"It boys"

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This is being argued about elsewhere in a round about sort of way, but it's true, we always have to have someone who is "it".

Barton has been the great standby but is no longer available for selection as "It". Since the beginning of YBR's first season, it has been:

Barton - No pace, poor distribution, poor passing, rabbit caught in headlights Acuna/Bassedas - Just not good enough for the EPL. South American therefore not committed. Solano - Inconsistent. Doesn't get stuck in. Not fast enough for the EPL. Dabizas - Panic stricken and slow. Hughes - Not commanding enough at CH, not a natural fullback. Speed - Well, he's just Speed. Shearer - Past it, not a good captain. Elliott - Might be a Geordie but he's shite.

It is currently Robert.

Anyway, the question is, why do we have to pick on individuals. The truth is that last season, the whole team was so depleted that picking on individuals was grossly unfair. This season, they have done far better than expected and we are pointing the finger at indivuduals. Why? Is it because we need to think that only one player is making us poor? Are we just plain nasty?

Thoughts?

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

Answers

Well, I'm just plain nasty if that helps

Thing is, some of those criticisms are fair. Add the fact that you have managed to name 10 players who have drawn varying levels of criticism over the last couple of months I hope says that we don't generally pick on an individual. Accept Barton, who was around so long that he gathered a head of steam with criticisms years back! And a lot of it was also justified.

If individuals are being singled out for criticism then it's because we are demanding better performances, and this season has perhaps been the best barrometer yet in distinguishing good teams from great teams. We are good, but not great. Unless we win the league then we'll be f**king great! :-)

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002


That should read "Except Barton" - too late to accept him now :-D

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

I've never understood this approach either Dougal. And I I think can lay hand on heart and say "Not Guilty".

I'm surprised at the vitriol directed at Robert recently. I don't think he's playing as well as expected but then I also think that we'll get nowhere by abusing the player. He is a class act as he has demonstrated for us. As his manager I would want to be getting at the reasons for the dip in form - is he happy?, are there problems with the role he is asked to perform?, is he homesick? is it too cold? - or is it just an unexplained bad patch that he needs to work through? etc etc. Certainly directing abuse at the player is useless. Constructively criticise by all means but abuse is counter- productive. This is not a private forum, it is sometimes quoted in newspapers, so don't think that what anyone writes here has no way of getting back to the players.

The player I've been most disappointed with this season has been Elliot. I've said as much several times but always in a constructive way and also expressing the hope that he recovers the form he showed for us during his first stay here. He is a local lad we would all love to succeed, many of us have seen him attending Toon matches as a fan so we know his heart is in the right place.

I was always especially angry to see abuse directed at Barton, a player who more than almost any other I've seen, epitomises what we all want in a player in terms of attitude and commitment. It's surely OK to criticise the ability or form of a player but abuse is not on. If a player is picked whose sheer ability is not up to the mark, then it is the manager who should draw the most criticism.

You mention one or two others. Another I'd add to your list is Lua*2 who seems to be attracting ever more dismissive remarks on here. The guy has only played a few 20 minute periods, has never had a settled run or a settled role in the team but has shown examples of what he can do with some very important assists for us earlier in the season.

Criticise by all means but do it constructively and support the lads. Those suffering a loss of form will respond better to encouragement than abuse I'm sure. And where they are not good enough, it is for the coaching staff to address problems or the manager to ship them out. We will not help, indeed we will hinder, with abuse.



-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

What's wrong with telling it like you see it ? I mean it isn't as if we've singled out Robert on only one crap showing.

He's underachieved just about from the off.

And there's no guarantee whatever that he'll do a Pires in about 6 months time.

He simply doesn't look that interested. I'm not saying we should be giving him a hard time, but it's bloody frustrating when you know he can do a lot better.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002


I think it's a natural reaction of people to look for a scapegoat. Far easier to blame problems on one person than work out the reality of more complex reasons.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002


There will always be a rank order in any team, with positions at the top and bottom of the list determined by a number of criteria, not least of which are skill, passion, committment and workrate. The players at the margin will be castigated until they either improve or leave. It's human nature (ask Darwin) that we kick the poor sods on the bottom. Also justified, because we/any club are seeking constant improvement. Two weeks ago I was still defending Robert. Now I would prefer to give Bernard a start and sub him later for Robert. Nothing personal, it's just that I/we think more of the club than we do the individuals in it, especially if they've decided to have a 'lazy twat' month.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

The majority of people on here want us to succeed. They inevitably identify what they believe to be the biggest single issue hindering us at any given time and focus on that, often to the exlcusion of other factors.

Let's not forget this is a discussion forum and people should indee feel free to tell it like they see it - personally, I don't believe it has any direct impact whatosever on the players or the Club.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002


I wasn't talking specifically about this site. I don't believe it is routinely viewed by NUFC staff and players although Alan Oliver probably reads it. If they do alight upon it, then they should declare themselves or accept the fate of any eavesdropper. What I was talking about was the reactions on the terraces and things that end up in fanzines etc. We KNOW that Robert has been getting abuse at SJP; we know that Barton has got abuse consistently; we know that any number of our players have had spells of getting abuse. The criticism on here is normally reasoned whereas at SJP, it's very much of "the get f....g stuck in you poof" variety.

