This Forum - some musings

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Leica Photography : One Thread

I've spent a lot of time reading the postings - questions and responses of this forum, and frankly enjoy most of the peripheral and off-topic issues. I recently inquired about the 15mm voigt. Heliar and was gratified by the responses.

It appears, however, that some will not tolerate anything but the most narrow focus on the nuts and bolts aspects of mechanics or optics. I think that is a shame. I think that Leica photography should be seen as more than the sum of its parts - it would be nice to have a greater exchange of ideas and observations concerning the relationship of the tools to personal or artistic goals and challanges; how the equipment may be utilized to promote a certain approach, or enhance a perticular way of seeing.

A little more tolerance and a little less "one-up-manship" may be helpful. I'm tempted to wonder, if a photographer's character and graciousness of spirit may, in the main, be inverse to the cost or pedigree of his equipment?

-- Art Waldschmidt (afwaldschmidt@yahoo.com), April 01, 2002

Answers

Well said, Art. I couldn't agree more.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), April 01, 2002.

I concur. What is really sad is when someone objects to a subject of the post, and then attempts to drag it through the mud with their own strange rantings. See below about the person objecting to the post about places, and going on about lithium or some strange tangent. Sheesh...

-- James (snodoggydogg@hotmail.com), April 01, 2002.

I agree, Art. For me, the term "Leica Photography" has very little to do with the Leica products themselves, but more with how the camera is used, regardless of brand. For me it's that very intimate "slice of life" photo...the in-close, on-the-street reportage.

If I see a shot like this, I always think, Leica, even if it was made with a Contax, Nikon, or a point and shoot.

-- Jim Tardio (jimtardio@earthlink.net), April 01, 2002.


Art. You make some good points. But the other side of that coin is that there are some posters who criticize the discussion of optics, mechanics, equipment, and Leica collectibles with equal vehement and contempt. These people think this website should be confined to a discussion of images, not Leica products. This forum is hosted by the Leica Historical Society of America, so Leicas and their history are a major subject of interest. That includes CV products and in general Leica thread lenses/cameras from other manufacturers. Most people have no problem with that.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), April 01, 2002.

For me the concept of "Leica Photography" carries with it a definite expectation of "excellence," not just in the equipment, but in the images and level of discussion. Somehow posts like, "Critique my baby pictures," and "What do you think of Hasselblad," and "The Places I Like to Go (On My Summer Vacation)," seem to me inappropiate to this forum. How about the "My first pictures with my new M6" posts? Great! I'm glad you're out there making pictures, but why don't you come back and show what you can do after 4 or 5 years of practice. If they're good, I'll enjoy seeing them (if you still need critique put them on photo.net). I expect a high degree of excellence on a Leica Forum -- don't insult me with amateurish crap!

-- Willhimn (wmitch3400@hotmail.com), April 01, 2002.


"Leica"....."photography".....two words and any topic relating at least one word or a combination of the two are forum worthy. Besides, equipment talk and photography talk by themselves does get a little boring at times.

A little differnece of opinion here and there is healthy as long as it doesn't get insulting. I mean I visit this foum for a differnce of opinion and if I am to criticise someone for that reason I am only mocking myself.

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), April 01, 2002.


I have in my possession a beautiful "baby picture" of myself in my mother's arms. The negative came from my father's Argus, but remarkably, the beautiful print was made by one of the most gifted european artist-photographers of that period - Albert Rudomine. My father met Rudomine during the war and they became close friends. My father was an amateur. If Rudomine - a true "master" - had been self-important, imperious, or disdaining, it is possible, likely, that much would have been different for me, and I may never have discovered photography to be the wonderful vehicle of personal expression that I have drawn upon for over thirty years.

-- Art Waldschmidt (afwaldschmidt@yahoo.com), April 01, 2002.

I'm tempted to wonder, if a photographer's character and graciousness of spirit may, in the main, be inverse to the cost or pedigree of his equipment?

I don't think that's the case. You get all kinds (and all kinds of moods) among any group. Actually, it's been my experience that most "Leica snobs" at least have a sense of humor about their obsession, whereas the "anti-Leica snobs" tend to be much more self-righteous.

-- Mike Dixon (mike@mikedixonphotography.com), April 01, 2002.


