hm, 1st roll disappointing

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Picked up the first roll I shot w/ the new M6 today from the lab. And it was far below my expectations. The photos were grainy and had too much contrast. I'm pretty sure the lab used some type of filter, because the blacks are too dark and show no sign of details (whereas the negative per se does) lack of grey tones are significant. Many photos were taken indoors a slow shutter, but I didn't expect them to be this grainy and non sharp.

The film I used was Ilford HP5 (ISO 400), the lab develops their own b&w, using tmax developer. I'm strongly suspecting that the lab did a really poor job. Unfortunately I, or anyone of my photo friends, have not found a good b&w lab here in the DC Metro area. (and they charged $24 to develop a 36 exp. roll)

I know it will take some time to learn shooting Leica rangefinders, but still it somewhat of a shock when all your photos comes out short of expectations (still there were some keepers because of nice subject and DOF)

cheers,

patrick

-- pat (modlabs@yahoo.com), March 07, 2002

Answers

Do it yourself!!!! Learn how to develop in a tank with Rodinal 1:40 correctly and you'll develop a roll of 36 for less than $1 in materials. Its not hard... and the cost of a "rudimentary" B&W darkroom will pay for itself in no time if you do volume B&W. Its fun too!

-- John (ouroboros_2001@yahoo.com), March 07, 2002.

Good answer. 1Develope your own.Its easy and cheap.Rodinal my favorite but suggest easier to use Kodak D-76 and Tri-X.I love HP5 but truly find that Kodak films easier to process.HP5 is not recommended in Rodinal.High grain and bad results.I use Agfa films and they're magic in Rodinal. 2.Shoot some Color-Negative,esp Fuji's new 800 iso,rated at 500~650,in available lite.Have glossy 4x6 proofs.Pick the best and have printed larger to 8x12 or more...POSTER. Then you'll see what its all about!.I prefer color negative as i get prints.All films and developers are standard,NOT professional.I do not use pro-films even for jobs. 3.Shoot a slide film.Get out the best magnifier.Stand in awe. 4.Leicas are what photographers with technical knowlege and artistic skills step up to.There is a learning curve.This aint push the button.This is work...but fun!Better luck in future. My 1st roll in my then brand new M3 in '66 made me change my whole way of doing photography!It was also one of the last times I carried a heavy gadget bag on my own shootings.Pro change took a lil longer. Tday i sometimes do a whole assignment with one body,M6/M3 and a 50mm I need a 28 or 35 sometimes but do not want any distortion,so the 50 is it!Leica lenses have the least distortions of any lens and the famous "roundness" or 3-D effect.

-- jason gold (leeu72@hotmail.com), March 07, 2002.

There's no substitute for doing it yourself, but if you don't like grain, don't use Rodinal.

-- Dave Jenkins (djphoto@vol.com), March 08, 2002.

The word "good" and the phrase "black & white lab" have never, in my experience, been put together sucessfully. Develop your film yourself, in your kitchen sink, if necessary. Your total outlay for tank, reels, chemicals, etc. will be less than $200. Then get a decent scanner and printer and be lab-free!

-- Peter Hughes (ravenart@pacbell.net), March 08, 2002.

I have never had a roll of B&W film D&P'd at a lab, even the custom ones, that I have been happy with. I use the C41 developed B&W on the rare occasion I shoot it, and have had better luck that way.

Shoot a roll of slides with the camera if you want to see what it is capable of.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), March 08, 2002.



Every lab I've been to just doesn't care about BW material all that much. Maybe they figure that all serious people do their own.

I'm doing my own, then scanning.

-- Charles (cbarcellona@telocity.com), March 09, 2002.


"Shoot a roll of slides with the camera if you want to see what it is capable of."

Or, if you want to see what _you_ are capable of - a more interesting question.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), March 09, 2002.


It has been said here many times before and I have to agree with everyone above - B+W must be printed by yourself unless you can find a good pro lab who will understand your needs. This will undoubtly cost a lot and at home with modest equipment you can easily rival the pro's as you have time - and you're not paying for their's!

