How do you say good-bye?

That is what I am having an internal struggle with at the moment. How do you tell someone that you love and have known all your life good-bye?

Sometimes, I wish that it would have come quickly. I have seen this before, the (possible) long drawn out departure.

I want to scream at her. I want to hug her. I want to make sure she understands just how much I love her and how much she means to me.

I want to scream at her for not following her doctor's orders for 20 years. I have done it for years but finally gave up after my son was born. To set in her ways I suppose. Thought she could do as she wished and it wouldn't hurt, well at least not much.

Damn heart! Damn diabetes! One hurts the other which hurts the first. Cholesterol sucks. Kidney problems suck. Kidney damage to the point of them not being able to operate on her heart really bites the big one. So what is left? Go home and spend the time you have left in pain. What a way to go.

Sometimes, just sometimes, I wish that doctors had some real balls. They say that if they operate it will kill her. If they don't operate she'll die. I know the second to be a fact, but the first I'm not so sure. Try something, try anything. Just don't do nothing! Why not have the balls to operate? If she dies, it would be quickly and relatively pain free, and there is a chance that she could live. Hell, even the heart doctor didn't tell the truth. Her MD was the one that broke the news to her and my dad.

Those doctors should be glad that I wasn't there.

Here I sit 1000 miles away. Wanting to go, yet there are reasons I need to stay (can't go into those at the moment). Hubby doesn't want me to go alone with my son, yet he cannot go with me because he is about to leave. Life sucks and sometimes the military sucks more.

Seems like all the arteries in and around her heart are clogged, almost completely. Some of the clogs are so long that even a stint wouldn't be enough to open them up. The dye that is used is bad on the kidneys, and hers weren't working correctly as of late due to the diabetes. Kidney failure would occur and other organs would start to shut down per her MD if they were to try to operate. Yet, what do they do, nothing. Check her out of the hospital change her cholesterol medicine and stick her on a diet. They know she won't do a diet. Hell, she knows she won't do a diet.

I have known this was coming for years. I don't want it to come. I have accepted it, but haven't at the same time. Then there is my dad, her soul mate for 46 years. What will he do? His health isn't to good either. Somehow I can't see him living much longer when she passes, but he may surprise me. I hope that he does. My sister, the drama queen. She has her head so far up in the clouds that she can't see the truck about to hit her. Hell, I'm mad at her because she didn't help matters any. She knew the things Mom could eat, but did she ever fix them whenever they were over? Noooooo! She fixed all the crap that Mom shouldn't have eaten, as if she wasn't fixing them herself anyway. She'll be in such denial then fall apart for public display. When my Mom came to stay with me after my son was born, she ate healthy. She said she liked what I fixed (and may have been blowing smoke up my butt), but that is all there was to eat so what else could she say? I wouldn't let her cook simply because I don't like all that fried food or the salt. My Dad told me last night that he's going to "throw that damn salt shaker away!". I told him it was about time and that he should have done it 20 years ago.

Thanks Mom! Thanks for being there for me! Thanks for raising me to become the person that I am today! Thanks for being my friend! But I will not thank you for not taking care of yourself. I will not thank you for not being there for your grand children.

I Love Ya Mom!

-- Anonymous, March 20, 2002

Answers

Apoc...we went through almost the same thing with my grandmother last year. She's gone now. Maybe it's her health insurance company that won't approve aggressive treatment. Maybe she really is too sick to accept aggressive treatment, but you're right, she'll go easier asleep on an operating table.

We had to say goodbye to another family member right before surgery that was nearly guaranteed to kill her, and then she survived another two years.

Either way, saying goodbye on a spcific date (surgery) or saying goodbye slowly over time -- the only thing you can do is let her decide how it will be done. And help her do it her way, even if it's over the phone.

I'm so very sorry you're going through this.

-- Anonymous, March 20, 2002

Don't say goodbye. Just concentrate on the "I love you" messages. That's the best thing you can do, for both herself and for you.

