Principal, teacher removed from Pitcher Elementary while district investigates alleged strip search By JOE ROBERTSON and DEANN SMITH The Kansas City Star

The principal and a teacher have been removed from Pitcher Elementary School while the Kansas City School District investigates allegations that third-graders were subjected to an improper search, district spokesman Edwin Birch said today.

The principal is Jana Schwimmer. The teacher was not identified.

Parents and students at Pitcher met this morning with a state investigator and school district attorneys to discuss the alleged strip search over $5 of missing money.

"The district has to investigate these allegations," Birch said. "We wanted to reassure them (the parents and students) that we want to do the right thing."

The state also must investigate, he said, which is why an investigator with the Missouri Division of Family Services joined the meeting.

Parents have complained that children told them earlier this week that boys had to drop their pants to be searched by an adult male, while girls were searched by other girls.

District policy does not allow strip searches and specifies that any other search cannot be done in front of other students.

Superintendent Bernard Taylor Jr. hired Schwimmer as principal at Pitcher last summer. Taylor and district attorneys briefed school board members about the incident in a closed session Tuesday.

Taylor sent letters home to some Pitcher parents Tuesday, saying that investigators may ask to talk to their children to get eyewitness accounts of a "disturbing report that students...may have been subjected to an improper search of their persons."

The Missouri Department of Elementary and Secondary Education has no policy on strip searches and instead allows local school boards to set their own policies, said Kris Morrow, an attorney for the department.

"If a district is even thinking of doing a strip search, we tell them to be sure and contact their school district attorney," Morrow said. "Because of the invasive nature of the search, strip searches can be a litigation mine field."

-- Bob in WI (bjwick@hotmail.com), March 22, 2002

Answers

Yep. It was all over the news here in KC. Can you believe it? They said they had the kids looking in each other's underwear for the missing $5 bill! And they said that it wasn't the first incident of strip searching students in the KC school district! Good grief - how do you spell LAWSUIT???? I'm so glad I live WAY out in the country and have the opportunity to home school my girls. How horrible for those poor kids!

-- Cheryl in KS (cherylmccoy@rocketmail.com), March 22, 2002.

If I were those parents, I'd sue, and also make the school fork out for a private tutor once a week for the rest of K-12--no way would I let them go back.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 22, 2002.

I sue too, look at all those catholic children used and abused and rape by all those priests, and then the Pope stand in the Vatican and spend an hour talking about everything like a parrot and did not addressed properly the problem. Some people are going to be rich rich.

-- Ralph (rroces1@yahoo.com), March 22, 2002.

My DW mentioned that we live way out in the country and homeschool our two daughters. She didn't mention that our oldest went to the public school here in Osawatomie a while when we first moved here. The principal and a couple teachers were relieved, I think, when we told them we were homeschooling. They got tired of seeing me in their face when it came to my girl. My thought on their opinion of me taking that active a role in how my daughter was treated in their school was, "Too bad, so sad!"

Nobody will get away with not allowing my daughter to get a drink of water after recess in 100* weather because some of the boys were too rowdy (actual event), or with telling the class my daughter is in that they are too dumb and lazy to do their homework right (happened, too), or with giving my 3rd grade daughter a make-up test in cursive (which they don't teach here until 4th grade) and flunking her because she didn't understand the questions! My daughter's well being and education is ultimately MY responsibility, and I'll see to it she gets the best (and since she's being homeschooled, she WILL!)

Had the situation that happened in KC involved my little girl, there wouldn't be a second's rest for those involved. You really don't want to get on the wrong side of a short lil' fired up Irishman when it comes to his kids! Not a pretty sight! I'm just glad our girls don't have to be subjected to the stupidity that attempts to pass for an education system these days!

Sorry for the long post, folks, but stuff like this really gets me fired up! Our kids are our future! I'll shut up now ... thanks for listening!

-- Phil in KS (pemccoy@yahoo.com), March 22, 2002.

On the flip side.... what if one of the kids searched had a .357 mag stuffed down his trowsers and planned on blowing a few kids away later that day? Wouldnt you all be cheering the school district for their very strict policies? Especially if the found a note with his intentions on it in his belongings? These strip searches are really sick and not a good thing, but they are for a reason, im pretty sure. Look at the state of the schools today! Do you have any idea of how sick teachers get from hearing from 30 overly protective little irishmen/ women a year? The parents often believe their kid's version of what happened (which is generally based on truth, but stretched in the kids favor) and go off a bit too easy on the teachers. Please, there ARE bad teachers, and I have had some of them. But most teachers arent teaching because they enjoy that paycheck... they are teaching because they enjoy the job and kids in general. (my mom was/ is a teacher). I think I'll homeschool, considering!!!

