Information on the M mount Voigtlander R2

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I'm sure this has been asked before but I would like info on the R2 which is supposed to be available sometime in April. Specifically what framelines does it have, and what is the viewfinder size .72,85 or whatever? What metering system does it use, it is aperature priority? Does anybody anticipate any problems such as rangefinder misallignment or other quality problems. I believe it will be available for around $500 USA. Any other info for someone who would like a M6 or M7 but can't afford one would be appreciated. FWIW I had an M2 and 3 Leica lenses for around 30 years which I sold (regretably) a few years ago and am currently using a Canon-P and IIIc with a multitude of LTM lenses. I would like better viewfinders than the rangefinders I'm currently using and want in camera metering.

-- Gerry Widen (gwiden@alliancepartners.org), March 26, 2002

Answers

I had the chance to handle the Bessa-R2 at Macworld Tokyo. It's much in the same vein as the Bessa-R - .72x viewfinder with manually selected framelines for 35/50/75/90 lenses, centerweighted match-needle exposure system. The feel of it is more refined than the R with a metal body and good fit/finish. Same shutter, etc so the sound of it is identical.

I was very favorably impressed ... If I didn't alreay own the M6TTL, I'd be in the market. As it is, I'm more likely to upgrade to an M7 body when I can.

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), March 26, 2002.


Godfrey particlualrly says:
...centerweighted match-needle exposure system

I did not have a chance to handle R2 personally, but I tend to believe that R2 has the same exposure system and display as R, which is LED-based, not match-needle.

As for the camera itself the viewfinder offers ~x0.60 magnification, which is nice for 35mm users. 90mm framelines, however, are similar to 75mm framelines on M-bodies: just tiny angles of the frame. Should be a nice shooter body. Oh, and it also takes same trigger-winder as Bessa-T.

-- Alexander Grekhov (grekhov@wgukraine.com), March 26, 2002.


there is a mini-review of the R2 in this week's amateur photographer, along with nice pics of the two camera finishes. according to the review, metal top and bottom plates have been added, and the camera generally has been upgraded to compare more favorably with leica standards (according to the reviewer). the camera certainly looked beautiful. it was matched with a new 50 f2.5 color skopar that also has enhanced build quality. the lens DID look marvelous. (as an aside, the collapsible lanthar that comes with the anniversary camers has build quality that, to my eye, equals or even exceeds leica standards. pop photog measured the performance of the lens and found that it was either the best or among the best normals ever tested by the mag -- amazing for a collapsible. the moral here is that voigt can achieve high build quality when it wants to). also coming out is an slr 90 and 45 and an m 35 (i think that's rite, check the article). now, as for aperture priority, the sad answer is NO. that is the camera i'm waiting for!!!!! an R3 -- with R2 build quality and specs, but with AE automation. that's an M7 for everyone!!

-- roger michel (michel@tcn.org), March 26, 2002.

CameraQuest at http://www.cameraquest.com/voigrf.htm says the viewfinder magnification is .7x, and when I looked through the camera it was very close if not identical in eye relief and viewfinder size to what I see through my .72x M6TTL.

With regard to "match needle" the reference here is to a coupled manual metering system wherein you match the meter indication with a proper exposure gate. This description has been perfectly valid for Nikon F Photomic FTn as well as Nikon FM despite the fact that one used a needle and a gate and the other used three LEDs. The important concept is manual coupled exposure meter , not whether the "needles" are implemented as a set of LEDs or a swinging meter needle and gate or pointer.

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), March 26, 2002.


Match needle means there is a needle pointer that has to point to a space between + (over-exposure) and - (underexposure) scales, for correct exposure. Match diodes uses arrows and diode lights rather than a needle and a scale. You can't make up your own definitions. These things have established meanings. A needle is a needle and a diode is a diode.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), March 26, 2002.


Eliot sez:
Match needle means there is a needle pointer that has to point to a space between + (over-exposure) and - (underexposure) scales, for correct exposure. Match diodes uses arrows and diode lights rather than a needle and a scale. You can't make up your own definitions. These things have established meanings. A needle is a needle and a diode is a diode.


Sorry Eliot. The use of "match needle metering" originated with systems such as you describe, but has been applied with equal validity to many cameras using both needle pointer and LED/ LCD indicators stretching back 25+ some years when LED type displays started to replace needles in cameras. I certainly didn't "invent" my own definition. However, I think that arguing about it is moronic and will not post on the subject again. Believe what you want to believe.

Godfrey

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), March 27, 2002.

Actually - technically - pedantically: "match needle" means there are two 'needles' - one driven by the meter and one connected to the aperture/shutter controls, and by adjusting the aperture and/or shutter speed you align the second with the first - a la Leicaflex, Nikon FE/ FE2/FM3A etc.

You can't match ONE needle by itself any more than you can match one card by itself. (What is the sound of one needle matching?.....)

Some cameras (Pentax, Nikon F/F2) replaced the second needle with a gap, notch, cutout or other non-moving index - as Eliot describes. But a notch is no more a 'needle' than is an LED.

But it was easier to call it a 'match-needle' system than a 'match- notch' system - especially since it worked on the same principal - setting the camera to match the meter by 'zeroing' an indicator against a reference - and people already understood the old concept. The 2 or 3 diode systems are just another refinement of the same principle. But I do kinda agree with Eliot - if you tell ME a system is match-needle I'll expect to see a needle SOMEWHERE in the viewfinder. But then I'm gullible....8^)

Gerry - framelines 35/50/75/90 - two are combined (but I forget which two 50/75 a la Leica ?) mag is about .72 or slightly less. Metering is match-whatever (you have to set the shutter and aperture with your own hands - the meter just tells you when it thinks the exposure is correct by way of little lights). Some V'landers have had problems with rf alignment or sticky shutters - so I won't be surprised by the same things in the R@ - ALTHOUGH VC is taking some extra pains with the thickness of the back, so maybe their quality control will be tighter on the -2. Price sounds about right.

The VC cameras are basically the same shutter/wind mechanism as in the cameras Cosina builds for Nikon, Vivitar, Olympus, etc. (see the FM10 - e.g.) vertical shutters - so they will sound very different from the Canon/IIIc - more 'snap'. The R/R2 steal the cool folding rewind lever of the Canon P, and in fact are very similar to the Canon of 40 years ago - except their finders are MUCH brighter and contrastier - but not life-sized like the "P". And they have the meter and 1/2000th second.

-- Andy Piper/former Canon P owner (apidens@denver.infi.net), March 27, 2002.


Actually - technically - pedantically: "match needle" means there are two 'needles' - one driven by the meter and one connected to the aperture/shutter controls, and by adjusting the aperture and/or shutter speed you align the second with the first - a la Leicaflex, Nikon FE/ FE2/FM3A etc. ...

Yup. You make me wonder who invented it and where it was used originally. First time I came across the coupled match needle setup was on a Rolleiflex 3.5F (1959 vintage). Rollei 35s had it in 1966.

Of course, it could have been and probably was first seen on an uncoupled hand-held meter setup ... This is akin to how a Gossen Pilot and many others from which it has descended work.

For me, "match needle" indicates a type of exposure indication system, not a specific implementation. But then I'm getting old and think in conceptual terms more often than literal... [grin]

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), March 27, 2002.


35 and 90 are combined; 50, 75 are separate. I think they should have combined 75 and 90 as the old Canon 7 and 7S combined 85 and 100. But, okay, 75 and 90 VC's look and feel alike; 90 and 35 VC's don't.

-- Alex Shishin (shishin@pp.iij4-u.or.jp), March 27, 2002.

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