrived at Inverkeithing at about 11:30 and they announced they weren't going to pull away until a minute's silence had been taken.

The comment at the match caused mirth all around.

When will we have to stop being respectful ?

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

Sorry mac - I was only pulling your plonker. I really should have added a ;o{) but forgot.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

oh no I'm turning into Clarky !!!!!!!!11

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

" When will we have to stop being respectful" Did you start?

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

Back in the knife drawer, Mr Sharp ;-)

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

Anyone seen an olive branch lying about? Some comedian appears to have shot my dove! :o{)

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

Okay I wasn't respectful but I wasn't disrespectful for a few days.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

There are a LOT of people who are only queuing so they can say they were there - not for genuine mourning. The number of people I've heard saying "it's part of history, I want to be involved" is very large.

I do believe there are quite a few who have connected with her and related to her in some way (not relate in the family sense) and mourn.

But turning up just to be part of history is more often than not just an excuse to stay off work by the looks of things. Employers won't want to seem too disrespctful by denying workers a day off to stand in a line and walk slowly past a dead body.

Reading thorough this post again it might seem as if I am dead against the idea of people paying their respects to the QM, but I am not. I reckon people should be allowed to pay their respects if they want to and many have, but some who turned up crying, such as 10 year old girls who obviously didn't know her simply puzzled me. I felt sorry for the QM's family as they had to cope with the death of a relative, but I couldn't mourn. I didn't know the QM, I've never met her and never really took an interest in her before.

Not wishing to spark controversy, but did anyone notice that Charles looked more distraught at the QM's death than he did for his wife?

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

That's because he loved his grandmother.

With regard to why people get upset when "mourning" someone they didn't know, I find on such occasions I get upset thinking about the people I DID know. I can certainly empathise with the Queen at the moment.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2002

Ex-wife, Paul :-)

Have to say, I saw a little bit of the parade with the massed pipers and it was bloody impressive. The sound was incredible and the scene was of military precision and dignity. Whatever my opinions, it was a hell of a show

I plan to have a similar burial procession...maybe not so many men in skirts, mind.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2002

My view on the royals won't change but seeing Chas in such a state yesterday was touching indeed. I just wish the whole thing wasn't such a bloody circus and the family could grieve with a bit more privacy.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2002

Dave ... it comes with the so-called "privilege" that so many in this country begrudge.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2002

Just to prove my point (!) I went yesterday. Tell ya, those nobheads queueing up in the middle of town from 7am just to stand five rows back...I meanwhile had a gentle stroll up to the Hogarth roundabout in Chiswick, got there half an hour before the cortege went past, no pushing, no shoving, thar she blows, three yards in front of me, ta'ra ma'am, off for me bait, bish bash bosh.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2002

True, and my gut feeling is if Chas did ever make it to the throne he's declare 'game over' on the whole thing. I quite like the bloke anyway but he'd be an absolute superstar if he had the balls to transform the British constitution into something that sits a bit more comfortably with how the rest of the free world does things in the Twenty First century.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2002

Was there plenty of agro in the lines waiting for the procession then, Dan? At the VE Day celebrations at Buck House there was a tosser with family who objected loudly to anyone disturbing his perfect view: "move along, please, some of us have been waiting here all day". Twat.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2002

The Queen has a great sense of duty, lets say this drives her to never give up on her duty to reign until she dies. She should have a similar life expectancy to her mum, so there's another 25 years of her to come. By this time Charles will be about 78 (and William 44). Can't see Charles having much energy to do anything at that age.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2002

It was interesting to see how many other monarchs and their spouses turned up from "the rest of the free world" at yesterday's do. Seems we're not the only 21st century country with a "crown" at the top of it.

The difference, of course, is that in just about every other European country there is a "written" constitution. The role of the monarch is very clearly identified. We don't have and never have had a "written" constitution in Britain. We just sort of make it up as we go along. Consequently, no one is very clear about the role of the monarch - people just have some vague idea that it is a good or a bad thing. Perhaps the first job Chas could do upon becoming King is to clarify all of this so that people know what they are talking about when they refer to the position or role of the monarchy.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2002

We have an uncodified constitution, based on precedent. There are plenty of stateless monarchs floating about too, such as Uncle Phil's Greek mob - nazi sympathisers who got booted out.

Charlie will be an old man before he gets to have a say on anything, which is why he's such a loudmouth now (as is the wont of the PoW). Mind, I really can't see him taking the plunge and asking the PM to create a republic...although I want a republic, there's more important business on the political agenda to get worked up about. And can you imagine the bias of the Gawd Bless 'Er papers? The Mail and Sun would have a fit of apoplexy!

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2002

Yeah Bobby, imagine if all the Daily Mail and Sun readers emigrated in disgust...what a loss to the country that would be. Wonder where they'd all go? I've heard Israel is nice at the moment.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2002

Nah, Chechnya is far better this time of year...especially if you're involved in telecommunications...the c**ts

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2002