I'm sorry to hear about your mother's health, and your own pain and frustration.

My own mom died a couple of years ago, it can still be very painful, even though I had some transcendent experiences with her at the end. I just lost my father-in-law of 29 years a few weeks ago, suddenly. Sudden doesn't make it easier. And he never listened to our advice either.

I said the overt "goodbye" stuff to a woman who had been like a second mother to me for 35 years last year on a day I knew would probably be the last time I'd see her alive, and I think it would have been a lot easier if I'd kept to the here and now "I love you."

There's nothing your mom can do that will change things at this point, and certainly you cannot change the past. Give her the thanks, give her the love.

Your feelings are your own complicated ones, and even if you and your relatives are all in the same room at the same time, your attitudes toward and memory of a death will be totally different from anyone else's. But as for what to be saying, perhaps these guidelines to think of may help: is what I am going to say help what we are going through to be easier, or make it harder? Will it increase the love, or lessen it? What's the most healing thing that could be done right now? And as a parent, you know one of the most important things we learn is to pick our fights, and not fight every battle that presents itself. That will surely be useful when dealing with relatives.

People will have some reactions you don't like. I've found that the dying are a whole lot easier to deal with than those they leave behind. Sometimes the stress of bereavement or impending bereavement brings out who someone really is (in both positive and negative ways), other times real solid, centered people can go into freefall for a while and you have to take what they say with a pinch of salt. Expect it. Make allowances for it. It may be hard to forgive some of it, and two years on I'm still not free of anger about my own sister's lies and inappropriate behavior, so I don't say it's easy. Remember the things people do for you that really works or helps, and pass it on when it is your turn to be able to help.

You didn't mention any religious or spiritual beliefs in your posting, but if you have any practice you do, use it as an anchor to bring context and strength to you in this stressful time. Make sure you are taking vitamins, and maybe some supplements that help the immune system, as this kind of stress can draw on your physical reserves. Find something physical to do, or exercise.

Do you have people with whom you are intimate that you can talk to whenever you need to about this, or do you feel it is your online relationships where it is easier to be honest? I know from my own experience it can be hard to find people who are comfortable talking about grief and loss, let alone the venting we need to do about our relatives. Make sure that if you still are feeling it, you have someone to talk to, as long as the processs takes (Don't rule out professional counselling, if it feels that things are more deep- seated than a normal grief or anger).

Does your Mom have a Living Will giving very specific ways she wants medical treatment applied or withdrawn under various circumstances? Specify the conditions for a DNR order. You'll probably need to talk with your Dad, to make sure he understands your mother's wishes. Assume that doctors do have to watch their own asses. They hate losing patients too, and sometimes they aren't as good as dealing with families as they could be. Ask questions, articulate to them how much truth you want to hear.

You have had a deep and complicated relationship with your mother, and a lot to work on in your grieving. I wish you strength and wisdom, and the understanding and support of those who love you best.

-- Anonymous, March 20, 2002

Thank you helen and Firemouse.

I have someone (Hubby) that I can talk to, and we have been talking. Just to bad that he is going to have to leave. :( He can't even go on this trip with me due to his duties. :( Guess his cell phone bill this month will be huge.

I will stress the "I Love You" aspects, but I realize as does she that this will probably be the last time that I see her alive. I found out that they "Code 99"ed her last night when she fainted. She is now in ICU. Don't know what the situation will be when I arrive there tomorrow evening. Seems like they just ignored her Living Will on that one!

I have about 12 hours of driving ahead of me in the morning. We checked out plane tickets but it would be about 2600 bucks for my son and myself. We'd do it but I wouldn't arrive any sooner than if I drove. Driving will give me the flexibility of getting back.

Some months ago, both my Mom and Dad made their pre-arrangements for funerals just so that we wouldn't have to.

I've got to finish packing for the trip and I have a splitting head ache. I'll be off-line until at least Monday maybe longer.

-- Anonymous, March 20, 2002

Be safe.

-- Anonymous, March 20, 2002

I'll be thinking of you, dear apoc.