My exact underlying thought Mike!!

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), April 01, 2002.

Alas! - it seems it may be necessary to clarify my intention when I wrote the last line: "I'm tempted to wonder..... (in my original post) - it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but with some possible applicability in those "where-the-shoe-fits" instances. Also, I'm not advocating the dilution of the Leicacentricism of this forum - far be it! - THAT'S WHAT ITS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT!!!

Regards!,

-- Art Waldschmidt (afwaldschmidt@yahoo.com), April 01, 2002.



Opinions are like anal cavities, everybody has one?

-- Glenn Travis (leicaddict@hotmail.com), April 01, 2002.

Actually, we all are born with one A. Over time some lose theirs to disease, so unfortunately, these people have none. Equally unfortunate, an equivalent or more people sprout another one - located above the neck 8*)

-- chris chen (chrischen@msn.com), April 01, 2002.

Wilhelmn,

Is this an exclusive club for people with several years' experience with their Leicas? I don't think so...what the heck would they need this forum for then? Any photo forum would suffice then for critiquing photos. Now new-to-Leica photogs could use advice on Leica technique to maximize their images. That is why you would get someone asking for critiques. So in the future Wilhelmn, please don't answer any posts requesting critiques on photos from newer-to- Leica photogs, and we'll all be happy Herr Wilhelmn.

James

-- James (snodoggydogg@hotmail.com), April 01, 2002.


James, You are so right!!! And why does it seem that some folks must have recourse to the LEAST tactful/considerate means for articulating a criticism to feel fulfilled?

-- Art Waldschmidt (afwaldschmidt@yahoo.com), April 01, 2002.

You want criticism? If ask for it, I shall endeaver to comply with both barrels. I don't believe in the dictums that "there's no such thing as bad art," or that every student should be given a passing grade so their feelings won't be hurt. More is to be learned from one piece of honest, informed harsh criticism than a hundred "ain't that purdy, I like it" responses.

-- Willhelmn (wmitch3400@hotmail.com), April 01, 2002.


Willhelmn, In spirit I totally agree with you!! Things have gotten so relativistic that people are often afraid to voice a legitimate ,unequivocal, opinion. But don't you think it is preferable to be as constructive as possible in offering criticisms, rather than opting for the means of maximum hurt?

-- Art Waldschmidt (afwaldschmidt@yahoo.com), April 01, 2002.

Wilhemn...funny you should mention both barrels...I have a couple of those too. Anyway, you're really going off into never never land with your tangents.

-- James (snodoggydogg@hotmail.com), April 01, 2002.

Let me weigh in my two cents here. I think the reason Chris has engendered so much hostility (and this is the reason, you and Kristian have started threads about the atititude of the readers of this board, correct?) is that in the past week or so he has started a large number of threads -- some on topic, some very much off topic. After awhile, it seemed like he was posting every little thing that came to mind, unfiltered. Every few months you see this happen on this board. Someone starts a large number of threads and people get angry (for example, Alfie's inane posts a few months back).

-- Richard (rvle@yahoo.com), April 01, 2002.

WILL

You offer a point of view,me i think it is narrow minded.However, i welcome your comments...try to use wit.instead of crude insults.You will still get to the same place...we will enjoy more,you will.Regards Allen.

-- Allen Herbert (allen1@btinternet.com), April 01, 2002.


Elliot wrote, "This forum is hosted by the Leica Historical Society of America, so Leicas and their history are a major subject of interest."

Not actually true. We are linked from the LHSA links page, but we're only hosted by Philip Greenspun's LUSENET bulletin board system. The forum was created by me using his domain and software.

-- Tony Rowlett (rowlett@mail.com), April 01, 2002.


Droogies, Baca Baca.

Problem Bolshoi.

Spaciba, Christian

-- chris chen (chrischen@msn.com), April 01, 2002.


Well said, Art. May we all put this into practice.

-- Albert Knapp MD (albertknappmd@mac.com), April 01, 2002.

Droogies, Baca Baca.

Problem Bolshoi.

Spaciba, Christian

What's this menat to be, Chris? It looks like Russian football fixtures. ;-)

-- Ray Moth (ray_moth@yahoo.com), April 01, 2002.


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