Tony, this Forum needs a MODERATOR!greenspun.com : LUSENET : Leica Photography : One Thread |
This Forum has changed so much in the last year. Yikes.We need a Forum Moderator with veto power. I nominate Jack Flesher!
How's about it Tony (and Jack)?
www.stevehoffman.tv
-- Steve Hoffman (shoffman2@socal.rr.com), March 18, 2002
That would be a great deal of work for anybody. Read the best and ignore the rest.
-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), March 18, 2002.
...What John Collier said... Although a "delete" key function would at times be nice!!! (But thanks for the vote of confidence Steve!):-),
-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), March 18, 2002.
I agree with Steve. It is unpleasant to have to sift through all of the garbage that appears on so many threads by people who sound like they are drunk, on drugs, malcontents, or just idiotic. The percentage of threads with these moronic posts is too large to just ignore. And it goes on and on and on.
-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), March 18, 2002.
Tony. If you don't start censoring some of the lunatics who are taking over this site (like Allen Herbert as just one example) and deleting the idiotic threads, you will lose patronage. Enough is enough.
-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), March 18, 2002.
I thought Tony was the moderator...Where have you gone, Tony Rowlett, a forum turns its lonely eyes to you...
(with suitable apologies to Paul Simon and the memory of Joe DiMaggio)
-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), March 18, 2002.
Gentlemen, and to those of you who are not gentlemen, please read on anyhow.I like the way Tony runs the forum. Yes we do suffer an occasional visit from a large turd with a Kodak Brownie and a chip on his shoulder but its better to just ignore them. Censorship breeds contempt and I strongly recommend against it.
There formerly was a very nice Minox forum on this server but the bozo who ran it did so with a very heavy hand often deleating legitimate posts and reposting the same information himself. He eventually killed off the forum. Yes he will tell you it has moved to yahoo e-groups or something like that but the bottom line is it died and someone else managed to nurse it back to life on yahoo.
If we really do need some sort of moderator control, I would suggest a garbage dumpster area where Tony could quickly move nuissance posts to keep them out of the main line. However, I really think forums are moderated the best when they're moderated the least.
Yes, that Alan Herbert guy would appear to qualify as one of those turds but what do you expect from a guy with a name like Herbert.
m
-- Mark (Leica_CL@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.
Absolutely! I hate to see this forum being brought down by some of the nonsense that gets thrown into otherwise good discussions.This is such a valuable source for information and the exchange of ideas, but unfortunately this may be the price we pay for an 'open marketplace.'
-- Carlin (carlinm@abac.com), March 18, 2002.
Moderating a forum takes vast amounts of time. I know this because I tried it a while back with the "Leica Pro" mailing list. Had to kill the list as I couldn't get anything else done.I think an ideal moderator would be someone who is retired or else a vistual arts/photojournalism/photography academic (and could thus claim list-moderation as part of their paid-for daily activity).
Otherwise, for those of us with businesses to run and photos to take, spending at least 2 hours a day deleting and/or editing messages is a real drag.
-- Andrew Nemeth (azn@nemeng.com), March 19, 2002.
Agreed! Challenging opinions are ok in a forum designed for learning such as this one, but when people take it too far and start having a go at others, the usefulness quickly becomes a distant memory. I also think that ignoring such ridiculous comments is another counter actiove measure we should all endevour to employ in our discussions.I too am noty perfect and sometimes get caught up in it all, but I am never hesitant to admit when I am wrong and suck in my pride. Pity that there are others who can't do the same, or even try. Good idea Steve.
-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 19, 2002.
Rather than a moderater it would be helpful to have a 'sign - up' funktion which only allows signed users to participate actively. This way all the fake-posts would be eliminated or at least posted under another name. But I guess this is true when in future this board moves to photo.net.
-- Kai Blanke (kai.blanke@iname.com), March 19, 2002.
... it would be helpful to have a 'sign - up' funktion which only allows signed users to participate actively ...Thanks Kai, this is a good idea and seems to me the best solution.