The C41 (XP-2 Super) route is the one to go - easy processing at ANY lab and print at home on standard multigrade b+w paper.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), March 09, 2002.


Where I work we outlab all our B&W to a large facility that bill themselves as doing, among other things - custom B&W. A couple of years back I got a tour of the place and found out that their idea of custom was = 'lessee, we have a couple rolls of Tri-X, 3 Plus X some HP5, a dozen T-Max. Dev times in Tmax dev all between 4.5 and 0 minutes so we'll run it all together at 7 minutes'. This is a true story. Now I realize that there are lots of quality labs out there with volume enough to do it properly, but I bet that there are lots that don't get a lot of B&W and there is no way they are going to seperately develop 2 rolls of this and a roll of that - they all go in for a average time. DO IT YOURSELF.

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), March 09, 2002.

Sorry, above should read 'dev times between 4.5 and 10 minutes'.

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo. com), March 09, 2002.


Hi Patrick,

Unfortunately the DC area doesn't have a great B/W lab. Chrome in Georgetown is okay. They're not going to be any cheaper than $24, though.

You can complain and refuse to pay if you feel your photos were ruined (sounds like to me) and just don't take any crap from them...sounds like they screwed up or they don't know what they're doing. Tell 'em!

-- Carlin (carlinm@abac.com), March 09, 2002.


What lab was this? I routinely use Chrome & National Geographic in the District & occasionally use the Black & White Custom Lab in Arlington & I've never had an experience as bad as yours (also, since I have a scanner, I usually just have contact sheets made & that brings the cost down to around $13-15). I have found that different labs do a better job w/different emulsions (not surprising since they tend to use only a limited range of chemistry).

BTW, you say that photos suck, but what about the negatives (you do say that they have detail that the photos don't)? If it's merely a printing problem, I would definitely 2nd Carlin's suggestion that you get the prints redone.

-- Chris Chen (Washington, DC) (furcafe@cris.com), March 09, 2002.


I suggest you try Ilford XP2 Super. Because it is processed in colour labs being chromogenic you get all the advantages of cheap and ubiquitous C41 processing labs. Give it a try - it has a full range of tones and is virtually grainless.

-- Tony Brookes (gdz00@lineone.net), March 09, 2002.

I used to use a lab in Chicago that was originally started to deal with the problem that there was no good lab in Chicago. After about a year of them processing B&W for me of archival record shots which were shot in EXACTLY the same situation with EXACTLY the same lighting, I realized that what was happening was that at a certain time of the month they changed their solutions, and the results were great, and then, through the month, results went d o w n h i l l gradually, until at the end of the month the results were just complete #$%^. Then back to good again.

I was doing all my own printing (that was a job they never got right, even though the subject never changed) and when I switched to doing my own film processing my printing time cut to 1/3 of what it had been when I'd been dealing with their #$%^ negs.

Moral of the story: if you're doing B&W, do it yourself. (By the way, with color they were only about 20% better. Usually the third time I sent stuff back they got it sort of close to right, more or less, give or take a bit.)

-- Michael Darnton (mdarnton@hotmail.com), March 09, 2002.


I've tried Penn and Photo-Pro in DC, but that was before my Leica days. The one I tried this time was ACE Photo (actually Sterling, VA, closeish to my job) I'll have to try Chrome since I live in G- town.

Btw, the negative has plenty of more details than the photos. Unfortunately there is no space for a lab in my house

-- pat (modlabs@yahoo.com), March 09, 2002.



Sounds like a printing problem to me--you should definitely go back w/your negatives & prints & demand that they redo them.

-- Chris Chen (furcafe@cris.com), March 10, 2002.

Of course, graininess and overly-high contrast are caused by film exposure and development techniques and have NOTHING to do with the camera. You could've shot those pics with your Japanese SLRs and had the same results. So don't be disappointed in the Leica.

-- Douglas Kinnear (douglas.kinnear@colostate.edu), March 13, 2002.

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