I have a Classic M6 from the first batch of 1000 and have had ZERO problems with it since I got it second hand in '89. The DR fits and works on it fine. The SA blocks the meter cell.

This is about the meter diodes, however. When I SLIGHTLY open/close the aperature from the correct, evenly illuminated diodes, the brightness of one or the other varies continuously. It seems VERY sensitive to even small changes. However, it doesn't work with intermediate shutter speeds; probably something to do with electrical contacts not being continuous in the shutter dial (?). I didn't try all the intermediate speeds, however.

I think the Leica brochure stated that one could over/under expose the frame by 1/2 stop by varying the intensity of the diodes, such that one is less bright than the other, keeping both on.

Does the M6/7 TTL with the center confirmation dot have this capability?

I for one LIKE IT.

-- chris chen (chrischen@msn.com), March 25, 2002

Answers

Chris

Yes it does, though slightly differently executed. Personally I _much_ prefer the way it's done in the M6TTL and M7. When you're within half a stop you get the arrow and the centre dot at the same time. When exposure is spot on you just get the centre dot. There's no question of having to judge the relative brightness of the two diodes.

Nigel

-- Nigel Bowley (nigel.bowley@btinternet.com), March 25, 2002.

Sounds like people find the M6TTL/M7 metering system easier, but I for one am glad you like it, because I am considering getting a classic M6 in the next few weeks.

-- David Killick (dalex@inet.net.nz), March 26, 2002.

I own a classic and a TTL, and while I generally agree that the TTL's metering dynamics are conceptually more advanced, I'm sometimes put off by the TTL's longer response time. I've checked other TTL's and have found the same thing - that I sometimes have to wait for just a split second for the meter to "settle," whereas the Classic's response is instant. This can make a difference in fast-moving situations.

-- John Layton (john.layton@valley.net), March 26, 2002.

I'm in agreement with John there. The response time of the classic is far better than the TTL under some conditions.

But Chris, the M6 doesn't allow intermediate shutter speeds according to the instructions.

-- Tim Franklin (tim_franklin@mac.com), March 26, 2002.

I have a Leitz M6 "Classic." When one of the two arrows is on, then that's a half stop. I much prefer the "Classic" meter and viewfinder, the M6ttl and M7 have to much crap in them. If I wanted a "heads up" fighter pilot display, I'd get a F5 of EOS 1V.

-- Glenn Travis (leicaddict@hotmail.com), March 26, 2002.

I've used the M6 Classic for many years, and also an R6.2 which has the TTL-style metering. I don't find one or the other any faster or more intuitive than the other.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), March 26, 2002.

Glenn

You might be right about the M7, in auto mode ay any rate; don't know, don't intend to use it. But the M6TTL? One extra dot = a "heads up" fighter pilot display? LOL!

Nigel

-- Nigel Bowley (nigel.bowley@btinternet.com), March 26, 2002.

Re: M7 metering. Central dot plus one arrow means 1/2 stop under or over (depending on which arrow is lit up). One arrow w/o central dot = one stop under or over. Central dot only = correct metered exposure. The M7 display is relatively unobtrusive compared to most SLRs. In no way can it be considered like a fighter pilot's display. With the camera set on AUTO, the shutter speed lights up when the shutter button hits the first pressure point, and the upper little red dot glows continuously when the second pressure point is reached and held (eg., for meter memory lock). This way, you know what shutter speed is set and you know when it is locked in. This is unlike the M6 and M6-TTL (or the M7 in manual mode), in which you cannot assess the shutter speed at eye level, you have to look at the SS dial.

Also, the M7 shutter speed dial has no stop, so it can be turned continuously in either direction without having to go back in the other direction. You can figure out where you are by noting that the auto setting clicks in palpably more strongly than the individual shutter speed settings, so you can go from manual to AUTO without looking.

I think all-in-all, Leica did a pretty go job incorporating the AE feature without upsetting the operation of the camera more than absolutely necessary. In my estimation, the shutter is a softer than my M4-P or older Wetzlar M6 (although these haven't had a recent CLA). If anyone is thinking of buying an M7, I suggest you give more weight to someone who has one and can tell you about what it's really like than someone who does not have one and doesn't have any firsthand knowledge. I read a lot of stuff about the M7 that is just plain wrong.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), March 26, 2002.