-- Kevin in NC (Vantravlrs@aol.com), March 23, 2002.

Look there are idots everywhere, you gonna remove your kids from society? "Im gonna homeschool cause Im scared". I love public school.I teach it, live it, and you know what, my kids are fine.

-- julie (jbritt@ceva.net), March 23, 2002.

These were third graders who were strip searched because someone lost a $5 bill! There is NO justification. Would I remove my child from society? If that society wants to strip search my daughter because some kid can't keep track of his money, then you betcha! If that society allows kids to remain in middle school after threatening the lives of other students (actually happened here!) - then yes indeed! I'm sure there must be some good public schools out there somewhere. But, they're not HERE - so I will continue to homeschool, and raise my daughters in a happy, healthy environment.

-- Cheryl in KS (cherylmccoy@rocketmail.com), March 23, 2002.

I would like to respond to some of the comments on here. First of all, Kevin, the POINT I try to make to anyone/everyone I talk to about the involvement I have in my children's lives is this ... take a more active role in every aspect of your child's life! My daughter doesn't have to worry about the school finding something on her ... she knows dad or mom KNOW that she doesn't have anything she isn't supposed to have! If parents paid attention to their children and did the work at home, much of the problems in the schools would be solved before they ever got started, and the teachers who love teaching our children could do their job and TEACH! As for how the teachers/schools feel about hearing from worked up parents, my thought still stands - too bad, so sad! That's MY child and I'm going to do everything I can to make sure she gets treated with respect and dignity ESPECIALLY in her young, impression years!

And I don't think parents should just rant and rave at the teachers - that doesn't solve anything. I've actually gone and sat in the classroom for a day when I felt there was a problem (the teacher telling the kids they were dumb and lazy), after clearing it with the principal and visiting with the teacher. Wasn't trying to disrupt the class or cause trouble,but I wanted the teacher to KNOW that there were parents that were actually interested in the wellbeing of their children! Interested enough to take time off work and come to school and actually SEE what was going on. That's the kind of involvement I'm talking about!

As for the possibility that they might have found something life- threatening - that's why our duaghters are homeschooled! I can't controll how other parents attend to their children! Folks, any way you count the beans, the responsibility in all this is on THE PARENTS! If you don't want your kids taking things to school that are harmful, check them yourself before they go to school. And let the school officials know that if there's a problem, they can call you and you will come to the school and take care of it. It's your child and your responsibility - NOT the school's or the police or anyone else!

I'm sure I've ruffled some more feathers here today - sort of intend to! One of the MAJOR problems in our society today is that we've gotten so busy obtaining "things" for our kids that we don't have time to give them the love, attention and discipline they need to become well-balanced adults! Come on folks - at the very least, they are our FUTURE! But more importantly, they are our kids ... love them enough to take the time to be there for them! And let your school officials know that if there's a problem with your child, the first thing the principal should do is CALL YOU and let YOU come deal with the problem! If you're not willing to do that, then don't bellyache about what happens in the schools! That's my take on it, and not from a lil' fired up Irishman, but from a loving, caring father of two of the most wonderful, beautiful daughters in the world!

-- Phil in KS (pemccoy@yahoo.com), March 23, 2002.

Oh ...Julie ... thank you! I'm glad to hear that you LOVE teaching and that your kids are fine! You tell me ... wouldn't your job be easier and more enjoyable if the parents of the kids you teach took a more active role in each child's development and safety? Doesn't that sort of make sense?

Since you ARE a teacher, I would let you know the same thing the teachers know here ... you treat my kid with respect and do your job as a teacher and a good example, you'll get my support 100%! You'll know you can call on me anytime you have a concern with my child and I'll come visit with you and we'll work together to resolve the problem.

On the other hand, you don't treat my kid with the respect and dignity she deserves and you'd know you would have to deal with me in a completely different light. That's IF my girl were going to public school! There are great teachers everywhere ... and education would actually BE education if the parents were as active in their children's lives as they should be. Just my humble opinion!

-- Phil in KS (pemccoy@yahoo.com), March 23, 2002.

Kevin, they could use metal detectors to keep guns out, no need to strip search.

And, I feel that as a parent you are responsible for your own children- -Phil is right, you can't control what other parents do--so if that means taking your children out of a bad situation, that's what you do. Yes, it is a shame to throw away all of the tax money you pay for schools because you have to do the job yourself, but when schools become places so unsafe that parents can't feel safe leaving their children there, there is no other alternative but homeschooling or private school.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 23, 2002.