-- Michael Bohn (michael.bohn@skynet.be), March 19, 2002.
Its three in the morning and I can't sleep - so I tune into this and you know what? Its pretty entertaining! Don't get me wrong, I truly value the serious discussions on this site, but I sometimes think it gets a little heavy and obsessive. And obsession can be a good thing - but there needs to be a balance. So I say, lighten up and enjoy the ride!
-- John Layton (john.layton@valley.net), March 19, 2002.
I think Tony is an excellent moderator. He leaves most of the stuff submitted here and still tosses out some junk. This can be a lot of work, and we never see it all because he does a lot of it personally and behind stage.John's first answer above put it in a good way. If you don't like something (like a thread or a person), all ya gotta do is click "Back" and move on. Or quit. Or close Windows. Or pull the plug. Just do it!
-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), March 19, 2002.
This really seems to have come to a head in the last week, some of the crude, slanderous, racist and not to mention childish cr@p that hijackers are posting, especially in the HCB threads does need some deleting. If not, slowly the sensible ones will be driven away.
-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), March 19, 2002.
And as in the "35mm LTM lenses for sale..." thread above, please, just ignore idiotic postings, if they are totally ignored they will simply go away and bother someone else. Hopefully not us!
-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), March 19, 2002.
Giles, I sorta got the idea (of yours) too.If the amount of junk increases to the extent that there will be more to get away from than to assimilate, I'll head off too.
I did this months ago from Leica's own forums (English and German). Haven't been back since, and I'm still doing fine.
No, me being driven away doesn't mean I'm that all that sensible, and no, I'm not all that much an expert like so many others anyhow, but yes, I somehow still would miss most of the crowd here.
Mike
-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), March 19, 2002.
Hi, all:I'd like to subscribe Mark's words.
To have a decent forum means (amongst other items)that we resist the temptation of answering postings that are not worth it.
The only power hijackers have on us is to "invite" us to engage in their off topic matters and to respond to insulting propositions. It is up to us not to accept their invitations and continue dealing with is more important for us.
If we get engaged in this useless activities we are helping them to spoil the site.
This gentleman proclames "this site has been hijacked". I think he jumped to this conclusion far too soon, perhaps in the belief that his purpose had already been attained.
I think Tony is a very fine moderator and fully understands that part of his job is not to get engaged in this little nothing some people want us to make important.
IMHO censorship is not good. Not here either.
Regards, everybody.
-Iván
-- Iván Barrientos M (ingenieria@simltda.tie.cl), March 19, 2002.
I am the forum moderator. I started the forum a long time ago when I began having conversations with myself. I delete posts all the time. Many of you don't even see the posts I delete. Lately, I've been digging myself out of 28 inches of snow (an all-time record, even for Anchorage).Half of you feel I do a good job moderating; half don't. What do I do? Extra work and lose half, or nothing and lose the other half? I'm having a bad day, and my back hurts. For now, just take John Collier's advice. I'll get to the crap, I promise.
-- Tony Rowlett (rowlett@mail.com), March 19, 2002.
To Tony, I consider you a blessing to this group, and just wanted to thank you for the interest and work that you've personally put into the forum.
-- Glenn Travis (leicaddict@hotmail.com), March 19, 2002.
Tony you do a great job here. There will always be a few jerks with obviously no life. We could all help you if we just ignored these trollers and send them on their way to create havoc somewhere else.
-- Gerry Widen (gwiden@alliancepartners.org), March 19, 2002.
Tony. Thanks for cleaning up the crap. your efforts are appreciated. I think it does make a difference not having to go through a lot of garbage and uncivil posts. I remeber the last time Erwin Putts had posted something on this forum and thinking based on the responses I read that he would probably never come back. It is one thing to disagree with him, but there were several really hostile diatribes. For me, I would much prefer to see Erwin's posts than these diatribes.Thanks again and best wishes.
Eliot
-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), March 19, 2002.