In fairness, with the exception of Hamman, none of the players we have recently criticised has gone on to do much better than they were doing with us. However, we do have this tendency to treat people like Gods on arrival (cf. Lua Lua) and slag them off pretty much consistently thereafter. Craig Bellamy has probably done it the right way - got all the abuse before he kicked a ball, now he has bollox of pure platinum.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002


PS. A classic example of the unfair barracking of one individual was the home game against Troyes when Barton had a minging game and got booed by more than 50% of the crowd while the other ten players who had had equally minging games got no reaction at all.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

Lat night was the first occasion that I directed criticism of Robert and from the other comments it is obvious I am far from being alone. In my time I have seen some laid back footballers but this one takes the cake. The only time he seems to get excited is when someone has a go at him. I just feel that at 9.mill we have the right to expect much better performances than he has been giving. When did he last have a really good game?

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002


The last time he had a matchwinning game was away to Spurs.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

The first posting here is exactly what I was getting at with my post in the post mortem thread.(anymore posts and we'll have a fence).

One single player doesn't make or break a team. We were crap across the board, apart from The Best Keeper In England (tm) Shay Given.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002


dougal, he had a blinder against Spurs but ONLY after YBR 'rested' him in the first half. Maybe he just needs a good kick up the arse before he'll put in a peformance.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

I've generally defended Robert but last night seemed awful.

However I hate to see players being "picked on" by fans, being made scapegoats for the defeats.

Fair enough on here, but at a match, publicly booing a player can NEVER help the team in any way. Take Barton last season in the Troyes game. Loads of arseholes around me started booing him because one bloke started it off. Would these people criticise WB to his face, say on a radio phone in, or are they just hiding behind the collective face of 50,000?

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002


I do get quite annoyed by the (as Dougal puts it) the "get stuck in yer poof" brigade.

They are the sort that cheer as loud as they can for a tackle that gives the other team a throw in but shows that the player isn't bothered if he breaks his leg or not.

On the other hand, someone will try an ambitious pass and it goes close but doesn't come off, and they get jeered and cursed.

I have no problem with criticism when it is reasoned, but shouting at someone because they made a single mistake isn't on. (This is at a tangent from the Robert situation, who has made a few more mistakes than one recently).

Another thing that gets right on me wick is when players are abused for missing a shot. If Shearer misses a shot, his name is shouted loud and he is made more of a hero. I have no problem with that, give the lad credit for trying. However, if Gary Speed misses a shot, but tries his best, he'll get, "aw man, f*ck off you sheepshagger that was sh*t". Just an observation.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002



I like to think that I usually give credit where credit is due, and hold back on the negative stuff. However, in order to give a balanced view on last night`s match, Robert, I`m afraid, had to come into the equation, and I felt that he was found lacking.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

I'd agree with that Galaxy, although I thought in the second half he was better than he was for the whole of the Arsenal PL game.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

There is an argument that people pay good money and can therefore complain during a match if what they are being served up isn't good. This, to my mind, is all grist to those who believe that we are consumers or spectators rather than supporters. What I do think is that it can't possibly be helpful. No one works at an optimum when being criticised.

After the home game against Southampton last season, most of the ground booed and I'll admit that I quietly said "boo" more to myself than to anyone else. I still feel a bit ashamed that I did it (although the person who called me a Makem twat when I confessed to this on here still hasn't been to a game this season as far as I know) although they actually played better in the next game and rose to a win on the last day of the season. So who knows?

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002


Fans always look at how to make the team better. If you look at any football message board it will be the same. "I think we should sign..." "We should sell ..."

It's natural to want your team to improve. So if that means selling your right back then so be it. No matter how good a squad is the fans can always think of a way to improve it. With us so far, it's been Barton and now Robert. I don't think it's nasty to say we should play someone else or sell them.

However it is always unacceptable to boo a player in black and white and I was ashamed to be at the Troyes match in which it happened to Barton. I am proud to say I've never taken part in any "booing" unless it's been directed at the Ref which in some cases is acceptable.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002


But has Robert been booed yet? I've heard jeers when he loses the ball, but I've heard that for most players.

With Robert it is more frustrating for me than anything else. We all know he has the talent from his previous performances. It's not like Pires who never performed like Robert (at the Riverside, Spurs away, Arsenal away, Chelsea away, Bolton away) in his first season here. Arsenal fans were wondering why the hell he was bought, but didn't boo him. It's all turned out nicely for them now.

Although Pires' improvement doesn't necessarily mean Robert will improve in a similar way, it does suggest that players adapt over time. Nobby never used to come back. When he did, he was sh*te at tackling anyway so it was pointless. Now he comes back and tackles pretty well, gets stuck in and puts his 9 stone of pure strength to good use. This has taken him over 2 years to get the hang of.

Maybe Robert lacks the stamina needed to run around like Bellamy. Maybe he needs to work on his fitness.

-- Anonymous, March 09, 2002


Jim, of course it's nasty: our season tickets don't buy us a right to select a team, they give us a right to support whatever team is out on the pitch. £400 doesn't pay much towards Alan Shearer's wages you know.

-- Anonymous, March 09, 2002

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