I love the way the first instinct is to sue. This has become the plague of our society. Money doesn't just fall out of the sky, suing the education system means the education system *pays*. Rah!

-- kath (uberbabe64@hotmail.com), March 23, 2002.

I don't think lawsuits are the way to go either, but have you ever tried to get a teacher or administrator removed or reprimanded for incompetence, harassment, or any other reason? It can be impossible.

When our daughter was in FIRST GRADE at public school there was an old music teacher who pulled children around by their hair if they did not move fast enough to suit her. She also did other things that were not appropriate. We went to the administration with our greivences. The principal said he was not going to do anything about it because this was her last year of teaching, and any major disciplinary action, or dismissal could affect her retirement. We also went to the superintendent and he also refused to do anything about it. We talked to other parents who also had complained about the teacher, but nothing was done about for them either. This was an ongoing event. I found out later that this teacher had been doing this type of thing for many years, from former students who were now adults.

The next year we began to homeschool and never looked back. We have been very happy with our choice.

Talk to you later.

-- Bob in WI (bjwick@hotmail.com), March 23, 2002.

One doesn't always sue for money--you can always sue to remedy the problem, but in the case Bob mentioned, you may not be able to achieve the removal of a problem teacher/administrator.

A lot of the suits over disabled education, for example, are all about getting the child an education (paying for special ed teachers) which is theirs by law, not about getting money.

This strip search thing, though, well, I don't think an "I'm sorry" from the school is going to cut it with those parents--it wouldn't with me. And even if they removed the teacher from that school, it doesn't mean he/she won't get work somewhere else--once a teacher is tenured, or if the union backs them up, it is nigh onto impossible to fire them. They usually just get transferred and become someone else's problem, and this also happens with problem children (bullies, for example), sad to say.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 23, 2002.

Where does it say anything in the constitution about the government having anything to do with the schooling of children? That's our job.

There are many wonderful people out there who do a good job of education. 2 in my immediate family. Both reccomended we homeschool our kids. Education begins at home with the parents.

-- chux (chux@chuxworld.orbit), March 23, 2002.

I was not exactly a bad kid during my young years, but I certainly wasnt a "normal kid". In second grade, a music teacher made me wear a wooden board around my neck for the duration of one entire school day that had written on it: Baby. If you tried that at the office, or at work, with an unrully employee, I cant even begin to think of the lawsuit youd have. Third grade was cool, had a good, old fashioned teacher who was strict yet not an idiot, either. Fourth was only OK. In fifth, middle school began. For this and most of sixth grades, the middle schoolers had to ride home on the high school bus. I picked chewing gum out of my hair EVERY day for 1 and a half years. In sixth grade, a class mate clubbed me in the back of the head with a chair (in an uninstigated "fight"- I didnt know one was going on until I was laying on the floor) He knocked me unconsious, and there was quite a bit of blood. 45 minutes later, the teacher noticed I was laying there, no one in the class had thought it prudent to mention it. My mother removed me from public schools then, and I entered private schools. Things got worse from there. I was beaten up by 8 yep, 8 class mates that I had known and been "buddies" with for 2 years the day before graduation in 8th grade- I was spit on, kicked in the ribs, and peed on. In ninth I had a nun physically attack me for reading a book in her class ( I was flunking that grade anyways) she tore the book to pieces and drug me 50 feet to a confessional (this was a catholic school) BY MY EARS and locked me there all day. the vice principal found out, bailed me out, and paid for my ripped up book out of pocket, apologizing all the while. There came a point in time that I carried weapons to school to defend myself, THIS WAS how I gained respect in school- from that day on (I showed an upperclassman down by drawing a big knife when he was coming after me and planning to jelloize me or something- he was on the football team and looked the part). I was attacked by a senior with a hockey club during gym class, another senior stepped in and defended me (I was pretty small and the defending senior was pretty big!). All this is just the tip of the iceberg! You are right- the school system works well for kids. Thats just where I want my kids to go. Damn strait im scared! Respect for class mates, respect for teachers, all that is a thing of the past. Andf I never went to school in the big city either- this was rural.

-- =( (No@No.com), March 24, 2002.

No,

I have heard similar stories from countless people over the years. I am at a loss to explain how a system like that contiues on and on. We are supposed to send our kids to school to get an education, not the crap beat out of them and be tortured every day by some sadistic so and so . The teachers obviously don't have a clue as to what is going on or they would do something about it. But if they do know and don't do anything about it they are worse than the kids who are doing these things in the first place.