Nigel, It also has the flash symbol! That's what pushed the M6 ttl over the edge for me. I mean the dot is bad enough! The M6 Classic, simplicity itself. Two arrows, and that's it. All you need to take an exposure reading.

-- Glenn Travis (leicaddict@hotmail.com), March 26, 2002.

It just goes to show you that no matter what the characteristics of the M7, Leica cannot please all of its users. Some people are upset because it uses batteries and doesn't have a full set of mechanical shutter speeds, other people don't like the displays, others think it has too little automation. Still others aren't happy because it doesn't have a spotmeter, while some people think aperture priority should be used in conjunction with an integral or center-weighted metering pattern. Too many red dots ... too few dots, on-off switch in the wrong place, etc. etc.

I guess the best they can do is to build a camera that offends the fewest users. :-)

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), March 26, 2002.

M3 and M4 were made severals years ago Eliot, you know, but I still can find a reason to like the M6... it is just like the others, with a meter, that can be a pain in low ligth situation, and mine works only up to 1/30, at 1/15 meters just fails, only rigth arrow stays on, I guess is humidity below the shutter speed dial, or the other dial behind, or both.

About the use of a M7, I´m sure would be a joy, with it´s learn courve, specialy in combo with older bodies, it will go to manual often, specialy in B&W,

I´m so used not to use a meter that M6 becomes useless,=%&/#" good pictures sometimes don´t allow to measure, is a sigth set lens rise and freezz and a even more afected finder in low ligth places because of not being able to switch meter off, is the only thing I would add to a M6, and to a M7.

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), March 26, 2002.

Up until recently, improvements in successive Leica M models were minor or, in some cases, even questionable. Hence the various different opinions about which is the best M body of all time, how quality standards have declined over the decades, whether the M6 TTL is better than the M6 "classic", etc. Such comparisons are highly subjective in nature, odious and tiresome.

Now, at long last, with the launch of the M7, we are offered a model that significantly differs from its predecessors. Disputes about whether the M7 is better than the M6 TTL have given way to more objective discussions about the configuration and merits of the M7's functionality. It's like a breath of fresh air!

-- Ray Moth (ray_moth@yahoo.com), March 26, 2002.

I don't think Leica had much of a choice in incorporating some automation into the M line; just as Hasselblad had little choice in incoporating electronics into their medium format cameras. There just aren't enough all manual/mechanical purists to sustain the M line. And I just don't think you can entice a new generation of photographers who never touched an old M camera to Leica (regardless of its reputation) without some automation.

They did the best they could by making the electronics unobtrusive and keeping the essential feel and finish of an M camera (this based on having an M7). I think they did pretty well in this regard, but others may disagree. I hope those that disagree will try out an M7 and see what I mean. The plusses significantly outweigh the minuses.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), March 27, 2002.

Oh God no, not a flash symbol! I see what you mean Glenn, way too much information. Of course you only get the flash symbol when you're actually using a flash. And a real purist would be using a flash bulb (remember those) attached with a PC cord :-). Or maybe a pile of powder with a flint and wheel?

The way I look at it is that my Rioch 500 ME that I had 20 years ago had an on/off swith that locked the shutter release, and a way of telling whether there was a film in the camera (mechanical, not electronic). The rangefinder didn't flare out either (although that's about the only good thing that can be said about it). These things should have been incorporated into the M6. Finally, with the M7 we've got them, along with a more accurate, and even quieter, shutter. The other things: DX coding, HSS flash, and ap auto, are extras. They're nice to have, but you don't have to use them. I might use them, or I might not. Just my POV.

Nigel

-- Nigel Bowley (nigel.bowley@btinternet.com), March 27, 2002.

Nigel -

Please don't chuckle, but my M4 has two PC connections on the back - - - one for a flash and the other for use with the old FP flash bulbs. I still have a Canon flashbulb thingy with a folding reflector that fits the hot shoe. I can adjust the diameter of the reflector for wide angle and normal/tele lens coverage. I still have some twenty + packets of Sylvania blue FP mini bulbs left over from the early '70s. The little calculator on the back of the Canon helps me find the f/stop speed and distance, and I can use the focal plane bulbs up to 1/250th with a reasonable amount of care. Now - - how often do I use my flashbulb capability? Not very often, maybe twice a year at most, but it's there when and if I need it. It's an M4 thing. ( Gosh. I'm really dating myself! < big grin >)

-- George C. Berger (gberger@his.com), March 27, 2002.