New and Improved INS under Dumbya lowers their IQ to his level

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INS Approved Hijackers' Visas

Tue Mar 12, 7:02 PM ET

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Florida flight school where two Sept. 11 hijackers had trained received belated, formal notification this week that the Immigration and Naturalization Service had approved the men's requests for student visas.

Huffman Aviation received the paperwork acknowledging the INS approvals for Mohamed Atta, 33, of Egypt and Marwan Al-Shehhi, 23, of the United Arab Emirates.

Atta and Al-Shehhi trained at Huffman in Venice, Fla., in July 2000, and were aboard separate flights that struck the towers of the World Trade Center. The two initially entered the United States on visitor's visas but applied for an M-1 student visa, given to immigrants attending technical schools in the United States.

A spokesman for the immigration service, Russ Bergeron, said the INS already had notified the men and the school last summer about the approvals and described the paperwork Huffman received this week as "backup notification." The INS approved Atta's request in July 2000 and Al-Shehhi's request the following month, Bergeron said.

Bergeron attributed the embarrassing delay in a backlog of documents at a federal paperwork processing center in London, Ky. "Because of a backlog of data entry, materials are just now arriving at the school," he said

But John Conyers, the top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee (news - web sites), said the notification was a sign of Bush administration's "misguided focus in pursuit of homeland security."

"I am astonished that while the INS is fixated on detaining and rounding up countless Arab-Americans without any justification, it has failed to take basic steps to ensure that visas are not issued to known terrorists," said Conyers, D-Mich.

U.S. authorities believe Atta was aboard American Airlines Flight 11, which struck the north tower of the World Trade Center, and that Al-Shehhi was aboard United Airlines Flight 175, which struck the south tower 17 minutes later.

-- (duuuuuh@real.smart), March 13, 2002

Answers

Unfrickinbelievable.

-- (good job @ homeland. security), March 13, 2002.

Dead 9-11 Terror Suspects Get Visas Wed Mar 13, 5:29 AM ET

By ADRIAN SAINZ, Associated Press Writer

MIAMI (AP) - When envelopes of routine government paperwork arrived at Huffman Aviation school, the names on the forms immediately stuck out: Mohamed Atta and Marwan Al-Shehhi.

Those men are believed to have been two of the hijackers of the two jetliners that slammed into the World Trade Center in New York on Sept. 11, killing almost 3,000 people.

The paperwork that arrived in the mail on Monday the six-month anniversary of the attacks contained both men's student visa approval forms from the Immigration and Naturalization Service.

Russ Bergeron, an immigration agency spokesman, attributed the embarrassing delay to a backlog of documents at a federal paperwork processing center in London, Ky.

He described the paperwork as "backup notification." He said the INS had already notified the men and the school last summer about the approvals.

Atta and Al-Shehhi trained at Huffman in Venice, Fla., in 2000 and early 2001, and were aboard the separate flights that struck the trade center towers.

The two initially entered the United States on visitor's visas but applied for M-1 student visas, given to immigrants attending technical schools in the United States. Foreign students are generally allowed to study in the United States as long as they apply for student visas, said Russ Bergeron, a spokesman for the immigration service.

The INS approved Atta's request in July 2001 and Al-Shehhi's request the following month, Bergeron said.

"The important thing to recognize is the decisions to change their status were made ... before Sept. 11, and at the time there was no information made available to INS regarding these people and their link to terrorism," Bergeron said.

But Rep. John Conyers (news), the top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee (news - web sites), said the notification was a sign of the Bush administration's "misguided focus in pursuit of homeland security."

"I am astonished that while the INS is fixated on detaining and rounding up countless Arab-Americans without any justification, it has failed to take basic steps to ensure that visas are not issued to known terrorists," said Conyers, D-Mich.

Atta and Al-Shehhi were cleared to stay in the United States until Oct. 1, 2001, according to the forms, which were provided to The Associated Press by Rudi Dekkers, owner and president of the flight school.

"When they hit the buildings they were approved to be here," Dekkers said.

U.S. authorities believe Atta, 33, was aboard American Airlines Flight 11, which struck the north tower of the trade center, and that Al-Shehhi, 23, was aboard United Airlines Flight 175, which struck the south tower 17 minutes later.