Either way public and some provate schools are no place to send your children.

-- Bob in WI (bjwick@hotmail.com), March 24, 2002.

There was a big fuss up here in the Newport, Maine school district two or three years ago because the schools wanted to introduce a new health curriculum which included vaginal examinations of girls. I remember getting as far as "you must have the principle's permission to keep your child home from school for religious or family reasons, including vacations" in the school handbook and figured out I had no rights as a parent according to the school. Many things have happened in the school system since then to reinforce my decision to homeschool my daughters. Just this weekend I found out a coach/teacher who was handing out alcohol filled "Sweet Breathe" by the handfuls to his students was arrested for sexual abuse of students. My daughter's friend would bring her treat from her teacher over and the girls would get really giddy off them. I told my daughter no more, her friend would have to leave them home. Sucks to have warned another parent, have them look at you like you're paranoid, only to learn you're right. What's even worse is when I looked at the local newspaper to see if it was mentioned, there was a teacher arrested for sexual abuse, but in another school district. That's two cases in the same week. I have no regrets concerning my decision to homeschool.

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), March 24, 2002.

We pulled our last two kids out of public schools in the early 1990's and homeschooled them til they graduated....

I wouldn't recommend ANYONE putting any child in public school for any reason...

I regularly cover school board meetings for three school districts in two counties and it is unreal....they don't care about the kids....mostly how much money they can get...

The Alabama legislature last week voted to give Alabama teachers ANOTHER RAISE even tho there is no money for school supplies and they may have to FIRE some teachers because giving raises to others means that will use up all the money...that just doesn't make a lot of sense to me...

Homeschooler is the best way a parent can make sure a child has the best education.

-- Suzy in Bama (slgt@yahoo.com), March 24, 2002.

Yep, homeschooling is the only way to go for us. Our kids have never been enrolled anywhere. If you count from birth, we've been homeschooling for the past 15 years.

It was enough to go to the local mall last Friday night to remind us as to at least one reason why we don't put our children through the big socialization experiment failure called public school.

-- Lav, Maryland (lavenderbluedilly@hotmail.com), March 24, 2002.

And how many of you have the college education needed to instruct your children? How many of you know of the teaching methodologies and assessment techniques? I'm guessing that the are getting just what you have.

-- julie (jbritt@ceva.net), March 25, 2002.

Julie, I am a college graduate with a 3.97 GPA, and I am quite capable of teaching my children. By the way, you had a grammatical error in your last post. You might want to proof before your post next time.

Now then, as for your earlier post that stated, "Im gonna homeschool cause Im scared." I certainly hope you're not teaching English! It should be, "I'm going to homeschool because I'm scared." That being said, I would like to make it clear that I'm not afraid of our public school system. It simply disgusts me!

-- Cheryl in KS (cherylmccoy@rocketmail.com), March 25, 2002.

Julie, I don't think anyone is questioning your qualifications specifically.

As for hometeaching qualifications....the one on one ratio and the commitment a parent has to their own child goes far beyond whatever may or may not be lacking in "degrees". There are plenty of examples of moms and/or dads that have nothing more than a high school diploma or GED and their kids go on to get perfect or very high SAT scores, win scholarships, become successful entrepenuers, etc....

Having a college degree does not presuppose success as a teacher or anything else for that matter.

The problems in public schools isn't just one thing or another but a collection. And, IMO, most of the problems began when the foundation for teaching morals was removed. In the secular schools there are no absolutes and without absolute truth you eventually get chaos. Parents expect the schools to discipline but the schools have no foundation for the discipline.

-- Lav, Maryland (lavenderbluedilly@hotmail.com), March 25, 2002.

Their are bad apples in every barrel and our school system isn't immune to having them. I am proud to say I am a teacher and enjoy every day of it, passing on my knowledge to others is the one thing in life that makes me want to go on. Yes we have bad teachers just as we have bad ministers, priests, electricians, carpteners, etc......., my point is parents need to keep on top of things and know the law and use that knowledge to make sure your child isn't being mistreated or not served in the proper way at school. In most cases children who have parents that feel strongly about homeschooling will get just as good of education as those who attend public school it is the parent that thinks homeschooling is cool and after a month or so are to tired or bored that they let the school part slide and the kid sleeps late or watches tv and little or no SCHOOL (learning) takes place. I think when parents take on the responsibility to homeschool their children they need to take it seriously and do it everyday if not they need to send them back to public school where at least most of the teachers try really hard to do a good job. Just because a few teachers hit the front page doesn't mean we are all bad most of us teach because we want to, not because we have to. Believe me teaching will never make you rich money wise just rich from your knowing you helped someone on the way to a better life.

