There was a documentary on TV last night(Artsworld)about HCB and he didn't do himself any favours! What an arrogant,pompus,rude,unpleasant little man.In one scene he is looking through a museum portfolio of his work when he comes to a shot he doesn't like,he says that the shot is bad,the guy standing next to him agrees and laughs.WELL,HCB goes mental,I don't speak french,however I don't think he was thanking the man for his opinion!

I also suspect that he just says things to be a bit 'alternative'.I think HCB should keep it shut before someone rams his Leica up where the sun don't shine....

-- Jackson Smithe (jacksonsmithe@drangoon.com), March 17, 2002

Answers

"What is it they say about the french?"

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.

Little? The guy is pretty tall. And besides, his style has worked for him for 94 years.

And you don't know what HC-B said at all, its possible he was just being expressive.

I agree though that he does say things to be 'alternative' and to tease and confuse his interviewers. Playfulness is an old time virtue hardly practised in our modern, dull, literal styles of conversation.

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), March 17, 2002.

Well I prefer to separate the work from the author. It is only human nature to wish nice people do nice work and bad people do bad work but that is not often the case.

-- ray tai (razerx@netvigator.com), March 17, 2002.

Sorry for my arrogant response above. Special apologies to any French. Some of my friends are French.

I guess you could imagine that not eveyone is as nice as they could be and some choose to be NOT NICE. Plus he could've been having one of those days.

But you could also argue that by being a 'celebrity' he has an unwritten obligation to be nice to people when in public.

Besides, I think he has taken some shocking pictures as well as some very good ones, and he doesn't take criticism lightly- maybe because he was so hard on himself....I don't know.

Regardless, we'd all like to think he was a nice person because we admire his work. Pity not everyone is the way we always want them to be. He took some nice pictures, and we can like them, but we also DON'T have to like him. It's our choice.

Regardless (2) he was a great photographer, and we can only like him for that, anything else is a concious-ethical decision, or so it seems.

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.

Lastly, I think that for you to say that "HCB is not a nice man" may be a little harsh. Sure you saw a docu that didn't portray him in a nice light, due to his own negative actions, doesn't exactly mean he is not a nice man.

What is "NICE" anyway.

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.

You should admire artists for their art not necessarily as people. Sometimes they are tortured people that can only release their true humanity through their art. There are many examples of this, but Wagner is the most immediate onme that comes to my mind.

Kristian, what is it about the French? They are leaders in style, gastronomy, art and have one of the most beautiful countries in the world.

-- enrique munoz (dem331@yahoo.com), March 17, 2002.

Enrique, good point but i wasn't thinking about art and all that stuff. And to be directly honest (with all sincerity), they have a slight reputation for "comming across as" (not being) arogant.

Possibly a verbal communication thing. I think I should leave this one where it is now.

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.

Well, as I mentioned in the other HCB thread I too saw a documentary on the BBC two years ago - as I said in that thread:

"Some surprising views here indeed, HCB himself would probably deplore all of us here for our fanatical interest in a simple mechanical camera - remember his words as quoted on the back of "A Propos de Paris" - "Photography is nothing, it's life that interests me". Why are so many people giving him a hard time? Anyone who saw the BBC documentary ("Omnibus") a few years ago made to coincide with his London exhibitions would conclude he is a remarkable person - incredibly humble, charming and talented. There was a brief sequence of him at work on the streets - nimble and elegant.

To him photography was not about Leicas or aspherical lenses, it was simply a form of "instant painting" - his real love.

As he wandered through the London gallery surrounded by his life's work and was asked what it all meant, his answer? - "It is sh*t!"

Life and people is all important."

Jackson, when YOU have achieved perhaps one percent of HCB's lifetime work (of which photography is just one part) and come to be held in the same regard worldwide then you may just be worthy of attacking the man.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), March 17, 2002.

Kristian, yes you should leave it now. Please remember this is a global forum and not the place to repeat inaccurate and insulting national stereotypes.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), March 17, 2002.

i often find that i don't like "nice" people... the often do not seem genuine... I may think differently if i came from the midwest though.

-- Matthew Geddert (geddert@yahoo.com), March 17, 2002.