Tony says, "Half of you feel I do a good job moderating; half don't. What do I do?"Tony... as good as you are as a moderator, you are not half as good as a mathematician. That ratio of half and half is not even close. You are doing a great job and I doubt you'd find 5% that doesn't agree. The thing is that for a couple of years you had an easy job, and recently there have been some... er, uh, things happening. A quick perusal of the archives will show that this is a recent phenomenon, probably more noticeable to those of us that have been here from the beginning than from folks that have come from forums where rudeness is the acceptable norm.
Assuming that we will still move, and that the move will require registration, then some of this rudeness should stop.
We can all help Tony by ignoring completely, not even two word of response, the jerks. They stay as long as they get any attention at all, so don't give them any.
Thanks for everything Tony!
-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), March 19, 2002.
Giles, I hope you are not implying I am racist. If you are, you are only contradicting yourself in this post. I am [expletive] sick of it! Leave it alone!
-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 19, 2002.
well, what can i say. i´m not the average leica user. i´m a26 years old law student from austria europe, i am still a skateboarder and shoot for various skateboard magazines. i wanna learn as much about photography as possible which i find quite hard using the internet. till i found this forum. i wanted to trade my r6.2 for an m6 leica; got lot´s of helpful answers, asked about a lens and film... lot´s of help again. so now i´m visiting this forum almost every day and i´m still impressed. sure sometimes there are questions that don´t seem to fit in, but you don´t have to read them. it´s always the readers own impression if the question is ok or not. for me the level of this forum is really high and most people are really supportive. just take a look at the german leica digital forum on the leica homepage to see the opposite. (of course for those who speak german) . a happy user
-- oliver (moengi@zip6020.com), March 19, 2002.
Tony's got my vote as well. The idiots w/ the half-baked & vulgar responses probably make up 02% of the respondents here. We know who they are; they know who they are. Most of us are suggesting that all the emotion & personal criticism be dropped forever from this forum. So let's drop the insults & get back to the fun. Tony's not to blame & has a general round of applause.
-- Patrick (pg@patrickgarner.com), March 19, 2002.
" ... Tony's not to blame & has a general round of applause "" ... just take John Collier's advice "
Wholeheartfully agree ! ! !
-Iván
-- Iván Barrientos M (ingenieria@simltda.tie.cl), March 19, 2002.
Tony has my wholehearted appreciation and support too, in case my post was ambiguous. I do wish, for his sake, that Phil had built in a delete button for administrators. As I understand it, the database needs to be structurally 'rebuilt' every time you weed out posts. So its not as straightforward as deleting email messages in your inbox, for instance.
-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), March 19, 2002.
Tony - just to follow up your new "admin" thread (as no replies allowed) - Wise advice and thanks for your efforts - it is sometimes difficult to ignore some of the recent (expletive) idiotic postings on this forum but to stop the rot we must all try.
-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), March 20, 2002.
A post with boldface (or other enhancement HTML) in the title prevents replies from being added to a thread. I don't think this was part of the original design, but there is no other way to prevent replies. I boldfaced the title of that thread because it was attracting some foul attention.I have written to the abuser's local internet service provider informing them of our recent antics. If they don't stop, I will post here the offending IP address, network name, and the ISP abuse hotline email address for all to note. If this becomes the case, then I can count on the help of, say, 50 people? 100 people? to write into the same abuse hotline as I have. It will be effective, I promise.
-- Tony Rowlett (rowlett@mail.com), March 20, 2002.
Your cause is my cause, Tony. Lemme atom.
-- Jeff Stuart (jstuart1@tampabay.rr.com), March 20, 2002.
Tony!You can count on the help of, say, at least me. Any day. Every day.
Sure hope a lot of your snow has now disappeared, too.
Mike
-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), March 21, 2002.
ISP no.195.10.125.90.Phil Kneen.service provider-Manx-net.There,I've done it for you Tony.