Sally

-- (mallardhen67@hotmail.com), March 25, 2002.

Sally, it seems to me that if there were more teachers like you out there, then less of us would be homeschooling our children. You sound like a good one! :-) The problem is that so many parents these days just don't take the time to raise their children! And the public school system is given the task of trying to discipline and teach these kids. It's a shame. I honestly do not blame the teachers for the sad shape of our public education system - although there are a few I've encountered who had no business in a classroom! It's the entire system that is at fault, as well as our society as a whole. When will our society REALLY begin to cherish and nurture our children? I consider myself very fortunate to be able to homeschool my girls. It's a tremendous responsibility, but it's worth it. And frankly, I don't appreciate it when a "professional teacher" puts down homeschoolers! If the school system was doing as good a job as these "professionals" say they are, then WHY are more and more kids being homeschooled each year?????

-- Cheryl in KS (cherylmccoy@rocketmail.com), March 25, 2002.

my kids go to public school. i am going to school now for a degree in elementary education. if i had the support i need i would homeschool my children. Other members of my family (husband) do not approve, so i am unable to do so. The education I am receiving to be allowed to teach school is so far not very fulfilling. methods and applications are general and do not apply to all kids. my kids are getting a decent education in public school. the oldest wants to homeschool. they have problems with other students occasionally, i take the tales with a grain of salt and they have been informed to defend, but not begin any fight. there are so many problems with all the school systems, most of them related to society and how it has changed. my kids teachers do not see most of the parents ever. my first grader's teacher had over half the parents not show up for conferences. parents are falling down on the job all over this country and that is the bottom line.

-- laura (okgoatgal@hotmail.com), March 25, 2002.

Laura, it doesn't matter if you teach kids "not to start a fight, but okay to defend yourself". The schools do not care, it is simply easier to expel both parties, which to me is unfair, but then so is group punishment....

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 25, 2002.

Oh, you are so right, julie! We all need to know a teaching methodology to teach our child that 2 + 2 = 4. I'm also sure that none of us have the mental capability to assess whether they have learned that 2 + 2 = 4. After all we are all just stupid parents! All teachers are more concerned with what is best for our children than the women who bore them!

Does anyone here know where the roots of Communism started? Try Education! Sorry, Marx was an educated idiot!

I know there are teachers who genuinely want to educate children. I also know that there are schools with the same desire. Nevertheless, no teacher nor school replaces the parent's influence in a child's life. Neither does education guarantee that a child will grow into a productive moral adult.

My grandmother had a 3rd grade education. She raised her brothers and sisters after her mother passed away. My grandmother went on to raise my mother and her four brothers and sisters. She lived a happy successful life. Most of her children went on to earn the college degrees that she was denied. All of her children went on to become successful people.

This nation was built on people just like my grandmother. Every person whether educated or not has value. Every person has been given talent and opportunity. If there is a sin that today's society has made, it is that we have elevated education to the point that we ignore all the precious traits of all human beings. We look down upon those who were never given or never wanted the education we so value.

Great men are not necessarily educated men. Great men are men who live exceptional lives with education or without it. This doesn't mean that education itself has no value. Education is a tool. Just as it is easier to hammer a nail with a hammer than your fist, it is also easier to communicate with your fellow man, and manipulate your world with an education. Still, the heart and mind of a person is the source of that person's value, not his education.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@farm.com), March 25, 2002.

I'm with Little bit..great answer!!! My Dad went to 8th grade, as most of his generation. He is one of the most knowledgable men I've ever met{I'm alittle bias} He could build anything, did all his math on paper..loves reading. The most important things I've learned were from him and my Mother! Not a school teacher!! Teachers are restricted to their classrooms & subjects, a society within itself.

-- Suzanne (weir@frontiernet.net), March 25, 2002.

Many frequent users of the good ole' computer type in slang. I am not in a school setting so I "ain't" proof reading my work. And, I bet that you do not always use correct grammar to speak. That is the difficulty with English, we do not speak as we should write. Even professional writers make mistakes. Ask someone who cares.

-- julie (jbritt@ceva.net), March 26, 2002.

