I would like to become more self-sufficient, meaning not having to buy so much stuff. I just wonder how realistic it is to expect this? I know we do not hae enough land to grow wheat, and corn to grind! I read how some of you go shopping once a month, and I know I must be doing something not quite right.

I am not really a collecter of things, but it seems like with kids there is always something they need. We do go to yard sales,and get clothes from friends also so this helps. If I need something like a new iron, I usally buy it new rather than go to lots of yard sales hoping to find an old usuable one. While Cale likes to build and work with wood, he is not too thrilled with working on small appliaces and such. Maybe I am just a little too comfortable with my life, and a little bit too lazy to totally be self-sufficient.

In the food departmetn, we are better than we used to be. For meat we have vension, turkey, and fish, but I don't think I could butcher one of my own chickens, I buy them form a friend who raises and butchers them. We thought about getting a pig, but again I wonder if the kids would eat it?? So I buy sausage from another friend. I buy all of our flours, and spices, but I grow all of my own herbs, garlic and tons of vegetables.

One of my new goals is to become more self-sufficient. Maybe I won't be 100%, but every little bit will help I am sure.

Tell me your thoughts on self-sufficiency. Do you expect to be sufficient any time soon? Are there areas you excel in, are poor at? Tell us your thoughts...

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), March 18, 2002

Answers

I'm told that self-reliance is the goal, not self-sufficiency(this doesn't mean not being around people). But I don't like hearing that. And then reality hits. Gary says it's impossible to be self-suffient in this day. I keep dreaming and planning and doing. If we could stop the world/time, put everything in place, then start it up again... I really think it's possible, but it would take an awful lot of guts and uniqueness.

To sum it all up, one step at a time while keeping you eye on the goal.

-- Cindy (SE. IN) (atilrthehony@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.

I don't think anybody is totally self-sufficient. There is always something that needs to be bought, no matter where you live or who you are.

My idea of self-sufficiency is to not depend so much on "the system". I would favour the idea of trading and bartering with neighbours within one's own community. For instance, I would take my pig to the butcher and have him butcher it in exchange for some of the meat. This "butcher" would simply be another homesteader who wasn't raising pigs of his own. Wool yarn from a spinner from someone who needs something I have.

As for irons and toasters, which no homesteader I know can make, I would also buy new. This is where it is not really possible to be totally self-sufficient. Another option for this is a Have/Want list posted on a church or community bulletin board. The "have" side lists what people have but don't need, while the "want" side lists what people need, but don't have.

Another source for new appliances: If you know a new bride, she probably got too many of one thing (blenders) and not enough of another. You might be able to work out an exchange of some sort. My brother and I got married within six weeks of each other. He gave me an extra tea kettle; I gave up an extra crockpot.

I shop yard sales very rarely, but I have a friend who stops for every yard sale in sight. She has asked about shoe sizes and looks out for skates and boots for me. Another friend asked me what size maternity clothes I wear, since she frequently goes to outlet places and watches for sales.

My point is, that we need to network with others so that we can be a part of a self-sufficient community, rather than trying to be self-sufficient individuals.

-- Cathy N. (homekeeper86@sympatico.ca), March 18, 2002.

Melissa, I doubt that anyone in this day and age is totally self- sufficient. We are not, nor do I really want to be. However, if something catostrophic happened in this country, I believe we could be. We grow our own food and since we eat mostly vegetarian we could survive that way. I do keep wheat and field corn seed on hand which we could grow if necessary for flour and corn meal. I'm really this year getting into seed saving so we will always have some food. We also are growing lots of fruit. We do have cattle and chickens. Right now we only eat the eggs from the chickens but before I would starve, I'd eat chicken! We also have lots of deer and wild turkey on our farm and of course a pond with fish we could eat. We have tons of candles and kerosene lanterns and kerosene to last a long time. Our biggest problem would probably be water. We do have a cistern and as long as we get enough rain, we'd be ok there. We also have a small creek running through our property and a pond. We have a wood stove for heat and all the wood we could ever use. I'd love to have a wood cook stove but have no place to put one. My plan with Y2K was to build a temporary barbeque grill out of some old bricks we have and I have a grate I guess you call it to put on it. We would burn wood in it and I'd use my cast iron pots and skillets to cook on it. My dad used to do that back before charcoal. Our wood stove for heat doesn't get that hot to the touch on top to cook very good on it although my husband does have one in his shop we could use if need be - although it would be inconvenient. We also have a generator with several gallons of stored gasoline we could use for short term. I always have enough food on hand to keep us through the next gardening season. It might not always be what we want but it would keep us from starving! I would love to not be dependent on the grid but my husband has so many power tools and machines that he uses, he would not want to give that up! I always have 40 to 50# of wheat stored and have both an electric and hand grinder to grind flour with. We have enough clothes to last several years but eventually they would have to be replaced. I would probably barter with neighbors for other things we need and that way we would help each other. I guess in that respect, we wouldn't be totally self- sufficient.