The drive may turn out to be a more theraputic time for you than a plane ride.

Be safe and secure.

((hugs))

-- Anonymous, March 21, 2002

Damn, she's offline. You get back on here, you hear? You keep blaming your ma and I'll be over there to hit you upside the head.

-- Anonymous, March 21, 2002

It's just frustration and anger at the senselessness of it. It will pass.

-- Anonymous, March 21, 2002

Just seeing this..am praying for her safe travel.....poor thing...Hope she feels our arms reaching out and supporting her through this time..and firemouse, that was a lovely post.

-- Anonymous, March 21, 2002

Okay, now I have some good time to sit down and properly talk to apoc about how it is. Apoc, your mom didn't have access to the medications and information I had when I was diagnosed with diabetes, um, I forgot. Two years ago? You probably figure I'm fairly well- read, being a bona fide news junkie. Yep, but I knew nothing about diabetes. You know I was a strict vegetarian for a number of years-- about seven or eight--before I turned up with the Big D. I ate very healthily even before we quit all animal products (except dairy) during those years--lots of brown (bread, rice, pasta) and lots of exercise. I know I started to feel fairly tired than seemed normal, must have been about the end of the 2nd year of vegetarianism. Figured it was menopause, old age, whatever.

So, right, about two years ago I realized my eyes were failing, couldn't identify familiar products on the other side of the grocery aisle. Old age, right? Figured I'd get around to getting new glasses when we had a bit of spare money. Then I started to be real thirsty. August. Hot. Obvious. It was the heat. Very tired. More thirst. Gallons of liquids consumed. Got worse. Could't move. Figured it was chronic fatigue syndrome like my brother. It NEVER occured to me I might have diabetes. Impaired vision, raging thirst, fatigue, all classic symptoms of untreated diabetes. But I DIDN"T KNOW THAT! All that knowledge I had and none of it helped me. My sugar level was, I believe 542; normal is around 100 to 120. Another day, the doc said, and I would have been in the hospital.

My doc sat me down and explained to me about the facts of diabetic life. Seven of ten diabetics die of heart attack. Guaranteed. There's a medication, a blood pressure pill--they've found it protects against kidney disease and heart problems in diabetics, a recent discovery. I was only put on it about three months ago. Before that, there was a BP pill that protected kidneys only, also pretty recent. maybe a couple of years. The new BP pill will postpone the inevitable deterioration of those particular squishy bits--postpone, not prevent. Apoc, nobody knew about that pill until very recently so your mom didn't have the benefit of it, or the first one. I don't have to worry so much about the kidneys and heart now. (The squishy bit called the brain is another matter!)

Diet. Yeah, lose weight--right! "They" don't know why but it's much harder for diabetics to lose weight than nondiabetics. A few doctors think that diabetes causes overweight rather than the reverse. Certainly, excess weight triggers diabetes, but when I gained weight, starting at age 45 after being very thin all my life, I had no worries--nobody in my entire family had diabetes and everybody knows it's genetic. Ha! In any event, those of us who are old gits often have problems that preclude regular exercise, although I'm trying, dammit, I'm trying! (Working with Kim is equal to a couple of classes of jazzercise! I'm trying to keep active around the house, doing heavy work, even though it's a bit painful.)

Back to diet. Okay, so in your mom's case she had to deal with exchanges, a very complicated system of swapping one fat for two starches or half a sugar or whatever the hell it is. I don't understand it, it's way too complicated for me. May have been too much for her too, especially 20 years ago. Diabetic diets were terrible back then, very hard, because the dietitians didn't know enough about the disease. (I know because I have some old books on diabetes. Jeeze!) Nowadays, things are much simpler--you can count carbs, protein, fat, etc., just eat a very healthy diet and cut out the sugar, although you're allowed a little now and then. The healthy diet was easy for me--I had been eating it for years and years. But I had to start eating fish to add more protein. No sugar, so you have to add protein for energy and I was sick of beans and TVP. The average American diet isn't healthy, as everyone knows, particularly the Southern diet (ugh, deep-fried fat!). Sweetie knows this guy at the VFW, double amputee diabetic, tucks right into that horrible banana pudding with vanilla wafer thingies whenever they have a dinner--usually creamed potatoes, greens with bacon fat, fried chicken, cole slaw. . .)