Giles, I understand what you are saying about global forum, but I live in Australia and am constantly aware of various cultures and what and what not to say. If anyone is to be offended by my comment, even after I applogised, then they are of no concern to me. I said what I said for fun, and people can't take, there is my apology, and if my apology isn't enough, then they are, again, "of no concern to me".

Thanks, now lets get back to the topic of photographer's work versus his nice/none nice personality.

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.

Giles,you do it every time! This isn't about me,it's about a rude little(big?)photographer who thinks he has attained god-like status.Just take a look at his work,it's crap most of it,HCB himself admits it.You all want to be like him ,but you never will.HCB had/has no interest in photography,he didn't want to be a photographer.

Do you think HCB spends half his life defending you in sad forums like this?

-- Jackson Sm (jacksonsmythe@drangoon.com), March 17, 2002.

Hey, did I start this? I hope not. Let's all calm down here. If you want my honest opinion,......I think that HCB photos were great and creative at that time. If a photo-J took pictures like his today, he would probably be sacked. I think that photographs from Salgado and DAH (although he uses the wide angle too much) are much better. The fact is this....he was fantastic at a time where not every Tom Dick and Harry wanted to take pictures. There are a lot more better photographers out there today, but his contribution to photogrpahy will always be remembered as being "legendary" whether we like it or not. That's my opinion and please don't FLAME.

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.

HCB is just famous for being famous.Photographers the world over worship at his church.And like God he doesn't answer any of his fan- mail.

-- Jackson (jacksonsmithe@drangoon.com), March 17, 2002.

Jackson, this isn't exactly what i would all a 'sad' forum (bad choice of words perhaps), it is a great forum from which I have learnt a great deal from non-sad people. Unfortunately there are some sad people making sad comments- not pointing the finger at anybody here.

Who and who is not sad is a useless distinction I am reluctant to make here. Let me just say that some people who's opinions clash with yours are good for thr forum, as they challenge our own ideas and open our minds to something new.

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.

"Some of my friends are French. "

Wow, that's sound like "Some of my best friends are Jewish".

Now regarding HCB, at 94, he don't care about what people think.

He never did, and was right about that.

And BTW, he is not tall.

Lucien

NB I'm not French or Jewish or HCB, but I'm tall.

;-)

-- Lucien (Lucien_vd@yahoo.fr), March 17, 2002.

Lucien, you just proved my point. But which type are you? Just leave it alone will you. And learn how to speak english before making such useless comments.

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.

HCB spent alot of his early years in and out of prison.He was convicted of violent crime at least 4 times,in one case he beat his wife so badly she was in a Paris hospital for 3 months.In a 1973 Sunday Times article a close friend discribed HCB as being a bully and a liar,stating that most of his photographs were 'staged'.In an interview Helmet Newton said if he ever met HCB 'in the flesh'he would kill him.

I have never met the man,but from what I know about him I would have to agree-HCB is not a nice man

-- Doren Simpson (doreansimpson@aol.com), March 17, 2002.

What a ridiculous thread: here we learn that HCB spent a lot of his early life in jail; that most of his work is crap; that he is taal; that he is short; that most of his work is crap, etc. Sorry, let me correct that, what a crock of shit. Are there any grown ups here?

All this about a photographer that virtually defines 2oth century 35mm phootgraphy; a man that has made hundreds of great and famous photographs; a founder of Magnum. For example, the only photograph in Gombrich’s _The-Story_of_Art is one by HCB.

He wasn’t a “nice man?” Gauguin was worse.

If you want ot know about his early life read the seminal _Henri_Cartier-Bresson_The_Early_Work by Peter Galassi.

-- Mitch Alland (mitchalland@mac.com), March 17, 2002.

I concur - who cares about Bresson - what type of photo gear Brad Pitt wears in a movie or the type of vest David Allan Harvey dons on assignment. These types of discussions and threads are futile. If more of you spent time actually taking photographs and improving your craft rather than harping about "the greats" or the "latest lense/body" maybe this link and the LUG would be more than glorified chat rooms for amateurs.

-- Ara (araayer@yahoo.com), March 17, 2002.

The French make the most fascinating and innovative films in the world.

