Religion! What is it good for?greenspun.com : LUSENET : Unk's Troll-free Private Saloon : One Thread
-- Absolutely nuthin! (synonymous @ with. War), March 10, 2002
Let's see, Communists are atheists, so they never kill anyone, right?
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org love), March 10, 2002.
"communists are atheists"??
-- lol (earth to moron @ come in. moron), March 10, 2002.
Re "communists are atheists?"
Well, yes, moron. At least if they follow the teachings of Karl Marx.
-- Peter Errington (email@example.com), March 10, 2002.
Careful Peter, talking to vegetables can give you a headache.
-- Send (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 10, 2002.
Lets all convert to Islam and then we'll see the beauty in the above photo.
-- bogsworth (email@example.com), March 10, 2002.
"earth to moron",
Grasshopper, you tax my indriyaparopariyattanana
-- (Buddha@Dharma.tree), March 11, 2002.
"Religion is the opiate of the masses"
-- (Roland@hatemail.com), March 11, 2002.
If communists are all atheists, then how come the Catholic religion is becoming so popular in China?
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 11, 2002.
To "marx is dead":
Communist regimes have tolerated state-run denominations, and I do mean strictly state-run. In China's case, if one wishes to practice any independent religion, such as we enjoy, one must do it in secret (or run the risk of death or torture).
There has been some variation. In Poland, for example, the Catholic Church was so powerful that the Communist government never dared bring it as completely under its heel as elsewhere.
-- Peter Errington (email@example.com), March 11, 2002.
I agree, religion is good for absolutely nothing. All it does is teach people to hate those who are not in their religion, thus leading to wars as we see in the middle east.
-- religion is very ignorant (very stupid @ very. barbaric), March 11, 2002.
-- (teaching children @ to. kill), March 11, 2002.
In China's case, if one wishes to practice any independent religion, such as we enjoy, one must do it in secret (or run the risk of death or torture).
I don't think this is the case in China anymore, Peter. I enjoyed dinner at the house of friends last weekend who'd spent about three months recently in China and they indicated that Muslim was the religion of most growth there at this time. Christianity holds a popular second.
In fact, viewing scores of pictures taken at homes of Chinese residents, I couldn't say that there's a huge difference in lifestyle between here and there. Our houses tend to be larger. Their kitchens tend to be smaller, but their cooking pots tend to be MUCH larger. Comparing THEIR experience to that of a supervisor I had who took a trip about 15 years ago reflected MASSIVE change.
-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), March 12, 2002.
Anita, regarding my comment about torture and death, I had in mind the current treatment of the Falun Gong (sp?) which as I understand it is an inoffensive offshoot of Buddhism.
Regarding Islam and Christianity, I strongly suspect (don't know for certain) that the top people, bishops and such, of the religions that can operate openly, are compliant people installed by the State.
-- Peter Errington (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 12, 2002.
Peter, you miss the point. It's the size of the cooking pots, the fucking cooking pots, I tell ya.
-- (email@example.com), March 12, 2002.
It's actually pretty handy Azolutely. No doubt to me that religion is a net postitive for preventing and ameliorating deadly human conflict. The other edge is top of the ratings right now but then ugly, minority behavior usually is. Guess it's one of those you'd have to be there things in order to appreciate.
-- Carlos (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 12, 2002.
Peter: I'll ask my friends their opinion on that. I don't know how deeply they got involved with the religious angle on their trip, but I do know that they traveled totally unencumbered and were free to take pictures ANYWHERE. This is a far cry from what my supervisor experienced on his trip 15 years ago.
Lars: Yeah, those big pots caught my eye. The beauty of China did, as well. The male partner of these friends is a professor of Archaelogy at UTA and took a sabbatical to do field work in China during this trip. We have this image of China as a backwards country under severe oppression from their government. It just doesn't match the experience of my friends, nor does it match the pictures they showed me. [Think it's all a communist conspiracy?] LOL.
-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), March 13, 2002.
What I don't know about China would fill many LARGE pots. Maybe China is a humane place now. Maybe. But as recently as 1989, the government was massacring students in T Square; as recently as 1966 students were massacring citizens while waving Chairman Mao's Little Red Book during the "Cultural" revolution; as recently as 1956, millions died because of the economic disasters wrought by Mao's "Great Leap Forward"; as recently as_______? Communist China raped Tibet. Does anyone know or care? (well, gee whiz, we all know how warm and fuzzy the Dalai Lama is)
Indeed the 20th century is the century of mass-murder and genocide that flowed from utopian totalitarian experiments like USSR, Nazi Germany, Communist China and Communist Cambodia. I don't include Japan because I think its atrocities were driven more by good old fashioned Nationalism/Imperialism than by ideology.
I can think of none of the 20th century mega-atrocities that were religious based. Can anyone? I am willing to be convinced.
The 21st century may be a different story unless the jihadis "get religion".
-- (email@example.com), March 14, 2002.
Anita, you have a friend who spends a few months in a country and there you have it.
"In fact, viewing scores of pictures taken at homes of Chinese residents, I couldn't say that there's a huge difference in lifestyle between here and there." Hmmm seeing pictures of houses gives one insight into the lifestyle. Did you know that women can *not* own a home in China? If they have any brothers, the brothers will inherit the house and the sister is forced to move out. Foreign men cannot marry a Chinese woman and expect to live in China; the couple must live in another country. Did you see that from those pictures? China is a very oppressive country and you indicate that based on your friends pictures, everything is peachy keen.
-- Maria (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 14, 2002.
Hey this thread is about religion. Start your own damn thread about China.
-- (email@example.com), March 14, 2002.
The rigid, inflexible mind cannot tolerate thread drift
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 14, 2002.
I'd have to agree with Peter. China wants to appear open to religion, but only if the religious leaders are puppets of the state. Why else would we constantly read about the imprisonment of independent religious leaders?
Anita, do you have any pictures of these cooking pots?
-- bogsworth (email@example.com), March 15, 2002.
I'm trying to keep a mental note of this to ask my friends about the RELIGIOUS angle. I really DID try to keep the thread on track with religion. Those pots just REALLY amazed me. I don't know why...maybe because they seemed to dwarf everything around them.
My friends know [and I have met once or twice] a man who teaches Archaelogy at the University of Beijing. I can't remember his name. It's one of those 4-letter names, both first and last, one syllable each. You know what I mean...like Jung Chon or something. He spent some time with my friends on his sabbatical to the states, including a little time with us when we visited for dinner. Nice fellow. My friends in return spent some time with him and his family while in Beijing.
Steve: All the pictures were taken with a camera that would load them to the PC. If you're REALLY interested, I can ask for a copy of one of the ones with the huge cooking pots. I'm not sure where I'd put it for posting, however.
Regarding the ownership of homes, etc., Maria, Texas has some pretty goofy laws regarding that, as well.
When I get more info, I'll start another thread on China that includes religion and cooking pots.
-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), March 16, 2002.
The largest cooking pot I have ever seen was at a cannibal picnic in Borneo. That long-pig be lip-smackin good!
-- (Pots R Us@Borneo.barby.Q), March 16, 2002.
Religions in China Today
-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.