Well, I supposed I asked for it!

I wasn't reacting at all to your post Softie - in fact, I've also been saying on other posts recently that I believe AS is dead on his feet, and desperately in need of a rest.

In fact, to be perfectly honest, if I was picking the team for Saturday I definitely wouldn't play him. I happen to believe it is far more important that he is fit and able to operate effectively - as opposed to just turning out - in the remainder of our PL games. Why?

* I believe CL qualification is more important to the Club's future than progressing in the FAC right now.

* if AS isn't fit and fresh enough to the biz in scoring goals then no one else is capable of doing it, including CB.

* if AS is fit/fresh, and scoring a few goals, there will be far less temptation to rush CB back into action - potentially jeopardising his entire career. We've done this before, and imo will do it again.

* without a midfield, I suspect Arsenal will knock us out anyway.

I was reacting to suggestions that AS is somehow responsible for Laurent Robert's disappointing performances. This is, of course, utter b/s - but it seems he's fair game to be blamed for anyone else's failings, as we've seen several times before. Clearly he must be the only man in a Club perpetually full of mice.

Dougal - I would have hoped you would realise that I actually don't defend Shearer blindly. I realise he has his faults, and also that he is no longer the player that he was. However, he seems fair game for any kind of criticism, deserved and undeserved. I'm quite prepared to criticise him when I feel he deserves it, but will seek to defend him when it's unfair or unreasonable.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

Clarky, I didn't mean to suggest that you didn't see Shearer's faults (although reading what I wrote, it did come across like that) but you did, to me, seem to be piling it back on Robert. Personally, I think that there are problems with Robert and the rest of the squad but equally, I'm not sure why we have to blame Robert for not fitting in. Is anyone inviting him round for supper? Are the wives taking his wife out when they go shopping? We just don't know.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

I suspect the truth is some combination of all of the above. Softie has probably come closest saying it's a team game. Look at the best sides...they play as a team. Top players are rotated all the time. They may not like it, but that's life at the top. Bobby has done wonders building a team spirit this season, but there's still alot of work to be done. I suspect our younger players and those who've never really been 'stars' understand this already. It's up to Bobby to help the rest understand this.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

PS. Clarky, I think what people were trying to say is that we are blaming Robert when we don't score despite the fact that he has put any number of decent balls in which suggests that the blame can be more evenly distributed.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

Without re-reading all the threads, I'm not sure people are blaming Robert for the recent defeats, or the lack of goals dougal. Indeed, he was being criticised even when we were winning!

Toon fans are pretty forgiving: however, what they will not tolerate are "hang-dogs", players who don't give total committment, players who shirk hard work and physical effort, players who drop their shoulders when things don't do their way.

I reckon the fans have been surprisingly tolerant with Laurent Robert. They understand he needs time to settle in, to adjust to the fierce physical demands of the PL before he can regale us with his silky skills and finishing power. All they want in the meantime is his committment, a work ethic to match his team-mates when, like last night and last Satuday, they were working their nuts off - even if it doesn't always come off for him.

The problem that is gradually gaining momentum, is that he does not demonstrate the same committment as the others, he doesn't always work for the team, he doesn't always show for his team-mates - and unless this changes soon it is entirely inevitable that he will become an outcast, with or without any withering glances from Alan Shearer.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

PS: I still believe LR is an exceptionally talented footballer, and like Softie, believe he knocks in some wonderful crosses each and every game. He can also beat people at will, has genuine pace and a wonderful striker of the ball.

However, in recent games he has shown an alarming propensity for giving the ball away, often in dangerous places, and a lack of responsibility for trying to get it back.

Despite knocking in 4 or 5 terrific crosses/FK's last night I thought overall he was a liability to the team.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

Since I started this - I'll finish it! I always try to give players the benefit of the doubt but IMO Robert's performances have been patchy at best. Last few games we have needed him to put in good performances as he is the only fit player who can be a match winner and who has pace. I am certain BR has impressed this upon him.

Last night however, I finally lost faith with him. We were attacking the goal, a loose ball rolled toward the corner flag - he should have chased it and put it back in the box or won a throw in/corner off the defender. Instead he just strolled towards it, allowing a Liverpool defender to get to it first and get control of the ball yet again.

This for me summed up his game last night. Nobby ran and ran, tackled, headed and got stuck in. His opposite number just did not look bothered.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

...Amen!

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

I agree about Nobby, Lynda, but he has been here for several seasons and has been criticised for lack of tackling etc until the past eight weeks.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

a word on shearer.

if you have a video of the arsenal match, watch it tonight.