-- Barb in Ky. (bjconthefarm@yahoo.com), March 18, 2002.

I don't want to be self-sufficient, either. I garden and keep animals because I like it and because fresh food always tastes the best. Everybody works in this life; either for themselves or for somebody else. Even people who don't need to work usually will, either in politics or fundraising or something. I have been fortunate that in the last few years I have had a choice in where I work. Right now that is at home with the kids and the outside work. While I may sometimes fantisize about doing it all, the truth is I would miss going to town from time to time, wearing clothes of a better quality thn I can make, eating out on occasion (it is good to try out someone elses cooking for a change), and so forth.

-- Terri (hooperterri@prodigy.net), March 18, 2002.

I am not really a homesteader so I am sure my self sufficiency is not the same as yours, but I am learning how to do things on my own. I am fixing up the house, the toilet especially, I paid a plumber to come out and hook the gas line to the stove and had him look at the toilet that doesn't flush right. Well 95 dollars later I realized I could have done what he did myself. I had him show me how to do it the right way and went out and bought the parts I needed. I am doing my own fixer uppers, like I am building shelves to put in the pantry, I am going to paint the dining room, And work on the cabinets in the kitchen. It feels so much better doing things on my own than waiting on someone to do them for me. I am also able to give my kids more. We make some of our own toys and find things to do that don't cost too much. I am fixing more dinners in bulk and freezing them to use later. I think this summer I am going to try to freeze fruits and veggies to keep for next winter.

-- Melinda (speciallady104@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.

Melinda, these are great things. Your mom taught you well!

-- Barb in Ky. (bjconthefarm@yahoo.com), March 18, 2002.

I think that it is impossible to be truly self-sufficient, unless one is willing to "turn back the clock" to stone-age days.

Even if you are getting everything second or third hand, etc., you are still dependent upon the greater society that created them in the first place. Anyone truly willing to give up their phone and computer?

And also, think of the time spent merely surviving in those days-- growing the fiber, spinning the fiber, weaving the fiber, making the clothes, even knitting takes time if you raise the sheep. Food is another matter entirely. I would not want to go back to that.

I think the best way to go is learning to be a master at reusing items, although there will always be good reasons to buy certain things new.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 18, 2002.

Melissa----that means many different things to many different people-- - To my city friends who eat out all the time & have nothing in their cabinets or ref---wear first time, new ---clothes in designer labels-- -are scared of my livestock----think my herb garden is quaint---& are amazed at where my eggs & veggies & fruit come from-----wonder what that funny thing by the back door is---& what is it for (hand pump on the well)---wanted to know why /we had sooo much wood /when they buy those logs at the quick shop for their fireplace---(the wood pile for our wood stove)--wonder what that room is /full of supplies--(my 10' x 12' pantry)--where does that door go to that goes into the ground?? (our cave & root cellars)--why do I need TWO FREEZERS??? They think my oil lamps are neat-----but do I really use them????? They have no idea flour comes in 50 lbs & what on earth would I do with all that---how many YEARS does it last me???? ha! Well you get the idea!!!!!!! I don't think of our selves as self-sufficient really at all ---but just our "live style"----our friends think we are hermits--or something---so it is a matter of----how one & another see it---sonda

-- Sonda in Ks. (sgbruce@birch.net), March 18, 2002.

I have been the butt of many jokes with friends and family over all the stuff I do that's weird! My pantry is stock with the nessisities( I could make 3 squares a day for 3 months and not have to go anywhere). I buy in bulk, grow what I can, can what can, I have my own meat and eggs. I never buy packaged stuff, have the oil lamps and just about everything you can thank of. When I moved in with my parents, they were skeptical of all my old fashioned "stuff". After the last two winters, they don't say a word anymore. To me being self sufficient, is being able to provide for my family with little outside"help". We were with out electricity last winter for 7 days and this winter for 4 days(some where without for 17 days!!!). I had hot meals on the table,warm beds, everyone clothed and bathed. There is alot more I am working towards this year, but all in all I think if we can hold our own, we're doing better than most.God Bless

-- Micheale from SE Kansas (mbfrye@totelcsi.net), March 18, 2002.