Cholesterol. I don't know how long the anti-cholesterol drugs have been around--another relatively recent introduction, I think, certainly nowhere near 20 years ago to help your mom. The American Heart Association diet. Teehee. When Sweetie turned up with sky- high cholesterol, I put him on that diet--very strict--and his cholesterol increased over three months! That's when we went total vegetarian. I had long wanted to anyway. He STILL had high cholesterol, even after a year of vegetarianism, so he went on Lipitor. (The doc insisted I take it after the diabetes set in; I'm borderline on the cholesterol.) The doc said some people are just little cholesterol factories, no matter what they eat or how much medication they take. Connected--diabetes weakens the heart too, another squishy organ, as you said.

Your mom is lucky, apoc. Yes! Lucky! She hasn't suffered diabetic neuropathy, where the nerves in the extremities are damaged and gangrenous wounds, followed by amputation, occur. (Think Waylon.) Happens to a good percentage of diabetics. There's also diabetic retinopathy--blindness. Your mom doesn't have that, either, so at least she can see you and her family.

It's a tough call, apoc. I don't envy you at all. I know you're striking out at everyone and everything--raging against life. Normal. But don't be so hard on your mom. She had a tough hand dealt to her. Even the medicine I take, Glucophage, good, very reliable and few or no side effects, wasn't available to your mom 20 years ago. The damage to her organs began 20 years ago when there was little help for her except a weird complicated and horrible diet that only the most stoic could follow. By the time she had the new meds and new information, the deterioration was well underway.

Sometimes I get very tired of my health problems and wonder how much longer I can put up with this crap. I see my activities further curtailed ana the pain increase as each year passes. No fun. There will come a point when the bad outweighs the good, not for a long time, I hope. When that happens, I hope I'm able to decide for myself whether I want to go on or not. Perhaps your mom has decided she's had enough, apoc. Sometimes it's so very wearying, ya know? If I had to make the decision your mom had to make, I probably would do what she's doing. Nothing. After all, it IS her decision to make. She just wants to go gently into that good night. Let her choose how to do it. It's your job to make it as easy as possible for her and support her in whatever she chooses to do.

I DO understand. My dad is going into the hospital for tests on the 28th--barium and lapyroscopy (sp?) stuff. Doesn't sound good. No way I can go home, just not possible. Seems like a bunch of us here at Currents are hoeing hard rows right now. Life sucks sometimes.

-- Anonymous, March 21, 2002

I've been waiting awhile to respond. I've lost my mother, step- father, and father within the last ten years. You may remember that I lost my father last April.

None of these deaths needed to occur when they did: these folks had time to take preventative measures, but they chose not to. As OG pointed out, maybe it was a combination of not being able to respond to the "new" research and partly a "I'm tired of hurting." One specific example: my father was still *smoking* a pack a day, even after his heart attack in 1995. How bright is that?

Anyway, my point to all this is that there's a lot of anger/denial/grief/etc involved in passages: there are going to be some very bad days and days that are almost normal. You might experience a string of "normal" days and then suddenly find yourself crying or feeling really angry . . . that's normal. I will add that it does get a little easier with the passage of time. Now and the next year will be the hardest.

I wish that I could take you out for dinner or something, Apoc. But just know that you're not alone.

-- Anonymous, March 22, 2002

But just know that you're not alone.

No, you're not.

I went through something similar with my Dad many years ago. I understand.

-- Anonymous, March 22, 2002

Sorry you are going through this apoc, I know it is a really hard time. It has been over two years since my mom and 4 years since my dad and I am still sorting it all out in my head and heart. Be gentle with yourself and try not to struggle with it all too much.