Dekkers said Atta and Al-Shehhi completed the paperwork on Aug. 29, 2000, just before they began their six-month flight instruction program at the school.

The forms, filled out by an assistant at Huffman, indicated that both men met the English language requirements to study at the school. Atta listed his nationality as Egyptian, while Al-Shehhi said he was from United Arab Emirates.

On the form, Atta's name is spelled "Mohomed." The documents indicated the academic term lasting up to 12 months would cost $27,300.

Both men studied at the Technical University in Hamburg, Germany, received pilot training at Huffman and practiced their flying on a Boeing 727 flight simulator in the Miami suburb of Opa-locka.

-- (nice@going.dumbya), March 13, 2002.


Bureaucracy rulz!

-- (roland@hatemail.com), March 13, 2002.

WANT A NATIONAL ID? Remember, it will be administered by the same people who just approved Mohammed Atta's application to go to flight school. Just last week. No, really.

Your tax dollars at work, folks.

-- (Glenn Reynolds@instapundit.com), March 13, 2002.


"Your tax dollars at work, folks."

Let's see if I can parse this. Is this guy thinking that it isn't a function of government to control immigration or to grant visas? No. He wouldn't be that silly, would he? Would he be thinking that the INS has a backlog of visa paperwork because it is so lavishly funded that the visas get lost under mounds and mounds of loose paper money floating around the INS office? Maybe... but no, that would be pretty silly, too.

Could he have forgotten that Americans have been systematically deriding "bureaucrats" for the past two decades, loudly demanding that these insects be starved of tax dollars, and attempting top vote for any politician who promises to administer a good whipping to the slugs? No. He sounds too much like one of the chorus.

Could he be disguising, under the color of sarcasm, his true opinion that the most probable reason these bureaucrats haven't kept up with their paperwork is because the INS has been asked to do more and more, while simultaneously being given too damn few of those "tax dollars at work", to do any better than this? Not likely, I admit. But it's a nice thought anyway.

-- Little Nipper (canis@minor.net), March 13, 2002.



Wonder if they issued a visa to Bin Laden too.

-- (welcome@to.america), March 13, 2002.

I heard Our Leader's voice on the radio stating that the INS needed to separate its paperwork duties from its law enforcement.

Will the law enforcement arm of the INS start arresting people before the warrants are issued? Will people sit in jail for seven months waiting for the clearance paperwork to arrive?

-- helen (times@too.interesting), March 13, 2002.


Yes to both questions Helen. Rest assured, if it is possible to screw things up, Dumbya is just the guy to make it happen.

-- ("make NO mistake @ about. it"), March 13, 2002.

LN is right. We need to pay the bureaucrats more money. We need more rules, more regs, more complicated IRS chicken-shit (is everyone enjoying their 1040s?). Yes, we need more DMVs. Those poor civil servants, so underpaid, so traumatized by their sinecures.

A simple temporary fix for INS?---A five year freeze on all immigration.

-- (lars@indy.net), March 14, 2002.


"We need to pay the bureaucrats more money. We need more rules, more regs, more complicated IRS chicken-shit (is everyone enjoying their 1040s?). Yes, we need more DMVs. Those poor civil servants, so underpaid, so traumatized by their sinecures."

Hey, no way Jose! We're not givin them peasants a raise! They're just commoners, they got no edjkayshun! We need to give more tax cuts ta big corporashuns so that my buddies who are only making $65 million a year can at least get up to $300 million a year!

"A simple temporary fix for INS?---A five year freeze on all immigration."

Naaaw, that ain't gonna work either. We need them immigrants cuz they is cheap labor for my friends corporashuns. The hell with minimum wage, them peasants will work for beans! If theys too stupid to work at the corporashuns we can use 'em to replace the burrocrats after we fire 'em for wantin a raise!

-- Dubya (I got it figured out @ not open. for debate), March 14, 2002.



"burrocrats"! That's pretty good. That nails it in triplicate.

-- (lars@indy.net), March 14, 2002.

Lars, you write a lot of damn fool nonsense, but I love you.

