Now that Leica is offering their Digilux 1 digital camera, the next logical product development is to utilize their existing lens from their M and/or R lines. An interchangeable lens system would be much more desirable for serious photographers rather than using a zoom lens with questionable pedigree (OEM Canon lens shared by Panasonic, Sony-Carl Zeiss, Casio and G2 – see other web site on this matter).

In order for Leica and for that matter companies like Rollie and Hasselblad survive in this competitive market place, they need to exploit their current line-up. If you were able to complement a digital M-body with a M6/M7 system, wouldn't this be a potent combination? Whatfs more, a rangefinder digital system would indeed be unique in the world of modified SLRfs. If funding is a problem, Leica should look towards finding a business partner in developing such a system.

As a side bar, if you look at the rate Cosina-Voigtlander introduces their product every year, itfs only a matter of time that they see the potential market opportunity and introduce an M-mount digital body. This would definitely threaten Leicafs market-share. Some have mentioned about the size of the sensor

I believe the market is there and ready. It's up to Leica to demonstrate their leadership!!!

Hmmm... Something to ponder about. Leica are you listening?

-- Thomas Nakajima (a_nakajima@attglobal.net), March 13, 2002

Answers

For Leica to come out with an exceptionally executed digital M body would be a long shot. I agree in theory it sounds like a good thing, but how would they build something that wouldn't be a bulky beast if it need to include a standard rangefinder set up and a full frame pickup with all the other stuff you need in a digital camera: Memory storage, big batteries, LCD screen, tons of buttons, etc. I also think of the reliabilty of such a complicated beast, and the costs as well. How many people would line up for a $5000 M body that made the M5 look like a compact? I think they would lose money. I think the R cameras would be most likely to go digital if any of their products did. They could source out an SLR body from one of the Japanese manufacturers,(Nikon, Canon, etc) and add a few special features and an R mount.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), March 13, 2002.

I wouldn't hold my breath Thomas. Both Canon and Nikon admit they don't actually make money on thier pro digitals (D1/1d). Pentax has shelved there plans for a digital SLR. Contax has been threatening for months now but at PMA all they had was a non-working dummy. Remember, Canon makes lots of money selling copiers, computers, cameras and a host of other things, as does Nikon. Kyrocera (Contax) makes LNG container ships for cryin' out loud. How anyone can expect Leica to anty up when they're barely holding on now financially is beyond me.

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), March 13, 2002.

Why since it's not a problem for Sony to produce tiny pocket-sized 3+ MP cameras can't Leica do a Leica digital-M? Leica can make money, they have a customer base that forks over the cash!

-- James (snodoggydogg@hotmail.com), March 13, 2002.

Does no one here understand economics? If I had Sony's money I could produce a digital camera tomorrow. LEICA DOESN'T HAVE SONY'S MONEY. Worldwide (adding up stereo, all electronics, entertainment, etc), Sony probably writes off more dollars in a year due to internal 'shrink' then Leica makes.

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), March 13, 2002.

Yep! M8 8MP Digital. Same size as M6 (OK, I'll accept same size as M6TTL/M7) Where do I sign up?

-- MikeP (mike996@optonline.net), March 13, 2002.

Hahaha 3rd party CCD, co-development/adaptation. Understand?

-- James (snodoggydogg@hotmail.com), March 13, 2002.

Thomas

This question comes up ad nauseam every week. Check out some older threads. Personally, I can wait. Digital cameras offer little to the slide shooter who likes to project images (no digital system can do that with any degree of quality). Just get a good film scanner and stop worrying. I expect Leica are listening, but don't want to destroy the company by reckless digital investments. Unlike the big guys they cannot afford to waste money by the bucketload on cameras that depreciate instantly on production. Leica will wait until it has settled down and in the meantime keep their foot in the water with some digital collaborations. If they survive this approach, then we will have some kind of digital M or R one day.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), March 13, 2002.

Why since it's not a problem for Sony to produce tiny pocket- sized 3+ MP cameras can't Leica do a Leica digital-M?

please remember that the reason why Sony is able to do this is because the CCD is smaller than the 35mm frame. if Leica is going to make a digital M, it has to be full-frame and nothing less...IMHO

-- Dexter Legaspi (dalegaspi@hotmail.com), March 13, 2002.

...CCD is a lot less smaller than 35mm frame...

-- Dexter Legaspi (dalegaspi@hotmail.com), March 13, 2002.

Most are, but the Contax CCD (which has yet to come out) is full- frame, yo.

