Hello everyone,

This isn't particularly Leica-specific, but since I've noticed a lot of darkroom junkies here, I thought I'd ask anyhow. I do my own developing of B&W film and printing, shooting mostly Ilford HP5+ and developing them with D-76 developer. I've always used D-76 straight, but on occasion I do mix it up 1:1 just for the hell of it. I'm a little hard pressed to find any difference between 1:0 and 1:1, but then again I haven't done any direct comparisons between the two in a controlled test environment. Can anyone provide me with a general guide as to what grain/tonal etc. differences I should expect? Thanks in advance!

-- Badris (badris@mac.com), March 09, 2002

Answers

If you use it 1:1 you can throw it out after you use it, and rest assured that you're doing something more consistent, yet reltaively (2X)economical--well, that's the way I looked at it when I switched from straight to 1:1, anyway. :-)

-- Michael Darnton (mdarnton@hotmail.com), March 09, 2002.

Badris:

D76 1:1 is slightly lower contrast, but finer grained by a little. Ditto on the throw away and consistency aspect of 1:1.

-- Mark (logical1@catholic.org), March 09, 2002.

Michael, Mark, thanks for the answers guys. I have a follow-up question. What exactly do you mean by the 'consistency aspect' of developing it 1:1?

-- Badris (badris@mac.com), March 09, 2002.

Dilute it, it's fresh, use it once, throw it away--it's the same every time. Though you don't have to use it this way, the usual way people use the stuff straight is to use it over and over, increasing the developing time with each additional roll. Though you can achieve the same overall density that way, the tonal component of the negatives change as the developer becomes progressively exhausted and development by-products built up.

-- Michael Darnton (mdarnton@hotmail.com), March 09, 2002.

Anchell and Troop indicate that, like other solvent developers, using D-76 at 1:1 will improve sharpness, but actually increases graininess somewhat. This is because the solvent (sodium sulfite) gets diluted along with the rest of the chemical constituents. With the reduced solvent action, the remaining grain size is larger, but with cleaner edge boundaries.

Another benefit with the 1:1 dilution is an improvement in highlight latitude, while the film speed in the shadows is retained.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), March 09, 2002.

Some of the above is inaccurate. Bob is correct. The dilution to 1:1 reduces/negates the solvent efffect, increasing sharpness/acutance but with the corresponding result of grain being slightly increased. All things being equal, film speed will be very slightly increased, and contrast reduced. Of course, 1:1 is one shot, and you'll need to adjust times.

-- Steve Jones (stephenjjones@btopenworld.com), March 10, 2002.

Odd this question should come up right now. With none of the local stores stocking Agfa APX films I've been trying some 100 speed alternatives.

Anything I say below also relates to 400 speed films.

Also I want to say that I accept that 35mm film is grainy, and I love 400 film and all it can do. 400 is nearly all I use and I feel that for sharp prints you need sharp grain not softened grain. Large print or small I want sharp prints.

To have all this money wrapped up into very $$$$ lens that can resolve fine detail like no other and to then develope the film, even 400 film that does of course give up something to slower films in a developer that "smears" those fine details is a choice you make. I chose sharp developers.

Just this weekend I did some tests with Ilford Delta 100 in 2 developers. One was Rodinal, the king of sharp grain, and also Ifords own ID-11 (same as D-76). There are many other developers but I chose 2 I know very well.

Rated at 100 I did some test of full tonal range scenes in bright sun and overcast. I used a M and a 35mm 'lux ASPH for all shots. I shot mostly at F4-8

As expected the Rodinal 1:50 at 68F is screaming sharp, the negs just "sing" and the films holds very fine minute details. This is what Rodinal does best. The ID-11/D-76 at 1:1 dilution is very good, smooth and very fine grained. The grain is finer (less difined edges) than the Rodinal but the images are not as sharp appearing. Notice I say appearing as in a blow up the grain would be less noticable in the D-76 neg but the print would lack some sharpness.

But there are details in the ID-11 negs that got "smudged" that are dead on clear and sharp in the Rodinal. Letters on a plaque at a memorial, fine hardware and turnbuckels on sailboat rigging and the ends of tree branches are so detailed on the Rodinal negs. None of these have the "snap" with the ID-11. And I didn't expect them to. I think Puts refers to this as microcontrast in his tests.

Rodinal has none of the chemicals that redeposit developed silver back on the edges of the remaining grains. That is how fine grain developers work. With Rodinal the grains you get are the grains that were put on the emulsion without any alteration.

D-76 is a wonderful product and I always use it diluted, you can even go 1:3. Diltuing the D-76 does as was always said, reduces the Sulfites and lessens the softening of the edges of the grain. The extra grain that results is not objectionable in any way, it is still a fine grain developer and very good.

Microdol is the biggest offender in softening the edges and ought to be used 1:3 if at all. Grainless clear skys but no detail I think.

I love HC100 for Tri-X. Less softening than diluted D-76, easy to mix one shot (1oz to 31ozs water and off you go) . Good sharp grain. Develope for about 6mins at 68F with a normally exposed Tri-X. Kodak says I think 7.5 mins and that is too long.

And then there is Rodinal. One shot at anywhere from 1:25 to 1:75 for Tri-X. Rodinal digs deep and brings out subtle details in clothes, beards, rocks trees etc. Dilution changes the effect. You will see a sharper print from a Rodinal neg than from D-76 as soon as 5x7 I've found. Grain isn't seen at 5x7 but the extra sharpness is.

Rodinal isn't for everybody and I use it mostly with the 100 speed films. For Tri-X it is HC100.

In order to see the shapes/sizes of the grain you need either a BIG print or the neg in an enlarger with a good grain magnifier. To see teh difference in overall neg sharpnes a light box and good loupe will do.

-- Neil Swanson (neilsphoto@yahoo.com), March 10, 2002.