3rd minute (or so) shola makes a nice diagonal run and puts a low cross in in spite of pressure from a defender. shearer is in the middle but peels away to the back post, the cross is intecepted by the defender.

analysis: a young hungry striker (shearer circa 1996) would have hammered for the front post position. an old tired striker (shearer crica now) drifts back and hopes for a defensive error.

as i watched that on satda i thought "he's finished"

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

Shearer's not finished! Just lacking support but I accept he shouldn't play every game. We don't really have anyone else do we? Shola needs to improve and Cort is just coming back. It would be good to get some rotation of good strikers going.

Dougal - it's true re Nobby/Robert. Nobby got loads of stick until this season really.

Clarky - you have to have the last word don't you?!!!!!

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

I have started a few anti-Robert posts on here throughout the season. They were not straight after defeats. Even when we've won I have come out the ground wondering how the hell he was getting a place in our first team. I said about 3 months ago that I thought the only reason Robert was still starting after so many terrible performances was that he cost us 12 million. If Robert had come on a free I really don't think he'd have a place on the squad. If Bernard had cost us 12 million he'd start every week. I don't think BR wants to accept that this signing has been a massive failure, so he continues to play him. I am not criticising BR for buying Robert, as managers need to take risks and it certainly paid off with Bellamy and Jenas. But I really think he needs to look at Robert as a player.

NOT at his reputation NOT at what we think he could do on a good day But at what he is doing in the 90 minutes.

And for me since the start of this season (excluding Chelsea away) He has been terrible.

He has a terrible attitude. I pointed this out months ago. I watched him let an opposing player walk past him and put a cross in just because he thought he was a striker not a defender. He never tackles back or tries to win the ball. So obviously this p*sses me off but it isn't just his attitude. I don't rate him at all. I remember hearing from BR that LR would excite the Newcastle fans. From this I expected a winger who would get the ball in the last 1/3rd, take on at least 1 player and put the ball into the box. He hardly ever tries this. I thought like every1 else that he was capible of it but wasn't bothering for some reason, but now I wonder wether he Is infact capible of it.

Here is a statement that should really make you think about Roberts ability.

That 1 run from jenas last night where he took on those 2 Liverpool players and then got fouled by Heskey was better than any piece of individual skill I have EVER seen from Robert throughout the season.

Does everyone agree with this?

I would not compare any other player to Jenas just because of 1 bit of skill but we bought Robert to do this and he simply doesn't.

So I don't think he has the ability.

When Robert gets the ball on the left I expect him to loose it, or pass it back to whoever he got it from. Why do I expect this? Because this is all we have seen from him all season! When Ginola gets the ball in the same position (EVEN NOW in his old age) I expect him to do somethig, to create, to take out a few players with a clever backheel or a run down the left and a cross. When the ball goes to Robert I feel our attack is over.

I read on other posts that Robert put some great balls into the box last night. I can remember one cross from Robert and a few free kicks.

So Basically I am saying that he has not got the ability but on top of that he doesn't have the right attitude or work rate.

If you ask me we should loan him out to Darlo for 12 months.

As for the Alan Shearer issue I think that if we want a team that can compete in the CL we need someone to replace Shearer. This is not a dig at Shearer as I think hes a fantastic player but he can't be put in the same category as Henry, Berkamp, Van Nistleroy, Owen. However if all we want to do is get into Europe then I think he will be valuable at the club for another season.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

Jim, were you at Boro at the beginning of the season? That was the most sublime performance I've seen in years from a Toon player. For this reason alone, plus the fact that he has won all sorts of accolades in France, I believe he is a top notch player. Things clearly aren't ace for him at present and that needs addressing but Bernard, as demonstrated when he was found out against Crystal Palace and Peterborough, isn;t in the same technical league.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

The issue is how to get Shearer's ego out of the way. While he can limp without falling over he will view himself as worthy of a place. (See last season and those stupid injections). He believes he is the best, cos he once was, and he is totally committed to the cause. He can see he is as good as say Cort and Shola therefore he should play ahead of them. As mentioned above we get the catch 22 situation of lack of match fitness with SHola and an exhausted Shearer with no one match fit to replace him.

The issue is for Robson to let Shearer know he won't play 90 minutes a game again this season. If this is too hard then the key summer signing is not a left back as I believe, but a classy centre foward. A centre forward good enough for Shearer to not get the hump when they are picked ahead of him, or rotated in at Shearer's expense. Then we can move on. Shearer can start to play 60% of the games and will last longer.