-- Anonymous, March 22, 2002

I was a care giver for 7 years. We had my parents and my MIL all living here. I can honestly say that I did the best I could, and with the exception of my MIL their deaths were old age. Mother 90 and dad 99. MIL would have been 82 yesterday. Her 3 packs of smokes a day and two 6 packs of cokes a day did her in. For food she ate macaroni with tomatoe sauce. I tried...I cooked meals only to find them being fed to our pot belly pig. I have to say the only guilt that I have is that I was not with my mom at the hospital when she died. But I had MIL and father to take care of at home, plus a husband to get off to work, etc. But I made damn sure that my mom died knowing I loved her. And I kept and cared for father until he was so totally around the bend and violent. Kept MIL home to die in her own bed, but had to move her into nursing home at the end as she would not stay down and then would fall. Was in nursing home 2 days and broke hip and died two days later. Getting old is a bitch...and so is being the care giver. I am glad I did it....but I am even gladder that it is over. My husband and I are alone for the first time in almost 8 years. I am not a walking pharmacy, cook, diaper changer, etc. any more. I don't wake up mornings and do a quick round to see if all is well and no one laying on the floor. I don't have to think, I have to go to drug store to get pills, I don't have to think what to cook that day....none of them would eat the same things. Its nice! I soooooooooo appreciate this empty house after my husband leaves for work in the morning. I so appreciate talking in normal tones rather than yelling at someone to put their hearing aid in. I so appreciate not hearing Judge Judy blaring thhrough the house or that idiot Jerry somebody where every other word is "bleep". I find the silence soooooo healing. Thank you letting me share. Taz

-- Anonymous, March 24, 2002

Oh, Taz, you have such great capabilities! I know how hard you worked to keep your MIL as comfortable as possible, and for such a long time too. I don't know anyone who has the strengths and abilities you have or--more important--uses them so unselfishly. I'm so glad you have some time for yourself and chubby hubby! (And for the pets too.)

-- Anonymous, March 24, 2002

I'm back, and my mother got home from the hospital today. I left yesterday based upon my Dad wanting me to take two days to come home.

Dad had the discussion with my sister and me as to if we are going to change her diet and possibly keep her a couple of weeks longer or let her go happy. I said it was her choice and he shouldn't be asking us.

She has lost all feeling in her feet due to the Big D. She's had it for about 15 years. Has had one toe cut off because of it, and the other foot, well a surgery couldn't correct it.

She knew what she was doing for those 20 years. Now there is nothing to be done. Her vision is failing her as well, and her kidneys are about shut down.

She has massive blockages all throughout her body, not just her heart. Her passing may be very slow and painful. I hated to watch her struggle to breathe due to her heart not pumping the blood.

I didn't bitch at my Mom. I just told her how much I love her. We both realized that most likely it was the last time I'd see her alive.

While I was there, I cleaned up her gardens. Dead-headed her flowers so that the spring growth will shine thru. I mowed the yard and cleaned the house from top to bottom. I went grocery shopping and bought her a nice stockpile of the right kinds of food just in case she wants to live a little longer.

On my son's 8th birthday, I got pictures of the family. Too bad that I didn't take my tripod so that I could have been in the picture. Too bad it was in the hospital.

I've come to terms with it all, even though I do not like it. It was a very long lonely drive home. My son helped, but most of the time my thoughts ran thru the memories.

Thank you my friends,

apoc

-- Anonymous, March 25, 2002

I wish I had a daughter like you, apoc.

-- Anonymous, March 25, 2002

As I just posted to Brooks, the death of a parent is a huge blow regardless of the circumstances. As I know from personal experience. My deepest sympathies for all who are facing this or have recently had to face it - apoc, OG, Meemur, Diane, anyone else I might have missed.

-- Anonymous, March 25, 2002

Taz, David and SAR too. I'm feeling overwhelmed at the moment.

-- Anonymous, March 25, 2002

Hugs, Peter.

-- Anonymous, March 25, 2002