I don't think you can be really self sufficent but you can always be raising the bar for yourself. ie. instead of just buying what you need. really think about each purchase and look for ways around it or new approaches to aquisitions. Try this for example, If your still buying bread, buy it day old, or better assemble the ingredients for making it. Make that you goal for a month to bake your own bread keep trying and at the end of the month it won't seem like such a huge task it will be just another thing you do. If it's not working out at the end of the month go back to buying bread or find someone to trade with. If you havent tried homemade laundrysoap you should you may not like it but then you will know and you can try another approach. If you still use your cloths dryer just for today you can set up a drying rack and put it to use I know some people who have theirs up all the time I have a spare room I use, but I still set up a rack occasionally by the wood stove things will dry faster there than in the dryer. What I am saying is keep trying dont quit and good luck..Ronda

-- ronda (thejohnsons@localaccess.com), March 18, 2002.

I don't think there has ever been a time in history when anyone was truly self-sufficient. There has always been a need to buy things. Even the early indians traded for items they didn't have but needed.

I think self-sufficiency really is a journey and not a destination. You do what you can...then reacess your situation to determine where you could become more self-sufficient - taking it a step at a time.

I think the problem nowdays is not that it "can't be done", but one in which most people can't "afford" to be as totally self- sufficient. When everyone is struggling just to pay the bills they have now, you can't afford to go out buying solar pannels, wood cookstoves (gez, have you priced those lately!!!), water pumps, etc. It is like the old coal miners...you work for the "company" but you have to pay the company and can't get anything saved to be on your own...cause you gotta pay the company. I don't know about the rest of you, but everytime we manage to get a little saved either the car breaks down, the septic tank goes out, the roof starts leaking, or there are mega medical bills. As Rose Anna Danna once said.."If it's not one thing, it's another"!

-- Karen (mountains_mama2@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.

Everyone seems to say that you can't be wholly self-sufficient, and I agree in the sense that no one really wants the standard of living involved in pure subsistence farming, but I've worked as a relief volunteer in a number of countries torn by war, and I've seen how many essentials one can suddenly have to do without. Self- sufficiency in a broad sense (ie, reduction of needs and the capacity to fill the remaining needs) is possible. It merely involves a drop in living standards that is disturbing to even homesteading americans.

Wheat can be grown in small patches, as can flour corn. We have about 3 acres around our house, and maybe half of that is open and usable, and we grow a good bit of both, and I'm going to add buckwheat and amaranth this year. Water is essential - a hand pump, a bucket well, a cistern, etc... I'm sure if you needed to feed your family, you'd be able to butcher chickens and maybe even a pig. In an emergency (and it can happen to us - Yugoslavia hosted the Olympics and 5 years later, it was a 3rd world country - I saw people standing in line for water!) you will do what it takes. After my tours there and in Haiti, I began stockpiling things like nails, batteries, etc... None of the people in Bosnia could have imagined that they'd be living like this either!

That said, however, the other kind of self-sufficiency, where you buy as little possible is also worthwhile. Amy Dacyzyn (sp?) suggests that the key to saving money is thinking ahead - don't decide you need a new iron on Sunday, and buy one on Monday, begin looking when your iron starts to heat up unevenly. Ask friends and neighbors, check the yard sales, etc... We're not so great about that either - we tend to see a need and fill it immediately, but waiting and watching is better. Food is easy - just eat lower on the food chain and more of what you can grow or barter for.

-- Sharon in NY (astyk@brandeis.edu), March 18, 2002.

All good answers. My theory is also that you do what you have to do. Of course one could go without an iron, or you could even stick the old non-working one on the woodburner to heat up without electric, or you could borrow one from the neighbor, or you could buy 2-3 ahead of time and store them somewhere in the attic! I am sure that almost anyone can do without if they HAVE to, the trouble for most folks is motivating themselves if they don't really have to! That is one problem when you start to accumulate money, you realize you don't really have to do the extremely frugal things any longer, however you still want to continue to do as many as possible so that you can maintain your frugal, self sufficient tendencies. Interesting reading folks!!!

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), March 18, 2002.

Melissa, here's an example of a decision one would need to make regarding your question of laziness:

I went shopping today, and bought some pepperoni. We have not had pizza in a LONG time, so I thought it would be a nice treat. I had a choice to make. Do I buy 250 grams of pre-sliced pepperoni at $3.97, or 500 grams of unsliced pepperoni for $2.49? I really, really, really wanted the pre-sliced, but we are a bit tight on money just now. I went with the unsliced.

Ordinarily, I would get the cheapest pre-sliced I could find, because I still have not figured out how to slice the stuff nicely without slicing myself. Is this laziness? I never thought so, but perhaps some others might. It is convenience, and we all have to decide for ourselves what balance we will have between convenience and self-sufficiency.

-- Cathy N. (homekeeper86@sympatico.ca), March 18, 2002.