I try to discover as little as possible about the lives of artists whose work I admire. They are often less than exemplary as people.

-- Peter Hughes (ravenart@pacbell.net), March 17, 2002.

Is there somebody who needs the translation of 'derriere' ?

-- Michael Bohn (michael.bohn@skynet.be), March 17, 2002.

My my my so much posturing and ranting going on. Somewhat amusing. Going off on tangents. Well, it is a discussion board after all. It has a certain Je ne sais quoi? Non non?

-- James (snodoggydogg@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.

Je ne sais quoi?

I know it's French. I kind of know the context it is used. But I'd really like someone--a French literate type--to give me an english translation.

I know this is completely off topic from the multinational ranting going on this thread but would someone please be kind enough to translate this phrase for a French illiterate type like me?

There are so many commonplace French, Spanish, and German phrases that abound in the English lexicon. I feel like the moron I am when I don't know the real translation.

-- David Smith (dssmith3@rmci.net), March 17, 2002.

This is a case (IMO) where someones 'public' expects them to live up to unreasonable expectations. Any artist should appreciated for his artistic ability - I'm sure there is not one of us on this forum who takes photographs so our personalities can be held up to public scrutiny. Why is it that as soon as someone becomes well know, whether they be an artist, sports figure or whatever we all feel they should be perfect. Unless they are in a position of public trust (politicians, etc) their lives should be seperate from their talent.

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), March 17, 2002.

Je ne sais quoi: I don't know what.

I think it's used to express a reaction to a quality for which words escape. Probably find more on it by plugging in "je ne sais quoi" into yahoo search.

-- James (snodoggydogg@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.

He's old, seen a lot and above all he's french. What did you expect?

Soon he will be dead and then we'll all revere him and regret these foolish ramblings...

-- Pepe la Pew (weewee@garlicmerchant.fr), March 17, 2002.

Thank you James.

-- David Smith (dssmith3@rmci.net), March 17, 2002.

But we will never forget that he once kicked his wife unconcious and was a truely nasty man.

-- Jackson (jacksonsmithe@drangoon.com), March 17, 2002.

Kristian,

Thank you for proving my point.

;-)

-- Lucien (lucien_vd@yahoo.fr), March 17, 2002.

Can anyone verify that he was convicted and spent time in prison for violent crimes (against his wife?), other than internment and escape from the Nazi POW camps?

-- Wilhelmn (wmitch3400@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.

Just another example of the "artist as monster". Miles Davis, Picasso, Frank Lloyd Wright, Orson Welles--none of them were nice people.

-- Luke Dunlap (luked@mail.utexas.edu), March 17, 2002.

Has anyone ever known a truly normal (whatever that means) "artiste"? They are different; it's part of their emotional and psychological composition that makes them artists. Cut HCB some slack; he probably isn't very nice to most people, but probably is to some. That doesn't concern me because I don't have to deal with him. I simply enjoy his work. Now if it were shown he had committed great crimes against humanity, that would be different; I would find it difficult to separate the man from his art.

-- Dennis Couvillion (couvilaw@aol.com), March 17, 2002.

I have also read (in a few places) that HCB was a Nazi himself,or at least collaborated with them(which is in fact worse).In 1943 he was sent to Paris to gather infomation on the resistance,he was also 'placed' in POW camps as an agent.I know what I have read and I know that there is no smoke without fire.

HCB should tell the truth to the world before he dies.

-- Jackson (jacksonsmithe@drangoon.com), March 17, 2002.

Now here is the 'net at its worst. Jackson - hopefully you can verify what you've said in your last post - otherwise it borders on slander, and if HCB's lawyers so it you'd probably get a call. It's really easy to say the old "I read it somewhere" - but I sure hope you've checked your facts thoughly. I read somewhere once that someone somewhere still has proof that the world is flat (really, someone has written that within the last 50 years). Well, I read it - it must be true.

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), March 17, 2002.

Hey! don't blame me.I found it hard to believe,but you know the world is a very imperfect place.

-- Jackson (jacksonsmithe@drangoon.com), March 17, 2002.