As GB mentioned Shearer doesn't commit himself any more. His lack of pace (even in the first few minutes of a game) saddens me. When Bellamy gets away he has to hold the ball up while Shearer lumbers in. Last week when Shola got away it wasn't quite so bad cos Shola isn't as fast as Bellamy, but still Shola was too fast for him.

We are discussing the issue now, it may not be the end of the world at the moment but it may well be in a year's time when he has slowed even further. Somehow we have to have a succession planning for him, for the rest of this season though, we should be playing him for no more than 70 minutes per game with Cort/Shola/Chopra taking his place either as subs or as starts. We also need to know whether they are good enough, this should be the opportunity to find out.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

Didn't the borough play with 10 men for most of the match ? If not then I will take your word for it that he has had an amazing game as I wasn't at the match. I suppose this challenges my statement that Robert doesn't have the ability. As this Borough match would suggest that he can do it, but never does. I am certainly not convinced, but wether he has got the abiliy or not is going to be down to personal opinion. I have seen over 50% of our matches from the ground and then all televised away matches and not once said "Robert was excellent." Nearly all of them I have said that he was terrible. I am convinced that Bernard should be there instead of Robert and will be until he gets a porper chance and fails. I can only judge on memories. I remember a great goal from Bernard when he was Subbed on late at a game at St James's. I remember a few occasions where he cut in behind a right back to square the ball across the box. I remember tackles and running back towards defence. And it is of course solid fact that Bernard is more commited, works harder and is better at winning the ball back. I can't remember feeling frustrated with Bernard. When I compare these very few memories of Bernard to the Many memories of Robert I can only see one option. Dougal, you picked out 2 games where you thought Bernard didn't shine. Therefore he shouldn't be given another chance. Well WTF happens every week with Robert? I could name 25 games where Robert has been terrible yet he keeps getting more and more chances. Bernard should be given just a fraction of the chances Robet has had then we can see what he can do. 2 scrappy cup games where the team didn't play particularly well is not enough to judge Bernard on. Whereas we can make a fair asessment on Robert because he's played nearly all of our games.

I'm not saying Bernard is the answer. I just don't feel that he's been given a good enough chance. And from what I've seen of Bernard, I've been very impressed.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

If Robert is so awful, why do opposing teams consistently put 2-3 players on him when he gets the ball?

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

Good point Ciara. Although I am guilty of starting this thread and I am still seething at his performance, he is a marked man as far as defenders are concerned.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

Jim, those weren't games where Bernard didn't shine: they were games where he didn't cut it against lower division opposition. I'm not saying that Bernard shouldn't be given a chance. I'm just saying that we are deluding ourselves if we think he is technically the player that Robert is. If work and industry were everything, why was everyone kicking their own arses with glee when Barton left?

The fact of the matter is that PSG fans are still wailing about him being sold. He was French Player of the Season and PSG's highest scorer. We saw from Troyes that the French league isn't quite the Mickey Mouse league we'd like to think it is. We ought perhaps to bear this in mind.

Personally, I think that knackers calling him names at SJP since about October has had an effect on him. Which is why he has played better away from home. He PERSONALLY won us the game at Highbury and was responsible for about 6 of our first goals of the season. As I say, we could stand wondering whether it's us.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

PS. Jim, regarding 25 games, are you really sure about that? I mean, I accept that it's just your opinion, but 25 is a lot of games.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

I am not palming Robert's poor form onto Alan Shearer, it couldn't be further from it.

Andy Cole and Sheringham didn't talk at Man Utd, which is not getting on in a big way, but they formed a great partnership and scored a lot of goals. Nobody blamed Cole for this, and nobody blamed Sheringham for this.

Robert has obviously got a typical French personality, he has always been the best footballer at school etc and been the star player.

The comment about Shearer / Robert was just a side issue to be honest, it got brought up on here in the past. I don't believe, even if they don't get on, that it should be a problem, as they are both being paid 30k a week and should be professional about it.

The thing that gets on mine with Robert is that he really tries when he's in possession, but doesn't when he's not. If he doesn't think he can beat his man, fair enough but he'll hold onto the ball well enough and is strong on the ball. If he loses it though, that's it, he gives up, although to be fair Nobby was like that for 2 seasons.

It is a problem for us at the moment, and one that we need to sort out. Bobby Robson is extremely fortunate in having Bernard as a bargaining tool to get the best out of Robert. If Robert was to leave I am sure Bernard could do a pretty decent job for us. I liken him to Trevor Sinclair except with more pace and strength.