Good comparison Cathy. Now my mind gets to thinking that Cale shot a deer, and some of the meat is ground, and I'm sure I could come up with a recipe for pepperoni, put it in the dehydrator and make it myself! Or I could drive into our little town and tell them to slice me up $1 worth of pepperoni (which they slice for free) and drive home and put it on the pizza! Or I could just order a pizza and forget about all of that. I will drive myself crazy with this!!!!

We actually talk about this all of the time. Like to REALLY make a home-made pizza, you should grow the wheat and grind it, make your own yeast and honey from your bees to sweeten, and water from your hand-pumped well. The toppings should be your own home-grown tomatoes, made into sauce on your wood-burning stove, and topped with the before mentioned pepperoni, peppers,(home-grown) mushrooms (from foraging) and finished off with cheese from your milk-cow that has aged to perfection!!! Now that to me is a home-made pizza! Or you can open one of those Chef Boy Ardee mixes, add water and throw on the sauce and little pack of cheese that comes with it...

Ha, Ha, I could think this stuff up all day. That is why I think it is difficult to obtain complete self-sufficiency without really changing your expectations as well!

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), March 18, 2002.

Being self sufficient probably not but try to do more myself. I have to make most of what I eat as I am on a reduced fat and salt diet. I make all my own bread (I do cheat and use a bread machine but I did buy it at a yard sale over a year ago) this gives me a better bread and it is cheaper than I can buy it for. I think that if you can you can do so much better even if you don't raise it yourself use the basic staples and doing it yourself. I don't remember the last time I bought any clothes new. Almost all of my furniture is used. I do try to buy appliances new if possible as with care they will last years and also the area I am in very few get rid of these until they just can't be used any more. But then again when I buy I don't go for the top of the line but what I need not what I may want. I also try to make decisions as to what I can afford not what I want. One example was do I get the internet or sallilite tv I got the internet as it was cheaper and could be used for research etc. I have a tv antena which allows me to get 3 stations and am able to keep up with the weather and local news. So to me I try to do my own processing even though I do buy the things to start with. Also plan on getting rabbits for meat and chickens for eggs and increase the garden.

-- gail missouri ozarks (gefozarks@centurytel.net), March 18, 2002.

From what I have read about your doin's Melissa, LAZY does not fit you.

Self sufficiency to me is being able to do for yourself without requiring major help from friends / family / neighbors. I am far from that description. And would depend on some factors, such as would we be the ONLY FAMILY having to subsist at this rate? Or would it be a nationwide event (depression, weather event, etc. effecing entire nation).

I have two freezers, both nearly topped off with various wild venisons. We have a small garden in the back, unusually small this year because of some new addition in the family precluded preparation this year, along with a couple of fruit bearing trees, prickly pear cactus and a few medicinal plants. I couldn't live for long on our backyard, but a nearby canal, where fish, and plenty of game visit, is nearby. Catfish, bass, various perch and drum are available. Cattails and other potential plants are available free for the taking. But that food source would be dependent if the environment was safe. Would I be able to reliably be able to take care of myself and my family (four in all); doubtful.

Another major factor, at least where I am at is water availability. I would love to make a well in our backyard, something having potable water, or at least something which could be filtered or distilled. That is the big item here; you can last at least a month without food, though in a weakened state. You need water within two to three days, POTABLE water which will not get you sick and dehydrate you even furthur.

Depending on hunting in a cataclysmic event would not be a way to go; to many others doing the same thing to survive. Much better would be to learn how to use and manufacture animal traps, which are out there 24/7/365 catching your food, versus you going out hoping to intercept an animal who may or may not show up. Even the Native Americans faced starvation.

But that doesn't stop you from doing what you can. You can learn how to fix things like automobiles, home repair, so you won't have to depend on someone else fixing it for you. You can learn to budget your money so that you won't have to depend on some giving you a loan to buy a required item. You can learn to do without, or make yourself the items that make you happy; it is remarkable how much you can do if you choose consciously to make the effort TO DO WITHOUT.

Good Question, Melissa.

-- j.r. guerra in s. tx. (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), March 19, 2002.

Interesting topic. I just finished reading a book about a town in New Mexico called Pietown. The setting is the Great Depression. They had no money and not much food, but they said they always had people around them -- never ate a meal with just their family ( meals were biscuits and gravy for breakfast, and beans and cornbread the other two meals). They bought some things, BUT they only bought things they could not provide. They never bought meat, or canned vegetables or fruit. If they could not grow them, they did without.

I do not think you can be self sufficient today for two reasons: taxes and insurance. Remember, back then there was no income tax, no property tax, no property insurance,no mandantory car insurance. We are prevented from being self-sufficient, even if we wanted to be.

-- connie in nm (karrelandconnie@msn.com), March 20, 2002.