What is it with this thread?..it seems like flypaper for assholes: it brings them out. How can anyone write, "I read SOMEWHERE that HCB was a Nazi himself..." It is absolutely irresponsible to write something like that without a specific reference. It's the sign of an asshole.

A few months ago I read a biography of HCB (Assouline) that had no reference whatsoever to his being a Nazi sympathizer. On the contrary, given whathis politics were; it's inconceivable.

-- Mitch Alland (malland@mac.com), March 17, 2002.

"I read SOMEWHERE that HCB was a Nazi himself..."

Who wrote that? I didn't.

As usual you resort to insults.Why call me an asshole for writing something you don't want to hear?

-- Jackson (jacksonsmithe@drangoon.com), March 17, 2002.

JAckson:

>"I read SOMEWHERE that HCB was a Nazi himself..." > Who wrote that? I didn't.

You didn't write that? Here's the quote from your idiotic posting:

"I have also read (in a few places) that HCB was a Nazi himself,or at least collaborated with them(which is in fact worse)."

You mean someone is posting things in your name?

-- Mitch Alland (malland@mac.com), March 17, 2002.

Yes,I have read IN A FEW PLACES,not,I READ SOMEWHERE.

Do you see the difference? No? no,I don't think you do.......oh dear.

-- Jackson (jacksonsmithe@drangoon.com), March 17, 2002.

Yes, I can tell the difference. But just because you read it in a few places on the web -- or in print for that matter -- doesn't necessarily make it true. Would you care to give us the references?

-- Mitch Alland (malland@mac.com), March 17, 2002.

I think it may have been in the News of the world......or was it the Sport?.....no,I don't remember.sorry.

-- Jackson (jacksonsmithe@drangoon.com), March 17, 2002.

>I think it may have been in the News of the world......or was it the Sport?.....no,I don't remember.sorry.

I suggest that you don't post statements like the one about HCB being a Nazi unless you can substantiate them. Your "There's no smoke without fire" statment does not do credit to your intelligence either.

-- Mitch Alland (malland@mac.com), March 17, 2002.

I have also heard,now don't get me wrong,but the truth will out.....HCB was also a rampant homosexual.yep,a 'backdoor burgler'.

-- Jackson (jacksonsmithe@drangoon.com), March 17, 2002.

Jackson, you're also an asshole.

-- Richard (rvle@yahoo.com), March 17, 2002.

Is it little wonder that HCB is judged so harshly by this group, when the intellect and talent doing the judging is so mundane?

-- Glenn Travis (leicaddict@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.

Mmmmmm,oooooh,I don't think he's having a go at me alone?

-- Jackson (jacksonsmithe@drangoon.com), March 17, 2002.

Allen, I would keep my mouth shut if I was you, as your comments are not always favourably looked upon.

Lucien, what the hell are you talking about?

Everyone, let's leave this alone! Can't people have a difference of opinion without others flamming all the time. Maybe this forum is becomming "sad". And I am the first to admit that my comments aren't always perfect.

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.

let me tell you what Lucien is talking about. it is called racism. it seem to have started by your sense of humour, which I myself found harmless, but Lucien might have been ofended by, and mocking politically correctness is no racism. "But which type are you? " is already harder to interpret as a humorous remark, but your:"And learn how to speak english before making such useless comments." is impossible to interpret but as a racist claim. it shows the arrogance of some anglo-saxon people. I hear about them from my wife here in the US, which speaks, reads and writes 4 different language, but has the accent of a foreigner, which sounds to many here like the accent of Monkeys, I myself encounter it, rediculously enough, from american people that would not even dream of being addmitted to the american institution in which I am finishing my PHD at. like all types of racism, it goes against the facts, it is in their eyes, a defect, something that could have been a good reason to pitty them, unless they would have had such a reputation for carrying out, and in colaborating, with some of the historical events mentioned above. That is what Lucien is talking about. and sorry about the spelling mistakes. good you don't hear my accent. it is even worse.

-- rami (rg272@columbia.edu), March 17, 2002.

Tony, please delete this entire thread.

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), March 17, 2002.

To many of the above......

I'm sure there is a site somewhere out there where you can critique people who do the work, as opposed the the work itself.

Please find it.

Thanks,

Jerry

-- Jerome R. Pfile, Jr. (JerryPfile@msn.com), March 17, 2002.

