Anybody found a way to make a double exposure with an M6 ?

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I'd like to be able to do a pre-flash for some pictures with very wide brightness range, but I find it impossible with the M6. Did I miss something ?

-- Stephane Bosman (stephane.bosman@yahoo.co.uk), March 11, 2002

Answers

You could try pushing the rewind lever down, and advancing the film while holding the rewind knob. This technique works (though not guaranteed acurately) with some manual SLR's that do not have intentional double exposure arrangements. I haven't tried it myself on an M camera, and I would advise you not to force anything. Good luck.

-- sait (akkirman@clear.net.nz), March 11, 2002.

Sorry, cancel my earlier message. It does not work. When you want to re-cock the shutter, this action pushes the rewind lever back up.

-- sait (akkirman@clear.net.nz), March 11, 2002.

If as you say in your second sentence you are simply trying to set the flash off but not *actually* take a second exposure then on my M4- P with a Metz through the X socket the flash is triggered regardless of whether the camera is wound or not - I suspect the same for the M6

If however you are trying to create a true double exposure on one frame there is a way but I believe it can damage the mechanics of the winding gear and is not recommended.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), March 11, 2002.


Hello Stephane. On older M's it was suggested to hold the lever rewind down while advancing the wind on for the second exposure.It was also suggested that no damage ensued to the camera.But believe me,that terrible grating sound when winding on was not worth it.I would not suggest this technique on your M6. Regards.

-- Sheridan Zantis (albada60@hotmail.com), March 11, 2002.

Stephane:

Yes, very simple.

M6, 2700-4000 DPI scanner, Photoshop, Layers. Much more controlable than in-camera MEs.

Sorry to say that but.... The future was here yeserday.

Cheers

-- RICHARD ILOMAKI (richardjx@hotmail.com), March 11, 2002.



Pre- flashing is (obviously) better suited to sheet film cameras. Maybe you should try a film better suited to the brightness range your working with such as Pan F or Tech Pan.

-- Steve Wiley (wiley@accesshub.net), March 11, 2002.

Stephane;

Further thoughts.

The "dynamic range" of many films is far greater than the range of paper-both B&W and Colour.

In B&W you could overexpose and underdevelop or use softer paper/filters or dodge/burn in. Pre-flashing is mostly just a cure for an ill of older papers and films.

I recall seeing an ad in Scientific American Kodak ran on Plus X, saying it had a range of 60 decibels, that is 1 000 000:1. Nine Zones is a lot less than that. Filters can successfully adjust contrast range, specially graded NDs.

G'Bye again.

-- RICHARD ILOMAKI (richardjx@hotmail.com), March 11, 2002.


The only M camera you can use for double exposures is the M5. The easiest Leica camera to do double exposures with is a LTM camera. You just have to keep cocking the shutter using the shutter speed dial.

WITH ANY OTHER M, DO NOT ADVANCE THE FILM WHILE HOLDING DOWN THE REWIND LEVER. THIS DAMAGES GEARS IN THE WIND MECH.

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), March 11, 2002.


The only way I know to do it "in-camera":

  1. Advance film and burn one blank shot before image.
  2. Advance film for initial exposure.
  3. Tighten rewind crank sungly and note precise position of handle.
  4. Take initial exposure.
  5. Flip rewind lever and rewind film so the handle lines up to same position as noted in step 3.
  6. Advance film normally and make second exposure on frame.
  7. Advance film to burn another blank shot after image.

BUT, this method will not precisely register the film for items in that second shot.

:-),

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), March 11, 2002.


Thanks for your contributions.

Photoshop is not an option. Digital processing is fine for colour, I use it myself, but for B&W, the printing stage is not satisfying and the whole process is, for me, much slower then what I do in my darkroom.

Concerning the brightness range of different films, including Tech Pan, let's suppose by correctly over-exposing and under-developping I can manage to fit the 10 zones, which I do, actually.

Last Sunday, I was facing a subject where I had 12 stops between what I wanted to be in zone I and what I wanted in zone IX. The only way to record than on the neg is to compress the range, and if it is not on the neg, it won't be on the paper, digital processing or not.

The place I was when facing the problem (the cellar of an old factory with some sun rays coming in) is not the place I fancy to explore with a view camera :)

So, pre-flash is clearly the only way, since you can't, in 35mm develop N-2 just for one picture.

Oh well, I've bidded for an M5 on ebay :-)

-- Stephane Bosman (stephane.bosman@2ci.net), March 11, 2002.



Tech Pan souped in POTA developer can produce more than ten stops. You could also pull the film out of the cannister, hang it on the wall, and flash the entire roll at once, pre- or post- exposure.

-- Steve Wiley (wiley@accesshub.net), March 11, 2002.

On pre-flashing with a Leica:

I recently saw an article (Web or LHSA Viewfinder) on a one-off M4 modified for a mid-70s technique that installed little 'grain-of-wheat' light bulbs in the front of the film chamber that provided 'simultaneous' flashing during exposure. It also requires a baseplate battery pack for the bulbs. If you're willing to pay the one-off collectors price...

Alternative 2. Since the pre-flash is essentially just veiling flare - use lenses that do this inherently - 35 f/1.4 pre-ASPH, 90 tele-elmarit (on occasion), 50 Summar.

Alternative 3. have someone modify a Contax G1/G2 to M mount (They multiple expose on demand) - and scale focus - it's probably cheaper than the modified M4. Or hope for a Hexar RF II that includes a multi- exposure control.

The problem with the 'rewind' technique is that 1 turn of the rewind crank will rewind more film early in the roll, and less film near frame 36 - since the length of film rewound is proportional to the diameter of the cassette spool PLUS the thickness of film already wrapped around it.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), March 11, 2002.


On pre-flashing with a Leica:

I recently saw an article (Web or LHSA Viewfinder) on a one-off M4 modified for a mid-70s technique that installed little 'grain-of-wheat' light bulbs in the front of the film chamber that provided 'simultaneous' flashing during exposure. It also requires a baseplate battery pack for the bulbs. If you're willing to pay the one-off collectors price...

Alternative 2. Since the pre-flash is essentially just veiling flare - use lenses that do this inherently - 35 f/1.4 pre-ASPH, 90 tele-elmarit (on occasion), 50 Summar.

Alternative 3. have someone modify a Contax G1/G2 to M mount (They multiple expose on demand) - and scale focus - it's probably cheaper than the modified M4. Or hope for a Hexar RF II that includes a multi- exposure control.

The problem with the 'rewind' technique is that 1 turn of the rewind crank will rewind more film early in the roll, and less film near frame 36 - since the length of film rewound is proportional to the diameter of the cassette spool PLUS the thickness of film already wrapped around it.

This technique does work, sometimes, with the original Nikon F, because there's a dot on the rotating shutter button connected to the toothed wind sprocket that DOES turn exactly once for every 8 sprocket holes - or one frame.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), March 11, 2002.


Take two pics on suceeding frames. Place both negatives in enlarger, open up the stop on the enlarger lens, - Bingo a double exposure.

-- Tony Brookes (gdz00@lineone.net), March 12, 2002.

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