Why do so many people bemoan the lack of a self timer on the M6/7? To me it's like cruise control on my 5-sp Jetta, it never gets used.

The last time I used mine (M4) was more than 10 years ago - me beside a pill-box in Sicily - not a very good photo, BTW. I know I'm no Brad Pitt, but I just don't take pictures of myself much, or group photos.

I used to have a Nikon F2 and the timer was used for long exposures. I don't think the M's timer has this function, but I'll try later. Does the M timer have any other applications?

-- chris chen (chrischen@msn.com), March 21, 2002

Answers

Use the self timer with a wide angle like the 21mm on a mono-pod to get over the head crowd shots, or over spiral stair cases or any place where you might get a shot around the corner or over a ledge or where ever. I always carry a M-4 or M-3 body for these purposes when I'm shooting travel or stock. You'll be surprised at some of the cool images that you can get this way. You gotta think outside of the box sometimes. Good Luck....

-- F. William Baker (atelfwb@aol.com), March 21, 2002.

Sounds like a great idea; now if I can only find my monopod in my storage unit. How will it go over with the airport security? I guess I'll have to check it.

-- chris chen (chrischen@msn.com), March 21, 2002.

Hope I'm not all that self-conscious, self-righteous and so on, but it goes like this. I love driving off on my mountain bike out in the wilderness to things like old, broken down railway bridges (the main thing being also that there is nobody within miles) so if one or two shots might happen to include me, too, that wouldn't be all that bad (I think). But without a self-timer, that's not possible.

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), March 21, 2002.

it's probably because a lot of M owners take a lot of self- portraits...haha.

-- Dexter Legaspi (dalegaspi@hotmail.com), March 21, 2002.

I really do miss the self timer for many reasons:

1. (Unsurprisingly) as a self-timer, perhaps some consider using a Leica to include the user in a group shot or family picture as not worthy - sorry, but many of us enjoy these memories.

2. As mentioned, as a shake free means of releasing the shutter when using a tripod or balanced on a wall.

3. Also as mentioned when shooting in odd positions when the button can't be easily released.

4. In combination with the shutter set to "B" the timer provides an additional speed of approx 2 secs.

5. It just looks "right" - the M4 has a far more balanced look than the later models.

Remember, the removal of the timer was purely a cost-cutting measure introduced with the M4-2 in 1978. The space was later utilised for the battery compartment of the M6 of 1984 - but was this envisaged in 1978? I doubt it.

I'm by far in the minority, but I'd prefer the timer to the meter any day.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), March 21, 2002.

I tend to agree with past and present posts by Giles, not that we're always right.

I too like the "look" of my "loaded with all the options" M's with the timer. I like the idea of the monopod, as I've been there, not done that, but would have; GREAT technique lesson today; well worth the price of admission! 8^0

-- chris chen (chrischen@msn.com), March 21, 2002.

This is easy to solve. Just get a Kodak mechanical self timer made to fit the end of a cable release, and a short release. They work perfect together. Lots of timers on eBay - cheap. Easy to store, have with you.

-- Alec (alecj@bellsouth.net), March 21, 2002.

Alec,

I had one similar to that; got it for free (kit); never used it other than to test it.

Can you imagine the torque applied to the shutter button if you bumped the timer hard enough to make it break away? No thanks.

-- chris chen (chrischen@msn.com), March 21, 2002.

Sorry Alec,

I didn't take the TIME to carefully READ your post, which it deserved. I guess I have the same problem many of us have when responding to questions. Of course your solution will work for the cameras w/o a built-in self timer. I never used one on a cable, though. It sounds like a good idea. But, I'll have to remember which box I put my Gitzo in.

-- chris chen (chrischen@msn.com), March 21, 2002.

Chris, I had one of those screw in timers too, however I read somewhere that if the actuating spindle is too long it can damage the camera....so I cut it down.....too much...:(

What was that old saying? - measure twice cut once!

I spoke to Leica UK about retrofitting the M4 timer unit into my M4-P but they said no, I believe it has been done however.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), March 21, 2002.

Giles,

Leica wouldn't do it for $1000? There's a price for everything!

Mon Dieux

-- chris chen (chrischen@msn.com), March 21, 2002.