Lucien, Rami.

Since when was French a 'race'? The French are people who were born, or, perhaps, live in France, and many who live elsewhere. They include people of very many 'races', Africans, Arabs, Caucasians among them. So having a dig at someone for characteristics assumed to be 'French' is not racism. It may be narrow-minded - it may conversely be true - but it is not 'racism'.

And, Tony, please do not delete this thread as you have others that have dared to attack the 'gods', or should I say, 'idols' of Leica.

But it will be interesting to see whether a thread that attacks HCB - and even calls him a nazi sympathiser and wife beater no less - lasts longer than one which dared to mock the sanctity of a certain Mr Erwin Puts!

-- Christopher Goodwin (christopher.goodwin@gte.net), March 18, 2002.

Good god, what a thread. And it stared so harmless!

Best wishes

-- K. G. WOLF (k.g.wolf@web.de), March 18, 2002.

Should have been: >started<

Good day

-- K. G. W. (k.g.wolf@web.de), March 18, 2002.

For once even i agree

-- Allen Herbert (allen1@btinternet.com), March 18, 2002.

Rami, if you were studying a PHD, I would've expected more from someone like you. An educated person who knows extensive knowledge about racists (suppossudly like me) should know not to accuse one of such, without validity from extensive and proven facts. The fact is that you don't know me, AND this forum is about HCB, not racists- like me?!

PS. I don't believe I am racist. I also don't believe my actions imply so either. The end.

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.

Oh and Rami, I don't have a problem with Lucien. I have enjoyed his comments in the past, just not this time. No harm one, just a little conflict that's all. I also thinnk you are wrong about what Lucien was talking about. Misinterpretation is a killer on this forum and gets to the best of us at times. Let's put this shit behind us shall we. Now, THE END.

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.

To hell with race. Let's talk about CLASS, instead, and have some meaningful fun!HCB was heir to one of France's largest silk textile fortunes.He never wanted for money or the leisure it bought.Upper class twit? Maybe.

-- Gary Watson (cg.watson@sympatico.ca), March 18, 2002.

Kristian, I think your comment to Lucien about learning english was very rude. and it reminded me of a type of attitude, as I mentioned, which I find very racist. on second though, however, it might be simply a rude remark, still, very rude. after all this is an international forum, and people that are not native english speakers lack a privilege of english speakers, even if they speak and write 20 other language (many americans speas a single language, which is a very rear phenomena in any other part of the world I know).and your other comment: "what type are you?" I don't know, if not racist then just pointless. however, as I said before, your initial remarks I did not take to be rude and definitelly not racist. I though you were making some fun of a politically correct atmosphere, and I found your comments quite ammusing, and I could also relate to your comment that if your apology is now sufficient, then that the best you can do. If I have what to appologize about then I am. however, if I understood your comment about my PHD, (I anderstand that you doubt what I say) I don't think it is of any importance to anyone, but you since I use my "real" email address, with today technology it should take you no more than 30 second to get my exact identity on my university website...

-- rami (rg272@columbia.edu), March 18, 2002.

Rami

This HCB thing is been set up by a bunch of college boys,hunched over a Computer to wind Leica users up.Some have got taken in by it (including me)Why do they do it ,for fun,as they have stated.Kris and Luc simply have been taken in.I have read their other posts,and to judge from that i would consider them okay people.We all get silly at times...do not take it personnel.They say some remarks about me,as their views differ.But so what it adds to the group and a bit of banter does no harm.However i do think the students are over the top,but in time they hopefully will grow out of it.

Best regards Allen(good luck in your studies)

-- Allen Herbert (allen1@btinternet.com), March 18, 2002.

Ok,I made it all up.Harry Cosgrove-Brown isn't a nazi or a homosexual and I don't think he ever gave his wife a fine beating.

BUT,what a fine debate did ensue!

May I offer my full and whole-hearted apologies to Harry....and may I say that I hope the VD clears up soon.

-- Jackson (jacksonsmithe@drangoon.com), March 18, 2002.

And I thought only French were a very arrogant tribe.

We must have spead it to the other tribes, in a package with "le bon gout".