Who said anything about paying INS employees more - besides you, I mean? I say, if you ask people to do a job, you have to give them the tools to succeed.

If there is a year's backlog of paperwork, you could believe that people who work for the government are uniformly godawful, lazy slugs. But that is just wishful thinking, Lars. People who work for the government are just like people who work everywhere else - no lazier and no more energetic.

The chances are high that the INS has gone too long without making capital improvements and hasn't got the tools, the manpower, or the procedures to do any better. Put a good worker in a badly structured, poorly equipped position, and they'll produce mediocre work. Put a mediocre worker into that same position and they'll do really bad work. Take a gifted manager and ask them to complete a project with half the budget they need and no control over the processes used and they'll look like a crappy manager.

When you assess the ultimate responsibility for a corporation's results, you look eventually to the CEO and the Board of Directors. In this case, that means the President, the Congress and the electorate. If one INS employee does crappy work amid a general sea of competance, it is clearly that employee's fault. If the INS is doing crappy work as a whole, the logical conclusion is it's the voting public (as the Board of Directors) who bears much of the blame.

When I look at the voting public, what do I see? That's easy. I see a forest of finger-pointing, with nobody pointing at themselves. It's always the other guy who's to blame. That's what Glenn Reynolds was doing. You, too, Lars. Ain't no flies on you guys, no sir!

-- Little Nipper (canis@minor.net), March 14, 2002.


Very well said, LN. I'm in your corner.

-- (LadyVi56@hotmail.com), March 15, 2002.

LN,

My remarks above were a trifle cynical (but you are a self-described cynic, so I know you'll understand). I'm sure there are many dedicated, hard working public "servants". There may even be a few on this board (You may be one. My impression is that Maria works at the Pentagon. Cherri was in the Air Force? Flint may be at NASA, or one of its private subcontractors. Anita has been a public school teachur. My ex-wife was a public HS math teachur). If I have offended anyone, I apologize (sort of).

Thing is, bureaucracies are bureaucracies. They are inefficient, overly structured by nature. Bureaucrats may work very hard but often their jobs are unproductive or counterproductive by design. And, let's face it---not all bureaucrats work to the max. What is the incentive to work productively when promotions are not based on merit? What is the incentive to work at all when you cannot be fired for anything less than "going postal"?

I have some personal experience with bureaucracy. I worked for the world's largest private bureaurocracy, GM (at least it was at the time I was there). There was much personal empire building going on. The Corp was so large that an individual related much more to his/her personal success than to the Corp's.

I am not so Libertarian that I am anti-government by reflex. I believe government is essential. Without it there is anarchy. I am as much a Tory Conservative as Libertarian Conservatve. IMO, Hamilton was more correct than Jefferson, at least for a modern world.

But only a fool (and you are certainly not that) is not constantly on guard for runaway government growth. That is its nature. It is a Parkinson's Law of Nature.

I do not know or care why the INS screwed up in this pathetic way. My gut tells me the INS was just cranking along doing its inefficient preprogrammed thang (which included some folks who worked very hard at doing this innefficient preprogrammed thang). The good people at IRS are the same breed.

What frosts my testes is that the Liberal knee-jerk reaction to any malfunction in government procedures is to claim that they were underfunded. Public Education is the classic erxample.

-- (lars@indy.net), March 16, 2002.


Very well said, LN. I'm in your corner.

-- (LadyVi56@hotmail.com), March 15, 2002.

LadyVi56--

I am sorely hurt by your choice of corners. Based on your response to a remark of mine in a previous thread, I thought you were in my corner.

If you are 56, I'm betting that the callow LN is too young for a lady. You might want to consider visiting my corner. It is richly textured in maturity and on Saturday nights I break out the Merlot, stoke a warm, glowing fire and play tasty CDs on my All-American Japanese stereo. Often, acolytes stop by to sit worshipfully at my feet.

Please consider my corner. I will put a necktie on the doorknob which is my way of telling the acolytes to buzz off.

-- (lars@indy.net), March 16, 2002.



Don't believe this one, Vi: I will put a necktie on the doorknob which is my way of telling the acolytes to buzz off.

