B&W Movies (Way off topic)

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Am I nuts!? Movie cameras and projectors a dirt cheap (gee I wonder why?). You can get 100' rolls of Plus-X and Tri-X reversal Super-8 for about $12, processed for another $6. How cool is it to shoot some grainy/choppy Tri-X Super-8 on you next Leica outing? Me thinks pretty cool indeed!

-- Dan Brown (brpatent@swbell.net), March 19, 2002

Answers

Actually Dan the rolls are 50 feet. This translate to about 3 min of film at silent speed (18 fps) and 2 1/2 at sound speed (24 fps). Factor in that, just like still shooting there will be a lot you'll throw away. When I shoot film I usually shoot everything at least 2 or 3 times to make sure I get something that edits nicely. My last 8mm short, edited to about 5 minutes (I shot about 20 min of film) ended up costing about $200.00. This all could have been done on a $2 videotape. Only problem is the film looks way better and was a heck of a lot more fun. Definitely try film - all I'm saying is the 'cheap' price can be deceiving.

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), March 19, 2002.

Thanks Bob, I beleive you. I still want to take stab at it.

Here is a question: What format should I look at, Super 8mm, 8mm where you split 16mm film (I think that is standard 8mm), or should I go straight to 16mm gear.

Right now, I'm thinking Super8 from Kodak with Kodak mailers, and picking up a camera (what are good/bads brands) on Ebay.

Thanks...

-- Dan Brown (brpatent@swbell.net), March 19, 2002.


Kodak is still making this film? You would think they would have stopped manufacturing this stuff to save money.

-- Richard (rvle@yahoo.com), March 19, 2002.

I don't know if Kodak still makes b/w Super-8 film (any regular-8 is long gone. Try www.kodak.com. It is certain, though, that Kodak DOES NOT process b/w motion picture film. That leaves you to motion picture labs.... my experience with this is 25 years ago, but b/w movies were fun. Perhaps go right to 16mm, a Bolex H-16 should be found cheap.

-- Mark Sampson (MSampson45@aol.com), March 19, 2002.

Since we're 'way off topic already - Some video cameras (I think only the digital ones) offer "B&W" mode. Do these in any way compare to shooting B&W film stock? And if not - do the computer video-editing programs offer capabilities that would 'regenerate' the 'film' look - grain filters or 'skip frame' editing to make it 'choppy' or even conversion to B&W after the fact?

I'm just wondering what options will be available if amateur motion picture film DOES disappear - I don't do film/video now, but you never know....

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), March 19, 2002.



A couple of points. No Kodak does not, and has not for a few years now processed motion picture film. But there are good independen labs in nearly any major city, and if you live in a 'film' city you have your choice of quiet a few. Kodak has no plans to discontinue Super 8 at the moment, though of course this could well change in the future. There are quite a few film schools and serious amateurs as well as artists working in the medium so it'll probably be around awhile. An interesting fact - if anyone remembers Paula Abdul from a few years back, a number of her music videos were shot on Super * because she liked the grainy look. 16mm gives much better quality, expecially if you are projecting big or intend on broadcasting. but keep in mind, you may be able to pick up a cheap wind-up Bolex as mentioned, but film stock and processing is about a five fold price increase over Super 8, and if you want to do your own editing most of the equipment (because it is still in pro use) is much more expensive than a garage sale Super 8 editor. Finally, film has a much higher contrast range (about 6 stops as compared to 3 for video), is sharper and has much better tonal rendition than video. The only thing that video has going for it is convenience and of course price (2 hours of finished film would be easily $1000.00 - a two hour vidotape is $2.00). Many people are doing what the music video people do - shoot on film and edit on videotape. A good transfer retains all the looks of film, but the end product is much cheaper and you can view it on your TV. (note that the comparison does not work for the new DVD - very high quality indeed).

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), March 19, 2002.