Thank you for the kind words , yes I love my job and the children I teach and each and every one of them know I care about them and will go to the wall for them and have in the past. Let me tell you about my nephews family in Texas they have 7 children and belong to a fellowship of about 700 hundred families who homeschool their children the really neat part about this group is they homeschool in the morning and then after lunch the children to to the church farm and learn all kinds of things such as draft horse farming, metalwork,woodwork,spinning,weaving,pottery,sewing,and on and on. These children are the sweetest best disciplined children I have ever had the joy of being around, not just the ones from our family but every child in that group they discipline with love and it shows; just to look into those childrens faces you see the love and caring that they have received. Each year on Thanksgiving weekend they have a childrens fair and they sell the products the children have made throughout the year , their choir sings and the orchestra plays. The children's art work and writing is displayed and you can feel the love it is there and it is real. Homestead Farm is in Elm Mott, Texas just outside of Waco go just once you will be hooked for life it is like cleansing water it makes you believe again. Sally

-- (mallardhen67@hotmail.com), March 26, 2002.

This is a question for all you public school teachers (JULIE). The biggest complaint I hear from the teachers here is,because they have so much 'other' work to do, they don't have enough time to teach all the things they have to teach. Is that a problem for you as well?

-- Gayle in KY (gayleannesmith@yahoo.com), March 26, 2002.

Teaching what I am paid to teach comes first now and forever, then if I have the time and energy I will help out with ballgames, homecoming decorations, road cleanup, and ................................ The problem is along with your teaching goes hall watching, playground watching, bathroom check, lunchroom duty and .............. these are things that are expected of you along with your teching duties, you are not ask if you can or want to, you are told to and it is up to you to work out the time. Many nights I am still at school at 4:30-5:00 trying to correct papers, do grades and get my room in order. One of the things I do each day is spend an hour in the ISS room now that is a real waste of time mine and the students as they write rules about coming to the ISS room and how they are not going to do whatever again so they won't have to come there and then the next week here they are right back in again. I sometimes feel schools put to much emphasis on sports and not on learning. Sports are important but............so is learning. Sally

-- (mallardhen67@hotmail.com), March 26, 2002.

I am fortunate to have a large planning block in the morning. I do think I have to discipline a lot...but we have a three strike method that removes the disruptive students within 3 minutes, it helps a lot. I am not afraid to contact parents either, that helps. I never have enough time for anything though...lol

-- julie (jbritt@ceva.net), March 26, 2002.

You can figure out that she is elementary...I am middle. One subject three grades.

-- julie (jbritt@ceva.net), March 26, 2002.

Hi Sally, stupid question alert!

What has changed that teachers don't want to do lunch/recess duty, bathroom checks, etc. when that was always "part of the job" before? I mean, with all jobs you have the bits you don't like to do but they come with the job. Is it because there are more discipline incidents than ever before?

I know in many schools they want to have parent volunteers do this sort of thing, but I know I (and others) are uncomfortable with the idea of outsiders (who often are not screened or checked in any way) writing out tickets (if I have to get a traffic ticket, to me you should get it from a policeman, not Joe from up the street) for bad behavior.

It also seems odd that with the "zero tolerance" polices in some schools, and very restrictive polices in others, that there seem to be more discipline problems rather than fewer.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 26, 2002.

GT, you know they'll put the discipline problems back on the parents.

-- Gayle in KY (gayleannesmith@yahoo.com), March 26, 2002.

The fact that a public school teacher is particpating on this forum on "school time" tells me a great deal about what is right and wrong about our educational system today.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), March 26, 2002.

Gayle, I know that, and I do think that discipline problems are 80% parental fault, my question was really addressing that there are a lot of teachers who want to completely remove themselves from ALL additional duties--in other words, all they want to do is stand in a classroom and teach, grade papers, have an occasional conference and go home--I think this is probably union-driven, as well.

Imho, I think observing children outside of the classroom environment can also clue in teachers to potential problems as well.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 26, 2002.

We are on a much needed spring break this week. BTW I teach High School Sally

-- (mallardhen67@hotmail.com), March 26, 2002.

has anyone heard of a day off, or spring break...maybe teachers should have a lunch hour to be on the computer either.

-- julie (jbritt@ceva.net), March 26, 2002.

I do NOT like the assumption (and that is all it is) that a college education and/or degree is ---needed--- to teach my own children.

That is just the sort of brainwashed hogwash that the so called educated would have the uneducated masses believe. The "educated" would have people believe that "they" know what is best. Sounds like Socialism/Communism to me.

-- Lav, Maryland (lavenderbluedilly@hotmail.com), March 26, 2002.