Although Robert deserves some criticism for his recent performances, it is a fine line between being sh*te and being world class. As Softie said, what if three of his crosses had been headed in by Shearer and Cort? We'd all be saying, "I don't care if he doesn't track back when he crosses like that"

I am not trying to stick up for Robert here, but I think we ask too much of some players (not particularly Robert to be honest). We want our full backs to be able to defend AND attack. We want our wingers to be able to get forward and cross in, AS WELL as come back and make a last ditch tackle.

I just think it all points towards our need for a proper defensive midfielder playmaker. Rob Lee is now past his best, but imagine a fit Rob Lee in the team yesterday? The number of times I saw O'Brien and Dabizas make great tackles, only to lose the ball after it because there was no playmaker to tidy up the scraps and pass the ball out wide was unbelievable.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

Don't make excuses for him! I have never heard booing when he's on the ball. I sit 5 rows from the front and don't think he could hear a word of what anyone around me says unless a few of them shouted it. I for one have never heard anyone shout omething that he could hear. So I really don't think that the fans are having an impact on his game. I suppose when he looses the ball (all the time) there is sometimes a fustrated sound from the fans but if he can't handle that then he's not cut out for this league.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

Jim, if you really think players can't hear people shouting, then you must think the atmosphere at SJP is better than it is. There was a bloke shouting from the back of the Gallowgate at Given last week and I think they probably heard it in Gateshead. Furthermore, I rather gathered from your comments after the Leeds match that it was more than a few lads shouting at him. In any event, I heard distinct booing in the Bolton match.

The truth is that people were criticising Robert 25 games ago (when he still was quite new) - presumably you agree with that statement? It wasn't fair to criticise him then but people did.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

25 games is maybe an exaggeration but I don't think it's far off, as I can only remember seeing him play well once. I want Robert to become a succes as much as any of you. I think that maybe my idea of Robert having a successful game is different to a lot of you.

Dougal mentioned that Robert set up 6 goals out of 5 games (or something like that) at the start of the season.

Now if Robert had put a great ball through to Cort last night which resulted in a goal. It wouldn't have changed things for me. I would still have considered him to of had a BAD game. So maybe this is where our differences in opinion over Robert come from. I tend to look at players over 90 minutes, and if I'm honest don't take much note of statistics like assists etc.. So maybe he is more valuable to us than I realise.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

I missed the Bolton match so that explains the boong thing. I can't remember if people started complainig abut LR 25 games ago but I think it was after a few poor home performances from him that i heard complaints, but nothing that he would hear. Ater the Leeds match I mentioned fans around me all detesting Robert and they still do. They are vocal about it but not to the point of booing. And it certainly isn't enough for him to hear. I don't think his poor performances can be blamed on the fans.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

I think the problem with Robert is primarily his body language. He looks like he doesn't give a toss therefore he mustn't. Chrissie Waddle standing slump shouldered with hands on hips was the same, a useless waste of space, allegedly. Robert does cover back in a way Solano never dreamed of before Xmas. Since he has been in the side Distin has been allowed to get forward cos Robert covers.

I still think it comes down to a critical mass of good players. I think if Bellamy had played last night instead of Robert, say, then we would have still struggled cos Liverpool would have been able to put 2-3 players on him and it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference as we didn't have enough other quality players. Liverpool looked good going forward cos they had lightning pace in Owen adn Anelka and a big presence on the left in Heskey. Hughes couldn't go and help Nobby or Jenas because he had defenisve duties. If we'd had Bellamy and Dyer playing that would be different. Hamman and Murphy would have been made to play deeper and their threat negated.

We couldn't play as a team cos we didn't have enough good players so we ended up looking poor. Whether any of blame Robert, or Shearer, or Speed doesn't really matter cos they were all collectively weakened by the loss of our two best players.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

You have a good point Macbeth.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

Aye Macbeth.

I am a bit worried about this discussion. Some of us seem ready to throw the man off a cliff because he seems disinterested at times and has had some bad games. Would it be an idea to give him a year or so before making him WANT to leave?

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

We should get Duff.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

is attitude is better than Marcelino's

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

Touche, MacB. :-)

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

When we went 2 goals down LR really started trying - he'd been hammered so many times and not got owt from the Smoggy ref that he was looking depressed.

For the last 30 minutes he WAS involved - besides the crosses mentioned above he also played many line balls for Distin (normally for CB as well). Few of them went out.