HCB is an old folk with very peculiar opinions.

Have a Nice Day (in french: Bien le Bonjour)

Xavier d'Alfort

-- Xavier d'Alfort (hot_billexf@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.

First and foremost,HCB is French.That denotes a whole unique culture and civilisation.Were it not for Wellington and his Prusasian lackeys,most of the world would now be speaking french.HCB is a remarkeable artist,a product of this great nation. In a world gone mad with technology,the sheer audacity of travelling the world with a few cameras and some lenses goes against the grain and advertisers and marketeers.How can anyone judge this artist if one is NOT french!Its like those photographers who have never used a Leica and say all those dumb things,but at least not hate.Hate is sad. The French and HCB are not rude.They are simply blunt and forthright. My late mom was Parisian.You barely qualify as French if not born in Paris.With all Her French faults,pride,nationalism,abruptness,short sympathy to stupidity based on Her rules,i was lucky to have this insight to the French character.HCB on the tv programmes i saw,was polite,nice and TALL.i read once how he yelled at a prospective assosciate of Magnum,as the man brought finished prints not contact sheets as directed.His work is art.He has defined a manner of work and a body of images that are our shared history. In the end,the photographs speak for themselves. i dislike most of my own work including award winning photos, I always hope to do better.Seems HCB feels same... i been privileged to meet a few Magnum photographers,also other top pros like Eisie.None were arrogant or brutish.A side note.Famous Lady photographer once pushed in to the path of an antique car,while we were shooting a rally....she really did'nt care if i was killed or injured.On shoots with the Magnum guys,the press here in Canada, Africa and Europe,on the whole really nice folks.... lets not breed rumors and be a hate site! HCB could never be a Nazi.He is Buddist,was married to an Asian lady and lived amongst some of the poorest people in the world.

-- jason gold (leeu72@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.

Do not encourage them,silence is golden.Goodbye lads, the fun is over.

-- Allen Herbert (allen1@btinternet.com), March 18, 2002.

Wow! I have never seen so much misinformation/disinformation in one thread! :-) Where are people getting all this HCB data from? The X- Files? :-)

-- Muhammad Chishty (applemac97@aol.com), March 18, 2002.

thanks allen, you are right. let me add that I have learned myself allot, being new to the Leica world from all of the active members in the forum, including Kristian and Lucien and many others. In general I try not to comment when I have nothing to add, or to ask. This time I did, and I believe I did because I appreciate the contribution of Kristian. (and also because I sit in my appartment waiting for fedex for my new 135APO and 50 cron, so I have time to read all the threads...). clearly Kristian's remark was not as bad as many of the comments made in this particular thread. maybe that is why I reacted to it. Kristian, just one additional thing. You said I don't know you. that is true. but obviously I reacted to your remarks, not to you. and to accuse you of anything on that basis is definitelly poorly grounded. If it is not clear that I have apologized for that above, so I do again.

-- rami (rg272@columbia.edu), March 18, 2002.

Rami, apology accepted, but not required. It's all just fun and games. Challenging each other is just part of life. If we can't make it to the olympics, we may as well do it some other way. :)

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.

There was an artist whom I have admired and studied for years - Degas. Also French like HCB. Also accused for being rude and distant. Always upsetting his fellow-artist - however, they always recognized his talent and his work, he was the best draughtsman of the last 100 years. We all react to these level of artists through our own filters and how we envision them is based on the impression that we may have of their art. I love Degas, and yes - he could have a sharp tounge, he could hurt and as I read his biographies there are things that I don't agree with. But, he doesn't ask me to take him on those terms, his life was his work and it is through the work that I see him. We always want our heros to be or do things that will only make us admire them more, but they are flesh and blood, HCB is no exception, let's see the work and let HCB take care of his own personality, we have our own to deal with, only he knows what demons he has had to deal with, I wonder how many of us would manage being told we are the most of this or that as he has, could we remain humble? and than there is the age issue, 94 can change you a bit. If he is an arrogant man well... that is his choice, I don't have to like it or live with it, I'm to worried about me - and I keep myself too busy with me. Good luck.

John

-- John Hernandez (tepito@pacbell.net), March 19, 2002.