Giles,

Leica wouldn't do it for $1000? There's a price for everything! Mon Dieux

-- chris chen (chrischen@msn.com), March 21, 2002.

you guys are kidding -- right?? the leica is the ultimate low lite camera (fast lenses, no mirror shake, excellent low lite focus ability, etc etc). in fact, the low lite performance is one of the best reasons to own a leica. by using a self timer to trip the shutter, i find i can hold the camera steady about two stops slower than by using the shutter release. indeed, the release on any camera is a HUGE cause of vibration/shake. also, by having a self time built in, i don't have to remember to bring a cable release for tripod (or impromptu rock-tripod) shots. almost all my LF lenses have self timers for this reason (i have to say that the ST actually releases the camera MORE shake-free than a cable release). and so, i think it is a HUGE omission on the m6, and one of the reasons why my m6 sees much less use than my other STed m bodies.

-- roger michel (michel@tcn.org), March 21, 2002.

Self-timers have their uses (cosmetics aside), but not everyone needs them. It's one of the nice additions you get with a Hexar RF.

Some are more functional than others - with an F3's electronic release, a motor, and a locking cable release, I use to able to get 'intervalometer' series - lock the cable release with the camera on self-timer mode, and the camera would shoot/wind a frame every 10 seconds until it ran out of film. (sadly, the Hexar won't do this)

The Contax G self-timer will even shoot THREE autobracketed exposures - great for group shots in case someone blinks in the first frame - as well as for the bracketing.

The timer''s extra clockwork probably adds 25-50 grams(?) to camera weight, so I don't miss it on the M4-2/P. But then I have a Hexar when needed.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), March 21, 2002.

for a savings of 25 grams (less than 1 ounce), you'd sacrifice the self timer (or any other convenience)? even nasa doesn't worry about 25 grams -- the mustard in a mustard packet weighs more!!

-- roger michel (michel@tcn.org), March 21, 2002.

Thanks Roger,

That's another great lesson. But, it works for one second and faster speeds, no?

-- chris chen (chrischen@msn.com), March 21, 2002.

it works for any speed.

-- roger michel (michel@tcn.org), March 21, 2002.

"for a savings of 25 grams (less than 1 ounce), you'd sacrifice the self timer (or any other convenience)?"

Sure - I don't use a self-timer when using the Ms for documentary/ street/travel photography. So why carry the weight then? The difference is probably about 1 oz even - which is 5% of a 20 oz. M body (28.4g). I bet NASA would sell it's children to save 5% weight. 8^)

I mostly use a self-timer for pictures where the Hexar's other features are also useful - motor/AE/high speeds/remote release (family pictures, remote-mounted pictures, etc.) So, for me, these combos work great.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), March 21, 2002.

Chris- If they'd have kept the self-timer of the M4, we probably would not have gotten M6s. The availability of TTL metering completely overrides the utility of the self-timer. That is not reason for us not to have a self-timer, though. The little thing that buzzes and projects a pin into the threaded hole in the shutter release is never going to find its way into my camera bag. Supposing it had a small clip that held it to the film advance lever; a flange would slip over the collar that surrounds the shutter release. Instead of the goofy pin entering the shutter release, a much wider nib would push down the shutter release. Since it clipped on, instead of screwing into the release, it would be faster>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then, there is my other idea for a solenoid actuated shutter tripper. You'd hold something in your hand, like the car door remote. Push its button and something trips your shutter. How large it would be, and how it would attach to the camera, is anyone's guess. The little mechanical accessory self- timer ought to be modified so that it would clip on, rather than screw in, as it presently does. Of course, the screw in version works on all cameras, not just Leica, which probably explains its present design.

-- Frank Horn (owlhoot45@hotmail.com), March 22, 2002.

Hummm, now that we have the M7 with an electronicaly controlled shutter, can a dial in the delay electronicaly controlled shutter release M7S be far behind?

Jerry

-- Jerome R. Pfile, Jr. (JerryPfile@msn.com), March 22, 2002.

Jerry- If it was do-able, why didn't they do it?

-- Frank Horn (owlhoot45@hotmail.com), March 22, 2002.

Interestingly, it does have that very un-handy built in delay of two seconds when you turn it on and the shutter is locked - according to the luminous landscape site it sort of kills the idea of grabbing the decisive moment if your M7 isn't turned on. Even my digital warms up quicker than that.

Surely all it would have taken to provide a 10 second release delay is a few lines of software and another notch on the dial

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), March 22, 2002.

Whoa guys. We're not dealing with a company known for leading edge/fast response anything.

It took them almost 15 years to market a body with an integrated ST (IIId and then only 500 or so of them), almost another 12-13 years before they brought it back (IIIf RD ST and that continued through the M4 for only for 20 years or so), and now its been gone for 25+ years.

In a decade or so they may get around to it. No giant steps here

Best,

Jerry

-- Jerome R. Pfile, Jr. (JerryPfile@msn.com), March 22, 2002.