-- Phil Kneen (philkneen@manx.net), March 21, 2002.
among the popular forums like photo.net, usenet, greenspun.com, the last one is a poor design. All other do not need poster to fill in "Your Email Address" and "Your Full Name", because these are already contained in any message, and can be extracted. Why Philip Greenspun chose to make greenspun.com an annonymous forum is any one's guess. In any case, the demise of greenspun.com is imminent.Minox Photography moved to Yahoogroups long time ago, due to being hijacked. I still kept the site, due to useful information, however I removed "Ask a new question", so no new question can be added,
As for Yahoogroups, I must say it is immensely successful, the proof of it is that many groups on only servers are moving over to yahoogroups, including some yahoo own clubs.
Yahoogroups feature is far better than photo.net, it contain message board, searchable archive, chat room, data base for all kinds of registry, such as serial number registry, polls such as "What is your favourite camera ?", bookmark libraries and 50 mb of photo upload area, beside, picture files can be attached to message itself.
Currently, Minox-FAQ groups in Yahoo has over 450 members from around the world, it is the largest english speaking Minox group, it main asset is the collective wisdon of extremely knowledgeable Minox experts and collectors who can answer almost any questions on Minox camera and photography
-- martin tai (Minox-FAQ@-owner@yahoogroups.com), March 21, 2002.
Martin, I have to disagree. I am a member of the Minox yahoo group and I much preferred your earlier Minox forum and this Leica one because you can click on one topic/question and see all the dialogue immediately on the screen. This makes for much more comfortable and quick reading. The yahoo groups have certain adventages, but they also have pop up adverts that are annoying.
-- enrique munoz (dem331@yahoo.com), March 21, 2002.
I have to disagree too. At least for me, Yahoo is much too complicated, hard to view, hard to save, and I hate all that advertising. Our forum here is so simple and robust and has everything (well, almost everything) we need, and nothing (well, almost nothing) we don't need.Somehow like a Leica M itself!!!
-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), March 21, 2002.
Like it or not, you cannot argue against success !There are 916672 groups on Yahoo, even many list servers on AOL are moving over to Yahoo.
As for advertisements, this is a commercial world, nothing is free. Do you watch TV, newspaper, magazines ? advertisment is every where. So what ?
greenspun.com is doomed to fail
To begin with Philip treated greenspun.com as second class, refuse to use the same software as photo.net here
-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), March 21, 2002.
One big problem with greenspun.com is fake email addresses.As a moderator of Minox Photography on greenspun.com, even after moved, I still got Mail demon messages, due to fake emails, big headache for any moderator.
The problem is because greenspun display email addresses, and this invite junk mailers to scop up email addresses-- the result: you mail box will be stuffed with junk mails.
Yahoogroup protects poster's email addresses. great security feature.
-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), March 21, 2002.
This forum already has a moderator and an excellant one at that! The trouble isn't just the "childish" posts that some people make. It's also the responses they get.Why let these ridiculous posts bait us? What's so difficult about just ignoring them? Tony has already suggested that we ignore them several times now and to let him know offline if there's something posted that's particularly inappropriate. I completely support Tony with this and think it's very good advice. If we just ignore them then eventually they'll probably just go elsewhere...
-- Ken Prager (pragerproperties@worldnet.att.net), March 21, 2002.
At the bottom of all greenspun.com forums, there is a line "This forum is maintained and moderated by Tony Rowlett (rowlett@alaska.net). Please contact this individual if you want changes made to an existing LUSENET thread - see the User FAQ for details on having a thread changed. "A forum owner is also the only moderator permitted in greenspun.com
Unlike photo.net, or yahoogroups, which permit multiple moderators to help out,for greenspun.com forum it is hard to do, because there is only one moderator password for each forum <
The risk is, any moderator can suddenly changed the email address and password and takes over the forum
-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), March 22, 2002.
Another method available for greenspun.com forums to protect against unwanted message is user password, likehttp://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-challenge.tcl?topic=MATH
-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), March 22, 2002.