A continuation for Charles

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Charles: You say "But when we seek to approach God (that God revealed in the Bible and spriritually) via this method we worship our own talent, we adulate ourselves."

I think you still don't get what I'm trying to say Charles. I've contended for a long time that correct interpretation is key to a fuller understanding and that is a VERY individual thing. You or I read the bible and while we MAY "get" approximately the same thing from this or that verse, there's a pretty good chance we won't in other verses. Thats just the way of things. Is our relationship with Christ jepordized as a result of our innocent but incomplete or inaccurate understanding? I doubt it. You can hardly deny in good faith the truth of that statement because it is self evident. Every Christian denomination is obvious support of it because they each exist as a result of a different interpretation of the same source---the bible. Like it or not, you, me and everyone else will inderstand things in the way we are capable of understanding them without any being able to realistically claim infallibility for their interpretation or understanding. I attempt to support my beliefs with reason, not "faith" in an intellectually flawed and often myopic dogma.

What we share in common is the mutual quest for a better understanding. Do you not use reason to enable you to go deeper in your own understanding? Surely you must because to do otherwise is to take the entire bible literally thruout, despite an abundance of evidence that suggests the bible is in fact, in places at least, a metaphor or allegory. One of Jesus own favorite teaching techniques was the use of parables. To take a parable strictly literally would be to severely limit it usefulness to our daily lives wouldn't you agree?

I'm well aware of the deficiencies of reason when it comes to the experiential component of faith and believe me when I say that. It ain't nowhere close to the same thing. On the other hand tho I know of nowhere in the bible that the use of reason is discouraged or prohibited. Its all in the balance IMO. Reason does not replace faith but it can enhance it and give it more intellectual substance. Without that, the component of faith that relates to belief system, faith becomes just another word for superstition.

The relationship you and I have with Jesus is a personal experience. It is often not the same from one person to another tho the fruits that will be eventually be born will be very similar. Each person, when they come to Christ "as they are" come with the baggage of a lifetime.

"Its really just ego trying to subject God to our own reason - Satan's problem. Its just a pride-centered intelletual ziggurat of an individual design."

As I mentioned in the original thread, during a self awakening in the Christian tradition God told me directly that "Satan is the fear of love". I understand you may find that hard to believe. So do I sometimes but the fact remains it happened. In spite of its plain wording even that leaves alot of room for speculation and analysis. I've spent the better part of my adult life examining that statement, thru meditation and study. The conclusions I've arrived at have led me to many of the beliefs I currently hold.

"Jesus thanked his Father that knowlege of Him was not to be achived through human intellect but through what would seem foolishness to those who could not open hearts to God."

Once again I acknowledge that reason alone will not "get you there", but it can be and is a tool to aid in that endeavor. Each approach to God has its strengths as well as it weaknesses and each approach will bear spiritual fruits of a kind while not bearing fruit of another kind.

"I don't pretend to know John except through the internet and I don't mean this as a caricature. Plus he has got a "beautiful mind" God- given. The opposite of personal atagonism is intended. We can't get to God, he came to us already through his Son. Receive the Son, receive the Father."

I'll continue to contend the CHRISTOS is the son and readily acknowledge that Jesus was an elder brother in the family of man. That would make you and me and Little Bit and everyone else younger siblings of Jesus. I don't understand where the problem is and why that is so hard to understand.



-- john (natlivent@pcpros.net), April 05, 2002


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