I want to thank Bob for helping me off-line. I appreciate your experienced intputs Bob. It appears the Super8 silent film and processing are readily (if not speedily) available. I am definitely thinking Tri-X and Plus-X reversal products, although Kodachrome and Ektachrome (sunlight and tungsten) films are available. Kodak does sell prepaid mailers for Super8, but apparently they are contracting with some other lab to do the actual processing. B&H Sells all this stuff.

16mm would be so cool, but it is very much more expensive. Not just the film and processing, but the equipment is still widely used so the Ebay market does not offer so many sweet deals.

Anyway, enough for now, I'm off to find a Super8 forum, so as not to clutter the fine Leica Forum with this off-topic drivel.

If anyone is interested, check out

http://lavender.fortunecity.com/lavender/569/

for a "Metadirectory of Super8 products amd resources.

-- Dan Brown (brpatent@swbell.net), March 19, 2002.


I've been a huge Super 8 enthusiast for the past ten years. It has become quite a cult movement among the young urban mod hipsters. Same thing with Vespas. Here in Austin there are clubs for both scenes, and they often overlap. Maybe Leica could be the next hip thing.

It's loads of fun, but Super 8 is definitely not cheap. But there is no substitute for the look or feel of it. And there won't be any Super 8 film cartridges left in ten years, unless you stock up now.

Stick to Super 8. 16 is a whole different ballgame. Way more expensive, and just not as...fun.

Check out http://www.flickeraustin.com/ for our local club and links to other Super 8 sites.

-- Luke Dunlap (luked@mail.utexas.edu), March 19, 2002.


Way back in the deeps of time I studied film and shot 16mm, 8mm and Super 8mm. My biggest work was a 25 minute short, shot in 16mm, which I collaborated on with a group of 10 other film enthusiast/students. Cost of somewhere on the order of $10-12K to shoot, process, edit, soundstripe, title, etc. We won a small award for it, which just about paid for the costs.

I swore then that if I ever went back into motion work it would either be with a big budget or with something much more fun to work with, faster and easier to edit.

A digital video camera, iMovie or Final Cut Pro can do everything we did then for $12K for less than $2000 now, and be much more fun in the process.

Someday I'll get back into it. The seductiveness of motion pictures is amazing.

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), March 20, 2002.


Would you guys quit. Two years back I sold my Bolex kit (with editing board) because it had sat unused for 10 years. Now you're making me regret it ;-)

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), March 20, 2002.


Well, I'm in! Just bought a mint Braun Nizo 2056 Super8 camera from a film maker in Germany. Now I just need toget that Tri-X reversal and processing mailers from B&H. My kids and I are going to start with a "Family Silent Movie" with my daughter (9 years) doing the title cards. Should be fun!

-- Dan Brown (brpatent@swbell.net), March 20, 2002.

Dan, may i ask how much the camera was and where'd you get it? How much are the B&H prepaid processing mailers? I haven't used a Super 8 camera in years and all of this talk makes me want to start goofing off with film again.

-- Richard (rvle@yahoo.com), March 20, 2002.

I bought the camera on Ebay in a Buy It Now deal for $150. You can go look at it if you want, the guy who sold it is from Germany and I've seen his posting on the Super8 and filmaking forums.

Kodachrome and Plus-X/Tri-X all cost $11.19 per roll at B&H. They are 50' rolls that equal 3 min., 20 sec. filming time. Kodak Kodachrome mailers are $5.59 and the stuff is sent to NJ, where they send it to Kodak Switzerland, takes 10-14 days, so they say. The B&W reversal processing is not done by Kodak anymore. I found a respected lab www.pac-lab.com in NYC the processes the B&W for $10 per roll. This isn't cheap, but I'm working up a story line to produce a silly little movie. I still need a projector and a enditing machine (both should be fairly cheap on Ebay).

I guess movie making is about the creative process of putting together a storyboard, arrainging the shots (they say 3:1 film consumption is very good) and editing a story together are what it's about. Pride in the finished product. Super8 is supposed to be much better than video in quality of the final produce, we shall see...

-- Dan Brown` (brpatent@swbell.net), March 20, 2002.


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