....in say Mint minus condition? Thanks in advance,

-- sparkie (sparkie@mailcity.com), March 04, 2002

Answers

Can't tell you out of my head... This evening I'll check out all my books at home. Then there's the small Hove booklet with all prices in it.

Sure hope you get a good deal. Anywhere!

Mike

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), March 04, 2002.

Sparkie, sorry I didn't jot this down earlier. Just in case you haven't already read these, here are a few findings on prices etc...

"M4 Black Paint"
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=005G pL

"How many Leica M4 body finishes are there?"
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=006K mj
 

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), March 04, 2002.

I see them go for around $2000 if it is trashed, and $4000 if pristine. IMO neither of those are "good" prices for what you are getting. But I want one anyway too, and just can't seem to get myself pull the money trigger!

Good luck!

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), March 04, 2002.

Sparkie, JackSparkie, Jack, looking at Shintaro 's web site and the glowing reports he receives, it may be better to buy a nice chrome M4 and send it to him for a $500 paint job.

There are an awful lot of reasonably priced near mint chrome M4's out there. A newly painted Shintaro M4 should be possible for around £1200 (US$1750).

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), March 04, 2002.

Sorry, I seem to have 'morphed' you both together!

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), March 04, 2002.

Sparkie. I assume you are talking about an original factory painted black paint M4, of which about 5,000 were made. Make sure (absolutely sure) the camera is on the Leica list (which can be found in any standard reference) as being factory black painted. Privately painted jobs are not worth much more (if anything) than the corresponding chrome versions.

Most M4 black paint cameras were used by professionals (or the US military) and are found in well used condition, with different degresws of paint worn off, revealing the underlying brass. These cameras usually go for about $ 2500 or so. If you find a camera in true SB mint- (not what many eBayers call mint-, which is usually a lesser grade), that is uncommon and may run $ 4000 or so. A true mint example (these now are well into the rare category) will go in the range of $ 5000 (maybe more if the box and Warranty card are there).

This is an item which is uncommon but not really rare per se in user condition, but is very rare in pristine condition. These cameras were made at a time before there were very many Leica collectors, so few were preserved in collector type condition.

The other thing I can tell you is that a subset of black paint M4s were sent back to the factory years later and factory restored or reconditioned. Some of these may have black chrome parts, since black paint parts were no longer in stock. Reconditioned black paint M Leicas still sell for a considerable premium, but you should not pay as much for a factory restored camera as an original, never retouched version.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), March 04, 2002.