Stick with him.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

Sorry, Jim, I disagree. The players probably do know when the fans are on their back. If Bobby Robson can gauge the atmosphere to such an extent that he normally takes Robert off with someone else who has been playing well so Robert won't be booed, you can bet your life the players know it, too. Mika, that's my concern, too.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

You do actually hear more on pitch level than when you're sat in the stands. The general mood of the crowd or certain segments can be felt.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

Lynda started the thread by saying "What the fcuk is going on in that lad's head?" That is the kind of thing I'm hearing. Nothing more. Robert doesn't hear that. I didn't realise people were booing, of course this will affect him but the booing is only recent and he's been crap all season.

Anyway this shouldn't even be an issue. How you cope mentally is also part of your overall game.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

How the hell can you say Robert has been crap all season?

If we were to win the league this season, it would be in no small part down to Robert, who set the ball rolling.

Bellamy by himself in a crap team doesn't work. (This is basically what Macbeth is on about I think) We have seen that in evidence at Coventry. Robert by himself in a crap team doesn't work either. Put them together, with Dyer and Jenas etc etc and there are too many good players to not cause problems. Early season, Bellamy played more to the left than he has done for the last few months. Is this why Robert has been awful recently? I have seen him play a few passes that didn't come off but you could see the intention. With Bellamy there I am sure they would have been world class defence splitting passes a quarter of the time, but instead they are a waste of the ball. It's a fine line between success and failure.

I've got to go now, I'll probably post more later

-- Anonymous, March 09, 2002

Jim, saying he has been crap all season is just wrong - he set up or scored something like all our our fitst seven goals. I'll admit that he has been off on occasions but you are ignoring some tremendous things (eg. like basically winning us the Spurs and Arsenal away games). Criticism is one thing, plain bias is another.

-- Anonymous, March 09, 2002

Gone right off the point. Never mind the crap all season. Thats just my opinion. The real point of my last post was to say that A few fans shouting at him is no excuse for his bad performances because he gave bad performances at the start of the season.

-- Anonymous, March 09, 2002

Sorry, Jim, this all a matter of opinion. You obviously will give no quarter to Robert and I'm giving no quarter to the wankers who abuse him.

If he scores tonight, will you cheer?

-- Anonymous, March 09, 2002

But he didn't give bad performances at the start of the season. I honestly can't believe that his recent drop in form has blinded you to the brilliance of the first few months of his Newcastle career.

I kid you not, if we didn't start like we did, confidence could have fallen, fans would have looked for a scapegoat (probably Bellamy if we weren't doing well and he had the reputation) and we could have been in a far far worse position than we are now.

If I was an outsider looking in, maybe a West Ham fan or something like that, I would have to say Newcastle fans are a bunch of moaners. 4th in the league and in the quarter finals of the cup with a confident team that everyone in the country likes. Even the two recent defeats can't hide the fact that we are doing fantasticly well, yet some of us still feel the need to moan continuously about the slightest things.

Sure, Robert's issue is worth talking about, but it is minor compared with the achievement of this season. Let's not forget that we would have struggle to beat Arsenal and Liverpool with a full team.

Look on the bright side for once, if I had woken up from a coma and came on here to see how we were doing I would think we'd been relegated by the negativity being spurted out.

-- Anonymous, March 09, 2002

YBR:

"I know what the mood in London is. Now I would appeal to our own supporters to get behind their team and roar the club to victory. I want to see them out of their seats every time we push forward and I want to hear them applauding every positive thing we do.

"With the commitment of my players and the passion of the crowd we may well claim the victory that this club so desperately needs."

When your manager is appealing for support when we have done so well this season, I think I'd have to agree with Paul.

-- Anonymous, March 09, 2002

Guess we've all gotten so used to moaning over recent seasons, it's hard to break the habit. Plus it seems the more success we have, the more we want. Greedy, us. ;-)

Still Bobby does have a point, particularly with the crowd at the matches. Jim, you may think a few moaners don't matter, but it does. It's infectious, and added to 'just a few' around other parts of the ground begins to add up. That feeling does translate to players on the pitch every bit as much as the feeling of the crowd encouraging them.

-- Anonymous, March 09, 2002

And amazingly, one tosser wouldn't back down over his criticism of Robert, even after he scored. If people are going to criticise heavily when they play bad, then they also need to praise heavily when they play good. You can't have it both ways.

Take Jim for example. Heavily critical of Robert recently, perhaps over the top, but in the match reports thread he is full of praise for our £10m Frenchman - that's what I like to hear.

-- Anonymous, March 09, 2002

If you don't stand up for any player in a black and white shirt when they score, you aren't a supporter. End of. That bloke should go down to Wearside and see if the players there suit him better. Bastardo.

-- Anonymous, March 10, 2002