Lars is famous for backing up naked into doorknobs. If he has something hanging from one, I don't think it's a signal to anyone else but himself. :-)

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), March 16, 2002.


LOL Anita

-- (lars@indy.necktie), March 16, 2002.

INS Shakeup Follows Criticism over Terrorists' Visas, Washington Post Mar 16, 2002

-- (lars@indy.net), March 16, 2002.

"What frosts my testes is that the Liberal knee-jerk reaction to any malfunction in government procedures is to claim that they were underfunded."

LOL! Let me see if I got this straight...

Dubya appoints Tom Ridge as Director of Homeland Security and funds him with $$Billions of taxpayer dollars to scrutinize and remedy every ailing aspect of our domestic security, including the approval of visas by the INS. Despite the tremendous amount of taxpayer money at his disposal, Ridge has failed to make any improvements whatsoever, yet Dubya is asking Congress for $$Billions more of our money to let this clown do with as he pleases (Anyone who has heard the endless "Fleecing of America" reports on NBC News doesn't need too much imagination to figure out where our money is going).

Democrats in Congress have said that before they give Dubya the exorbitant amounts of money he wants, they'd like to know the game plan, as in what the money will be spent on. They've also called Tom Ridge to testify before them and explain where all this money is going, since it definitely has not done much to help the INS visa approval system. Tom Ridge refuses to explain any of it, basically using the same argument that Cheney uses to avoid explaining the corruption involved in the formulation of our national energy plan.

Then comes Lars, a typical scumbag Repug, who rather than hold the responsible parties accountable, tries to blame it on "liberals"!!!????

ROTFLMAO!!! UN-FRICKING-BELIEVABLE!!

-- BWAHAHAHAAA! (GIVE ME @ FUCKIN. BREAK!!), March 16, 2002.


Who will the Dems run for president next time?

-- helen (gonna@vote.my.tax.dollars.where.I.want.em), March 16, 2002.

"Anyone who has heard the endless "Fleecing of America" reports on NBC News doesn't need too much imagination to figure out where our money is going

A major intellectual reference. LOL.

-- (lars@indy.net), March 16, 2002.


How would you know anything about intellect, disgusting Repug?

-- (get@lost.ignoramus), March 16, 2002.

Easy, I work at it. Try it some time, nameless one.

-- (lars@indy.net), March 16, 2002.

The "Fleecing of America" reports by Ted Brokaw on the NBC Nightly News are based on FACT gathered by a lot of hard investigative work. Whether or not an ignorant snob like yourself considers this an "intellectual" reference is completely irrelevant. In other words, your opinion means nothing. Nice try at changing the subject though, since you can't deal with the truth without trying to blame "liberals" for all of your problems.

-- (you@disgust.me), March 17, 2002.

Make that Tom Brokaw.

-- (one@small.mistake), March 17, 2002.

Ted/Tom/Tim whatever. Who gives a shit, you scum sucking, filthy pug pig?

-- (Dumbya@destroying.our nation), March 17, 2002.

Lars--

What can I say? Just call me fickle.

As for the age, I'm not quite as old as you suppose; nevertheless, I've always been attracted to an older man. Besides, who can resist a glowing fire, good music, and great wine? Your corner sounds more appealing all the time. ;-)

-- (LadyVi56@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.


Oh god, get a room!

Wait, that's what you were suggesting. Never mind.

-- (forg@et.it), March 17, 2002.


Oh hold your shorts on, Forget. Lars just caught me in a "nixie" mood. Another man is far from what I need right now. Take a chill.

-- (LadyVi56@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.

"Another man is far from what I need right now."

Wow, you said a mouthful LadyVi!

-- (Algernon C. Braithewait III@Cambridge.MA), March 18, 2002.


Lars is famous for backing up naked into doorknobs.

LOL Anita, I had forgotten about that. Now what kind of door knob works best. I imagine those with the levers that push down don't work at all. You know this might be a whole new industry for an up and coming (eh hm) business. Did Lars discuss the options for this?

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), March 19, 2002.


Yes Maria, it is the round ones that I fear. Cold round ones. My wife videoed a hairraising encounter. I was in therapy for years.

-- (lars@indy.net), March 19, 2002.

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