-- James (snodoggydogg@hotmail.com), March 13, 2002.

I agree with Robin Smith, get a decent film scanner. It will be a long time before digital cameras can produce 120mb files (scanner size from 35mm film) so why waste time dreaming about using your high resolution Leica lenses on a low resolution body. Get a Nikon or Canon if you want digital so badly.

-- Steve Barnett (barnet@globalnet.co.uk), March 13, 2002.

Here is a possible solution to your post. Try www.siliconfilm.com. Their product is not made for Leica primarily because they do not believe the demand is there. If they got enough interest maybe it would change their mind.

-- Richard Hoag (wpcdallas@aol.com), March 13, 2002.

I haven't dropped in for a few days, but as Robin Smith hinted, seems like I've read a different verse of this same thread before. Then I've got to respect Mike Dixon's reponse to a similarly redundant thread regarding the M7...

Interesting to read Bob Todrick's comments on the profitability of digital cameras for their manufacturers. I've long suspected the R&D cost for a camera model with a market life of a few months before someone else comes out with a more megapixel model has got to be eating the camera maker's lunches right down to the crumbs. Puts them in the position of not really being able to afford to make a digital camera for the present, but not being able to not make one for possible future market share.

Then this week I read a newspaper article in a business section of a newspaper. They quoted the typical figures -- digital camera sales dollars are up, twice as many households have digital cameras as last year, film camera numbers sales still exceed digital but dropped last year, sixty percent of US households have a personal computer... all the numbers that advocates claim as proof that digital will replace film cameras in two to five years. This was from a market research firm (Forrest, I believe). But then they ended the article with a figure I've never seen quoted before, which considering the source is probably quite credible. They catagorize 49% of US households as "technology pessimists" which they consider unlikely to buy even a digital point & shoot camera anytime soon. How many of that 49% would purchase a manual Leica I don't know. But since these are among the folks the camera makers DO pay attention to, kind of explains why they're still introducing new film cameras.

-- Tod Hart (tghart@altavista.com), March 13, 2002.

Don't hold your breath. I doubt Leica will ever develop such a camera. There simply isn't any money in it for them; at best such a camera would interest only a small percentage of those photographers already committed to Leica M-cameras and lenses which is itself a very small market. The broader consumer market doesn't register the name of Leica at all other than as an obscure brand other than the ones commonly seen at the Ritz camera shop (or Wolf or Best Buy). Like Sony, Panasonic is trying to draw interest to its higher end digital cameras with the Leica name. In a way, this is good, and I hope the cameras sell well. What might even be better is if Matsushita Ltd. bought the Leica Camera Company.

-- Chris Henry (henryjc@concentric.net), March 13, 2002.

Check out the Leica Digital Forum on Leica's web site and you will see very similar requests.

First, an all-digital M series is more than feasible. It does not have to change its shape at all. There are a couple of items to "work out" but they are not insurmountable.

I can tell you that I have had a very responsive and very interesting exchange with Leica Technical on this "M Digital" opportunity and all that this could mean for users and Leica.

Phil Allsopp

-- Phil Allsopp (pallsopp42@attbi.com), March 13, 2002.

I also would gobble up a Digital M. Not for the camera, but instead for the use of the lenses. Digital needs better glass to perform at optimal levels ( what doesn't ?). The 6 meg chip to be used in the Contax ND is the Phillips version that's been around for some time ( used in 3X3 and 4X4 Medium Format backs). Developments by Fovan and the Canon CMOS breakthroughs are going to drive down the price of very good 3rd party capture chips. Just look at what Kodak has accomplished. This month they launch a 48 meg, 4x4, totally self-contained back for Contax and Mamiya applications retailing for under $12,000.! So, how much do you think those other theathered 16meg backs are going to suddenly reduced to? Leica only needs patience. The technology will present itself. And we will be able to better utilize the investment in the optics we already own. On our traditional bodies and a digital one.

-- Marc Williams (mwilliams111313MI@comcast.com), March 14, 2002.

I think we're missing the point here. Not only Leica doesn't have the money for this venture, the outcome will not be profitable. Why? Leica Ms are made for simplicity. The man behind the camera wants full manual mechancial control with it. If M goes digital, you will need all the latest stuff ie LCD, Media reader/writer, interfaces to PC, bluetooth etc just to compete with those available in the market. Would a Leica M user go for it? Not me, I ditched Nikon, Canons and Contaxes' electronics for Leica.

-- Greg (greg_choong@yahoo.com), March 20, 2002.